GC Contenders in 2011

[Tank Engine]

I completely agree with this: Contador was a machine in the Giro, if he would have raced like that in the Tour, he would have won by 3 minutes at least. He was untouchable in the Giro. I have to say his tour performance impressed me quite a bit. It A) made him look more human, and B) showed his quality as a competitor. He never gave up, and attacked until the end.

I do think Contador picked probably the worst year to attempt the Giro-Tour double; both were climbing heavy. If the Giro had not been such a crazy hard course and the Tour had more TT kms, Contador would have had a much better chance. He could not have picked a worse year to attempt the double I think. I think he's capable of it still. I do think he is almost the same caliber as Pantani.

Agree with most of this. Contador is almost the same caliber as Pantani, i.e. slightly better . Marco might possibly have been able to outclimb Bertie, but Bertie's TT and overall consistency would certainly put him ahead.

As for my top 10 (based on something like the 2011 Tour route and top form)

1. Contador
2. Evans
3. Schleck the Younger
4. Scarponi
5. Nibali
6. Froome
7. Cobo
8. Schleck the Elder
9. Sanchez
10. Wiggins

 

[Zoncolan]

Umm Andy Schleck came pretty close to Evans in the Tour.

True, but he only showed anything on 1 stage (if you don't count the lame 2 secs gain in the Pyrenees), whereas Evans was there during the whole Tour.

 

[c&cfan]

True, but he only showed anything on 1 stage (if you don't count the lame 2 secs gain in the Pyrenees), whereas Evans was there during the whole Tour.

i would say that andy was a mini pantani and that evens was a mini armstrong.

 

[gustienordic]

Agree with most of this. Contador is almost the same caliber as Pantani, i.e. slightly better . Marco might possibly have been able to outclimb Bertie, but Bertie's TT and overall consistency would certainly put him ahead.

As for my top 10 (based on something like the 2011 Tour route and top form)

1. Contador
2. Evans
3. Schleck the Younger
4. Scarponi
5. Nibali
6. Froome
7. Cobo
8. Schleck the Elder
9. Sanchez
10. Wiggins

No Voekler? Have to say, Voeckler's performance climbing in the Tour was quite amazing. It was almost purely on guts. I would say

1. Contador
2. Evans
3 Andy
4. Scarponi
5. Froome
6. Nibali
7. Voeckler
8. Sanchez
9. Cobo
10. Frank

I didn't include Wiggins because I think if he would have helped more, Froome would have won the Vuelta. If he had acted as a domestique, they would have had a better chance.

 

[The Hitch]

No Voekler? Have to say, Voeckler's performance climbing in the Tour was quite amazing. It was almost purely on guts. I would say

1. Contador
2. Evans
3 Andy
4. Scarponi
5. Froome
6. Nibali
7. Voeckler
8. Sanchez
9. Cobo
10. Frank

I didn't include Wiggins because I think if he would have helped more, Froome would have won the Vuelta. If he had acted as a domestique, they would have had a better chance.

Sanchez easily beats Voeckler and Frank Schleck, unless you assume he is going to lose 1.30 in a crash again.

That one there is pretty clear from watching the Tour.

Which moves us on to Froome Nibali and Scarponi. I think Scarponi this year was stronger than Samu but Nibali and Froome were not. Samu was really strong, unfortunately we didnt get to see just how far it could take him, for obvious reasons.

 

[c&cfan]

Sanchez easily beats Voeckler and Frank Schleck, unless you assume he is going to lose 1.30 in a crash again.

That one there is pretty clear from watching the Tour.

Which moves us on to Froome Nibali and Scarponi. I think Scarponi this year was stronger than Samu but Nibali and Froome were not. Samu was really strong, unfortunately we didnt get to see just how far it could take him, for obvious reasons.

i don't know about you, but i am tired of people underrating samuel. He is year after year climbing with the best or even outclimb them. He is year after year in the top ten, getting stronger each year. Year after year, something bad happens to him at the tour but he never stops fighting and does amazing stages. Year after year is pal mares gets bigger and greater. Year after year, he is underrated.

Seriously, one on one, there's anyone out there besides contador and july andy, more consistent and dangerous (GC wise) than samu? i will understand if someone says evans, but deep inside, that 1.30min means a lot to my personal opinion. however, even if someone says evans and menchov there's no one else better than samu. why do people keep underrating him?ignorance?

 

[Altitude]

1. Contador
2. Evans
3. A. Schleck
4. Scarponi
5. Cobo
6. Nibali
7. Froome
8. Wiggins
9. F. Schleck
10. J. Rodriguez

Voekler isn't even top 15

 

[c&cfan]

1. Contador
2. Evans
3. A. Schleck
4. Scarponi
5. Cobo
6. Nibali
7. Froome
8. Wiggins
9. F. Schleck
10. J. Rodriguez

Voekler isn't even top 15

another one...

do you know who got screwed and has been outclimbing evans in pretty much any race in recent years? (even in this tour edition). yes, the olympic champion, the KOM winner, the one (or two) stage winner, yes.. that's right.

 

[The Hitch]

i don't know about you, but i am tired of people underrating samuel. He is year after year climbing with the best or even outclimb them. He is year after year in the top ten, getting stronger each year. Year after year, something bad happens to him at the tour but he never stops fighting and does amazing stages. Year after year is pal mares gets bigger and greater. Year after year, he is underrated.

Seriously, one on one, there's anyone out there besides contador and july andy, more consistent and dangerous (GC wise) than samu? i will understand if someone says evans, but deep inside, that 1.30min means a lot to my personal opinion. however, even if someone says evans and menchov there's no one else better than samu. why do people keep underrating him?ignorance?

Its simple. Doesnt speak English. Hell Samu doesnt even speak French.

Thats why hell never be rated.

 

[Altitude]

another one...

do you know who got screwed and has been outclimbing evans in pretty much any race in recent years? (even in this tour edition). yes, the olympic champion, the KOM winner, the one (or two) stage winner, yes.. that's right.

Get over it. He wasn't that good this year

 

[cineteq]

Its simple. Doesnt speak English. Hell Samu doesnt even speak French.

Thats why hell never be rated.

Yeah blame it on whatever. How about he wins a GT for a change?

Btw, Contador doesn't speak English either

 

[The Hitch]

Yeah blame it on whatever. How about he wins a GT for a change?

Btw, Contador doesn't speak English either

Which would explain why Cadel after winning 1 TDF is rated higher than Contador and his 3 TDFs.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yeah blame it on whatever. How about he wins a GT for a change?

Btw, Contador doesn't speak English either

All 3 GTs had a TTT in them this year. How's Samu meant to win a GT when the organisers are so clearly anti-Euskaltel?

 

[gustienordic]

All 3 GTs had a TTT in them this year. How's Samu meant to win a GT when the organisers are so clearly anti-Euskaltel?

That is a good point, but it seems that people enjoy watching TTTs; Whatever the majority of people want to see in a GT will generally happen to improve exposure and people watching it.

I have to say in response to c&cfan, that Samu does have some of the worst luck out there in terms of GTs. His climbing has been quite impressive for the last few years, and his TT in the Tour was incredible this year. I personally didn't rank him as high because I wasn't rating the riders based on how strong they were, if I did, Samu would be 3rd or 4th.

 

[Ferminal]

Vuelta was "special" this year. Power to weight Cobo and Froome topped all comers.

That's what happens when you have 2000-3000m of climbing in a stage as opposed to 4000-5500m.

 

[cineteq]

All 3 GTs had a TTT in them this year. How's Samu meant to win a GT when the organisers are so clearly anti-Euskaltel?

You're funny. Do you want to file a formal complaint? LOL!!

 

[richo36]

Can people stop talking up froome and cobo!!!!! They rode a 2 week GT that featured two types of stages, Flat for 140km than a short up hill finish or the mountain stage which was flat for 120km then a mountain at the end. Yes they rode well but they arent even close compared to some other riders at the giro and tour. samu for instance. we are talking form here, so can you really say cobo or froome would of beat samu of the tour (if there was no TTT)

Also i think if contador rode the tour in the same form as he rode the giro in he would of won it by whatever he beat andy by in the TT by (plus 20-30 secs). Everyone else would of been a couple minutes down.

To rate everyone is hard though. Its defantly contador then evans but after that its really what you rate higher. i.e where they finished overall or what they did. Good example of that is cobo and froome.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Its simple. Doesnt speak English. Hell Samu doesnt even speak French.

Thats why hell never be rated.

It is not surprising that English speaking journalists would rate English speaking riders because most of the readers of sites like Cyclingnews are from Eglish speaking countries. Spanish cycling media would talk up Spanish speaking riders because of most of their readers or viewers are people who speak Spanish. Samu is such a victim tho.

 

[airstream]

Although you may not like it its true. Contador is by far the strongest GT rider of our generation and when he loses to the likes of Cadel Evans and Andy Schleck by 5 minutes, something is very very wrong.

Life is tough. I know its hard to accept, but it is the truth.

And actually there is talk about for example Gadret vs Rolland or Scarponi vs Voeckler or Cobo vs Nibali etc.

So no, its not all about Contador.

Did someone objected to you that Contador is not the strongest rider of generation?? Or do you just hate it when someone doubts that he can drop everyone, because he promotes your sport?! The question is how to estimate his Giro perfomance. I see that also rather as a distortion, the matching conditions in some way than an indication that he could win by 1h if he'd wanted.

 

[greenedge]

1. Contador Giro
2. Evans TDF
3. Andy TDF
4. Cobo Vuelta
5. Froome Vuelta
6. Contador TDF
7. Voeckler TDF ( great ride )
8. Scarponi Giro
9. Wiggins at Dauphinie if only because he proved something. Who knew what could have happened at TDF/ Vuelta if not injured/ lacking race fitness
10. Nibali Giro

 

[The Hitch]

Did someone objected to you that Contador is not the strongest rider of generation?? Or do you just hate it when someone doubts that he can drop everyone, because he promotes your sport?!

Where is the emotion in my post? Objected, wtf, i am just telling it like it is.

Read my post, and maybe instead of using an online translator try asking a friend who does speak English to help you out this time.

Particularly the bit a few posts back where I politely asked you not to start or finish every post, regardless of the recipient, by telling people they are biased. Its annoying and I will start reporting it.

I do not objected to Contador not strongest rider of generation, whatever that means.

I said he was the strongest and would win if on form.

Just like if Cavendish loses a sprint, or Tony Martin misses out of the top 5 in a flat time trial, or Gilbert is beaten in a hill top finish, or Cancellara is weak in a cobbles classic, something is also wrong.

These are the best riders in their discipline in our sport.

In climbing and stage races its Contador.

And if he loses something must be wrong.

Because when everything is right, he is clearly better than the opposition.

Thats the way it is. "Objected" has got nothing to do with it.

It is not surprising that English speaking journalists would rate English speaking riders because most of the readers of sites like Cyclingnews are from Eglish speaking countries. Spanish cycling media would talk up Spanish speaking riders because of most of their readers or viewers are people who speak Spanish. Samu is such a victim tho.

As progressive and out of this world an idea as this sounds, I prefer unbiased coverage.

 

[crapna]

1. Bottle (Tour de Suisse)
2. Bottle (USA Pro Challenge)
3. Bottle (Tour of Utah)

 

[BM1979]

Its simple. Doesnt speak English. Hell Samu doesnt even speak French.

Thats why hell never be rated.

Geez you spew some garbage

 

[auscyclefan94]

As progressive and out of this world an idea as this sounds, I prefer unbiased coverage.

The fact the you want unbiased coverage is a very progressive idea which won't happen. We all have our own biases and the fact that people are more likely to support people or things that are similar to them causes them to look more favourably upon that person in comparison to someone who is not similar to them. The English speaking media used to look and in some cases still do look more favourably upon Armstrong than Contador because of being Caucasian and an English speaking person. Spanish media are going to look more favourably on Spanish riders. The problem is when bodies that are required to be unbiased show support or leniency towards people who have the same nationality or speak the same language is that they are not fulfilling their role properley. This is not dissimilar to how government officials backed someone because of them being the same nationality even though they had tested positive. There are times when bias is natural and has to be accepted but there are other times when it can't be. In the media it can be, in the legal system it can't.

Sorry for drifting off topic.

 

[c&cfan]

The fact the you want unbiased coverage is a very progressive idea which won't happen. We all have our own biases and the fact that people are more likely to support people or things that are similar to them causes them to look more favourably upon that person in comparison to someone who is not similar to them. The English speaking media used to look and in some cases still do look more favourably upon Armstrong than Contador because of being Caucasian and an English speaking person. Spanish media are going to look more favourably on Spanish riders. The problem is when bodies that are required to be unbiased show support or leniency towards people who have the same nationality or speak the same language is that they are not fulfilling their role properley. This is not dissimilar to how government officials backed someone because of them being the same nationality even though they had tested positive. There are times when bias is natural and has to be accepted but there are other times when it can't be. In the media it can be, in the legal system it can't.

Sorry for drifting off topic.

your posts are becoming more and more annoying. how hypocrite...