GC Power Ranking

[tobydawq]

Guys lets not argue. I am happy we are now arguing if Rogla is third or second. At the beginning of the season he was for example listed at the bottom of top 10 by most experts and "experts" lists.

And there is still more to come in regards to stage racing. So currently i am happy with the trend. As for the true skeptics. For them it doesn't matrer anyway. If Rogla wins Vuelta or not. They have it figured out already.

Who wouldn't have had him in top 4 a year ago?

I am not a true skeptic by the way, I really hope he wins the Vuelta. I was also pleased that he won the Giro but he was not convincing to me.

 

[topcat]

This thread started out in a reasonable manner and took all of 6 minutes to descend into the abyss. Cycling Forum is on a roll baby.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

This thread started out in a reasonable manner and took all of 6 minutes to descend into the abyss. Cycling Forum is on a roll baby.

As is the case for quite literally every discussion on Roglic in which Abi partakes, unfortunately. Rather problematic that one poster single-handedly makes reasonable discussion of one of the biggest names difficult to impossible for everyone else...

 

[Tim Cahill]

The Evenepoel/Roglic people are a lot livelier than the Pogacar/Vingegaard crews.

It's like whenever Contador turned up to a race, criticise the guy online even slightly and about 10 women would emerge from the shadows and start going for the jugular, he had that non-threatening handsome Iberian look.

 

[Red Rick]

What you care to explain what this means to someone who isn't inside your head?

You can say Evenepoel is a better GC rider than Hindley no problem, but then citing the 2022 Vuelta as definitive proof is so dumb to me I just wanna say Hindley cause Evenepoel keeps going home with the sniffles every Giro.

I feel like I see a lot of bad arguments for positions that are quite normal.

 

[jaylew]

The OP ranking is pretty good as things stand right now. You could maybe quibble places 6-12 a bit but it's solid as it is.

 

[hayneplane]

What three riders are you asking about?

In this moment of time, I would put others before him. The ones I said. It doesnt mean I will in the future.

This was just a current ranking. Not discussing scenarios or if so and so happens.

The 3 you were talking about in your first sentence

 

[dercuforever]

If all were to be 100% on a TDF :
Vingegaard
Pogacar
Roglic
Remco (could be 3rd or 6th, depends of Vuelta)
Thomas
Hindley
Mas
Almeida
A.Yates
Carapaz

Impossible to really be 100% sure except for Ving who is 1st.
Without bad day Pog would be clear 2nd.
Remco has to prove himself (falls in 2022 and covid this year)
All others are very close.
Tao or Ayuso could be there too.

 

[bNator]

@CyclistAbi: I also think Roglic might score better result in this year s TDF than Pog, but that’s only because Vinge broke him. If it was just Pog and Rog without Vinge breaking Pog while he is trying to compete with him, Pog should win against Roglic comfortably I think. You need to take race dynamics into account…

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

If Tao had completed the Giro, it’s possible he would be higher, but he crashed out before the mountains started. It’s hard to put him over anyone with proven results.

Carapaz has been a stage hunter in recent GTs; all others in top 10 placed.

Ayuso could be in for a precipitous jump.

 

[Boehmand]

Assuming the OP doesn't just relate to GTs, but all stage races on the calender where the traditional GT GC riders take part, my power ranking looks a bit different below top 4:

1. Vingegaard
2. Pogacar
3. Roglic
4. Evenepoel
5. Almeida
6. A. Yates
7. Hindley
8. Thomas
9. Bilbao
10. Skjelmose

 

[SHAD0W93]

I agree with the top 4 in that order from the OP. After them it’s a lot more open on how GT, stage race, and placings are rated by the member. I think over the last three years someone like Almeida has progressed significantly in GT and stage racing though Hindley or Carapaz for example have a higher GT ceiling due to winning.

Based on how they would do in both GT and stage racing I think I would have:
1. Vinge
2. Pog
3. Roglic
4. Evenepoel
5. Hindley
6. Almeida
7. Adam
8. Thomas
9. Mas
10. Rodriquez

If it’s just GTs we are talking about I’d have Thomas higher and Carapaz on the list but it’s hard to say if Thomas can keep reaching that level again and again. Sooner or later age will catch up.

@Peyroteo94
And now back to the subject of this thread. Stage racing in regards to the season so far. Not past season and not future seasons. Here i will put Roglič ahead of Pogačar and in my opinion that is subjective.

As has been said, that’s not the subject of this thread but a power ranking. I suggest you look up what power rankings are, so you can understand the thread what is being discussed. We didn’t all read the thread wrong.

Your opinion is subjective and is heavily favored towards your favorite rider while ignoring the objective facts. We all know if the results were swapped you’d be saying Roglic is higher than Pog still.
Both riders have rode in 3 stage races, these are their time difference ahead of second, third, and tenth overall, in Pog’s case for the Tour just his time difference on third and tenth:
Pog difference over second place: 2’11”
Roglic’s difference over second place: 38”
Pog difference over third place: 6’29”
Roglic’s difference over third place: 3’49”
Pogacar’s difference over tenth place: 23’54”
Roglic’s difference over tenth place: 14’12

Pogacar was far and away better than everyone bar Vinge at the Tour. He smoked everyone else over all the terrain. Roglic smoked everyone in one TT at the Giro, otherwise relied on his brains and sprint to win. That’s why everyone’s power ranking is how it is with the top 4 being the same. Which ironically if you weren’t so blinded by Roglic would make you have Pog over him as well.

If this was a classics power ranking I wouldn’t be surprised if you rated Roglic higher than Pog and Evenepoel.

Death, taxes, and @CyclistAbi missing the point of threads.

I'm just seeing what take triggers me the hardest into being a flaming hot contrarian.

Valverde > Nibali

 

[CyclistAbi]

Nah. I am not convinced. By the end of the season some of you might just have to admit it. That is this season might have been more favorable to Roglič, when it comes to stage racing, compared to Pogačar.

And furthermore when we are talking about power rankings in regards to stage racing. In last half a decade i would put Roglič on top. There are other cyclists with their moments. Still Roglič was constantly doing things like Third Giro / First Vuelta or Second Tour / First Vuelta ... On top of winning a large amount of week long stage races. So give me a break when saying Pogačar is the power metric this year. Finishing second at the Tour and winning PN ... He is in my opinion more into classics anyway. Then into stage racing.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Nah. I am not convinced. By the end of the season some of you might just have to admit it. That is this season might have been more favorable to Roglič, when it comes to stage racing, compared to Pogačar.

And furthermore when we are talking about power rankings in regards to stage racing. In last half a decade i would put Roglič on top. There are other cyclists with their moments. Still Roglič was constantly doing things like Third Giro / First Vuelta or Second Tour / First Vuelta ... On top of winning a large amount of week long stage races. So give me a break when saying Pogačar is the power metric this year. Finishing second at the Tour and winning PN ... He is in my opinion more into classics anyway. Then into stage racing.

Shocker, you’re not convinced but if it was the other way around you would.

Maybe Roglic will, but this is again a power ranking on what they’re going to do in the upcoming races, not what they’ve done in the past. Pogacar destroyed the competition, Roglic didn’t bar one stage. Take off your blinders, read the posts again, heck even look up what a power ranking is because again everyone else is wrong but you.

 

[tobydawq]

Nah. I am not convinced. By the end of the season some of you might just have to admit it. That is this season might have been more favorable to Roglič, when it comes to stage racing, compared to Pogačar.

And furthermore when we are talking about power rankings in regards to stage racing. In last half a decade i would put Roglič on top. There are other cyclists with their moments. Still Roglič was constantly doing things like Third Giro / First Vuelta or Second Tour / First Vuelta ... On top of winning a large amount of week long stage races. So give me a break when saying Pogačar is the power metric this year. Finishing second at the Tour and winning PN ... He is in my opinion more into classics anyway. Then into stage racing.

The question, as has been stated approximately 10 thousand times, is who would be the favourite if they met up in a Grand Tour right now. My point that Pogacar would beat Thomas by more than 15 seconds was brilliant.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@SHAD0W93

Please explain to me on how did Pogačar destroy the competition this season (so far) in regards to stage racing and on how Roglič didn't.

 

[SHAD0W93]

@SHAD0W93

Please explain to me on how did Pogačar destroy the competition this season (so far) in regards to stage racing and on how Roglič didn't.

Look at the post above your first post today.

I agree with the top 4 in that order from the OP. After them it’s a lot more open on how GT, stage race, and placings are rated by the member. I think over the last three years someone like Almeida has progressed significantly in GT and stage racing though Hindley or Carapaz for example have a higher GT ceiling due to winning.

Based on how they would do in both GT and stage racing I think I would have:
1. Vinge
2. Pog
3. Roglic
4. Evenepoel
5. Hindley
6. Almeida
7. Adam
8. Thomas
9. Mas
10. Rodriquez

If it’s just GTs we are talking about I’d have Thomas higher and Carapaz on the list but it’s hard to say if Thomas can keep reaching that level again and again. Sooner or later age will catch up.

As has been said, that’s not the subject of this thread but a power ranking. I suggest you look up what power rankings are, so you can understand the thread what is being discussed. We didn’t all read the thread wrong.

Your opinion is subjective and is heavily favored towards your favorite rider while ignoring the objective facts. We all know if the results were swapped you’d be saying Roglic is higher than Pog still.
Both riders have rode in 3 stage races, these are their time difference ahead of second, third, and tenth overall, in Pog’s case for the Tour just his time difference on third and tenth:
Pog difference over second place: 2’11”
Roglic’s difference over second place: 38”
Pog difference over third place: 6’29”
Roglic’s difference over third place: 3’49”
Pogacar’s difference over tenth place: 23’54”
Roglic’s difference over tenth place: 14’12

Pogacar was far and away better than everyone bar Vinge at the Tour. He smoked everyone else over all the terrain. Roglic smoked everyone in one TT at the Giro, otherwise relied on his brains and sprint to win. That’s why everyone’s power ranking is how it is with the top 4 being the same. Which ironically if you weren’t so blinded by Roglic would make you have Pog over him as well.

If this was a classics power ranking I wouldn’t be surprised if you rated Roglic higher than Pog and Evenepoel.

Death, taxes, and @CyclistAbi missing the point of threads.

Valverde > Nibali

 

[bNator]

@SHAD0W93

Please explain to me on how did Pogačar destroy the competition this season (so far) in regards to stage racing and on how Roglič didn't.

Compare their respective performances in P-N and Tirreno, for instance. One of them destroyed the competition, the other one won convincingly, but no destruction… In Catalunya, you can’t really say he destroyed Remco and in Giro, well maybe he mentally destroyed Thomas in the end (not likely - remains to be seen) but on the bike - not so much…

Long story short: Pog has been destroying everyone bar Vinge in stage racing this year stage after stage. Roglic didn’t destroy Remco, didn’t destroy Thomas or Almeida, didn’t look like he was going to destroy Tao.

Now as a fan I sure hope he will “destroy” everyone in Vuelta. But claming he has already done so this year requires quite some bias… Unless every victory counts as destruction, of course. But last time I checked, this thread has no Eddy Merckx in its title yet…

 

[Tonton]

I like power rankings, from the OP, up to and including Thomas, it's rock solid in my opinion. Thomas being the A-, he's past his prime but fought like a champion and was so close at Il Giro. Respect to Geraint Thomas.

After that, I could make a case for Adam Yates...I think that Hindley is way too high in your rankings after his Tour fade extraordinaire. I'm so disappointed. Mas is The New Meh for me, he's no special, one of many: Rodriguez, Ayuso, who's younger, there's hope in Spain. Simon had a very good Tour, he deserves consideration. Then, we also have Joao, who is a heck of a rider. Tao is a question-mark to me, I would have him 9th or 10th maybe, not sure.

It's a mess of talent vs. results and we can argue all day long...

By the way, if the biggest stage races matter, if power rankings favor updates vs. past performance, right now, where should Thibaut Pinot be? 5th at Il Giro, 11th at Le Tour. Maybe he's the magic number of all ratings and rankings: 8. Not bad...

 

[CyclistAbi]

@SHAD0W93

In that long answer of yours the insinuation at the end is reveling. You in my opinion mix classics and stage races results when it comes to Pogačar. Likely on why you in addition added Evenepoel to it. So it is you that should remove the classics glasses. And take another look.

 

[CyclistAbi]

The question, as has been stated approximately 10 thousand times, is who would be the favourite if they met up in a Grand Tour right now. My point that Pogacar would beat Thomas by more than 15 seconds was brilliant.

Right now in my opinion Pogi is too empty to even think about a GT yet alone race it.

 

[SHAD0W93]

@SHAD0W93

In that long answer of yours the insinuation at the end is reveling. You in my opinion mix classics and stage races results when it comes to Pogačar. Likely on why you in addition added Evenepoel to it. So it is you that should remove the classics glasses. And take another look.

Did you read what I said, because it sounds like you didn’t. I didn’t once make this about the classics besides stating at the end how far up Roglic’s a** you would be if this was a classic power ranking.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@bNator

But then again Pogačar was destroyed a couple of times too. If we use this term. While i guess using such analogy Roglič just barely hanging on. Like all the time. So that is i guess that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Did you read what I said, because it sounds like you didn’t.

How wouldn't i read it if i pointed you to a paragraph in it.

 

[SHAD0W93]

How wouldn't i read it if i pointed you to a paragraph in it.

Because you have a long, long history of not reading things that are posted and extremely cherry picking things you think proves your point. Which if you actually read what I wrote, you’d know what I was talking about and know that I didn’t mix the point of this thread and classics for a power ranking.

This is what I said, “If this was a classics power ranking I wouldn’t be surprised if you rated Roglic higher than Pog and Evenepoel.”

No where does that mix up the two and con fuddle them.

Death, taxes, and CyclistAbi being lost in the discussion.