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GC Power Ranking

Page 4 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
You have to be pretty damn dismissive of the most recent Tour de France to not have Simon Yates in there.
Let's look at the other options for the places behind the big 4 + Thomas:
Ayuso - didn't race
Hart - didn't race
Almeida - didn't race
Mas - crashed out on day 1
Carapaz - crashed out on day 1
Hindley - was well ahead of him before injuring himself
Rodriguez - would have beaten him without his stage 20 crash in spite of a completely disrupted first half of the season
Adam Yates - beat him

It's really not that impressive of a fourth place (similar to Gaudu's in 2022), and then to add to that he's also more inconsistent than almost anyone listed above.
 
In that case, surely you have Hart ahead of Ayuso?
Far too easy to put Hart having two horrible seasons in a row down to just injury when he was racing most of the time. His 2020 Giro is too long ago to be relevant now, and his 2023 Giro is a big question mark because we hadn't had a battle in the mountains when he crashed out, so he is certainly the hardest to rank. Can see arguments for him being anywhere from 7th to about 13th.
 
Shame on Ayuso for not performing when he was injured!

Seriously, arguing Ayuso shouldn't be top-10 because of his health issue causing him to not get many results now is the same as arguing Roglic shouldn't be top-5 because of all his injuries causing him not to get many results at the end of last season.
I'm just seeing what take triggers me the hardest into being a flaming hot contrarian.

I feel like I see a lot of bad arguments for positions that are quite normal.
Here we go again

I do like the idea of using injuries as the primary excuse while Roglic literally won the Giro despite nursing injuries after a crash.


In reality, for Ayuso there's IMO just too much extrapolation and too many excuses necessary to warrant a very high spot here. He's 2 years into his WT career, and his one top climbing performance wasn't against any world beaters apart from a post COVID Evenepoel who was very clearly not his best. And I'm not a huge believer in giving credit to riders based on future potential when they still have a lot of improvement to do. It's why I laughed at Rodriguez being a podium favorite in the Tour, it's why I laugh at putting Ayuso high up in this list as well

Injury excuses to me become much more plausible when riders have shown that level before.
 
Here we go again

I do like the idea of using injuries as the primary excuse while Roglic literally won the Giro despite nursing injuries after a crash.


In reality, for Ayuso there's IMO just too much extrapolation and too many excuses necessary to warrant a very high spot here. He's 2 years into his WT career, and his one top climbing performance wasn't against any world beaters apart from a post COVID Evenepoel who was very clearly not his best. And I'm not a huge believer in giving credit to riders based on future potential when they still have a lot of improvement to do. It's why I laughed at Rodriguez being a podium favorite in the Tour, it's why I laugh at putting Ayuso high up in this list as well

Injury excuses to me become much more plausible when riders have shown that level before.
If I wasn't looking at injuries for other riders as well, I wouldn't have put Roglic a level above Thomas, nor Hart and Carapaz in the big group around 10th.
 
A power ranking is about what the riders have actually delivered so far, of course judged in the proper context of the performances. Tomorrow's performances will count for tomorrow's power ranking.
Is it though? I think usually a power ranking is all about "if those athletes/teams go up against each other today, who wins?"
Though I admit that concept doesn't work perfectly in a sport where form curves play such a huge role.
 
Is it though? I think usually a power ranking is all about "if those athletes/teams go up against each other today, who wins?"
Though I admit that concept doesn't work perfectly in a sport where form curves play such a huge role.

Yeah, that is what it means. Or, like Greg said, if all the riders set themselves to prepare optimally for a GT a few months down the line, how would the favourites ranking then be?
 
Here we go again

I do like the idea of using injuries as the primary excuse while Roglic literally won the Giro despite nursing injuries after a crash.


In reality, for Ayuso there's IMO just too much extrapolation and too many excuses necessary to warrant a very high spot here. He's 2 years into his WT career, and his one top climbing performance wasn't against any world beaters apart from a post COVID Evenepoel who was very clearly not his best. And I'm not a huge believer in giving credit to riders based on future potential when they still have a lot of improvement to do. It's why I laughed at Rodriguez being a podium favorite in the Tour, it's why I laugh at putting Ayuso high up in this list as well

Injury excuses to me become much more plausible when riders have shown that level before.

Uh, you do know that Ayuso was 3rd in the Vuelta last year, right?
 
You don't think a minute difference on a single climb refutes that they were pretty much equal? As for the final GC difference, my first sentence answered that.
I don't think whether it was a minute or 40 seconds makes much of a difference, no. Roglic clearly couldn't drop Thomas when he tried to the previous days and got dropped pretty badly just 4 days earlier. How much of that was down to injury is pure speculation on our part. And I don't think a single, very unusual TT changes my opinion too much anyway. I don't think Pogacar was a significantly better gc rider than Roglic in 2020 just because Roglic got spanked on LPdBF.
 
I don't think whether it was a minute or 40 seconds makes much of a difference, no. Roglic clearly couldn't drop Thomas when he tried to the previous days and got dropped pretty badly just 4 days earlier. How much of that was down to injury is pure speculation on our part. And I don't think a single, very unusual TT changes my opinion too much anyway. I don't think Pogacar was a significantly better gc rider than Roglic in 2020 just because Roglic got spanked on LPdBF.
If I understand correctly, your reasoning is that since Roglic was only a bit better than Thomas, then Remco must be better than Roglic because his gap to Thomas is bigger than that of Roglic, right? However, we do have an actual direct comparison between Roglic and Remco this year from Catalunya where Roglic was a bit better than Remco as well. So it is just possible that Thomas in his best form is simply a spectacular GT rider and is often underestimated by fans. He was very fgood in last years Tour as well, for instance...
 
If I understand correctly, your reasoning is that since Roglic was only a bit better than Thomas, then Remco must be better than Roglic because his gap to Thomas is bigger than that of Roglic, right? However, we do have an actual direct comparison between Roglic and Remco this year from Catalunya where Roglic was a bit better than Remco as well. So it is just possible that Thomas in his best form is simply a spectacular GT rider and is often underestimated by fans. He was very fgood in last years Tour as well, for instance...
Did I ever compare Remco to Thomas?
 
1. Vineggard
2. Geohegan Hart
3. Pogacar
4. Roglic
5. Evenpoel
6. Adam Yates
7. Juan Ajuso
8. Enric mas
8. Gerant Thomas
9. Joao almida
10. Simon Yates
11. Jai Hindley
12. Carlos Rodriguez
13. Pello Bilbao
14. Mikel Landa
15. David Gaudu
16. Felix Gall
17. Damiano Caruso
18. Thimen Arensemen
19. Superman
20. Ciccone
No Masnada! You're not the real IImaestro99. We have a trespasser!
 
I think we need 8 more threads:
1. Promote your favourite rider
2. Support your local sheriff
3. Answer the question, jerk
4. I’m completely biased but I’m going to pretend I’m so mature and objective
5. I’m going to start an argument with a valid point but I’m going to hurl abuse and go on a mad one so I come out of the argument wrong
6. I’m wired one way and I need to go the other way. Welcome to the Forum
7. A treatise on the Basque influence on professional cycling
8. How did we end up here?
 
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If it's a power ranking then I would understand it basically as a "if all of those riders would race on a median GT course and have a similar preparation window who will beat whom?" Doesn't really work that way in cycling but It's fun. My take:

1. Vingegaard
2. Pogacar
3.Remco
4.Roglic
5. Thomas
6. Hindley
7. A. Yates
8. Ayuso
9. Almeida
10. Mas

The fringe candidates for that list are...

S.Yates - not on the level of his brother, close call against Mas

Hart - without crash probably 5th in that list because of a second Giro win. But hard to rank as he has shown this level just for a really short time in this spring and was nowhere near that since 2020

C-Rod - big talent but I think quite fair to rank him at the moment behind the 10th place

Gall - if we would restart the Tour he could end 4th

Really looking forward to 24 to see if guys like Martinez, Uijtdebroeks and Poole can enter that Top 10.

Guys that are not near making that top10-list (anymore):

Carapaz, Landa, Vlasov, Gaudu
 
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#Prev.Diff.RiderTeamPoints
12▲1VINGEGAARD JonasJumbo-Visma1330
28▲6YATES AdamUAE Team Emirates1157
31▼2EVENEPOEL RemcoSoudal - Quick Step1055
49▲5ALMEIDA JoãoUAE Team Emirates1040
515▲10ROGLIČ PrimožJumbo-Visma900
620▲14LANDA MikelBahrain - Victorious801
73▼4POGAČAR TadejUAE Team Emirates780
85▼3BILBAO PelloBahrain - Victorious750
96▼3HINDLEY JaiBORA - hansgrohe724
1039▲29YATES SimonTeam Jayco AlUla710
1126▲15PINOT ThibautGroupama - FDJ696
1217▲5SKJELMOSE MattiasLidl - Trek675
1313-O'CONNOR BenAG2R Citroën Team665
1418▲4RODRÍGUEZ CarlosINEOS Grenadiers660
1528▲13MAS EnricMovistar Team622
1629▲13GAUDU DavidGroupama - FDJ565
1754▲37GEOGHEGAN HART TaoINEOS Grenadiers535
1825▲7CARUSO DamianoBahrain - Victorious522
19103▲84RUBIO Einer AugustoMovistar Team508
20112▲92GALL FelixAG2R Citroën Team486
21105▲84MOHORIČ MatejBahrain - Victorious485
2231▲9LÓPEZ Miguel ÁngelTeam Medellín - EPM467
2322▼1AYUSO JuanUAE Team Emirates466
2457▲33HAIG JackBahrain - Victorious451
2541▲16VAUQUELIN KévinTeam Arkéa Samsic448
2673▲47JORGENSON MatteoMovistar Team445
2799▲72KUSS SeppJumbo-Visma434
2890▲62CICCONE GiulioLidl - Trek430
2977▲48MAJKA RafałUAE Team Emirates429
3076▲46SHEFFIELD MagnusINEOS Grenadiers407
3140▲9MCNULTY BrandonUAE Team Emirates405
327▼25ARENSMAN ThymenINEOS Grenadiers403
3342▲9URÁN RigobertoEF Education-EasyPost393
3458▲24SCHMID MauroSoudal - Quick Step385
35136▲101VAN WILDER IlanSoudal - Quick Step385
3638▲2LEKNESSUND AndreasTeam dsm - firmenich377
37395▲358GANNA FilippoINEOS Grenadiers375
38249▲211POOLE MaxTeam dsm - firmenich366
39219▲180KÄMNA LennardBORA - hansgrohe365
4085▲45DUNBAR EddieTeam Jayco AlUla365
4137▼4CARTHY HughEF Education-EasyPost361
42145▲103UIJTDEBROEKS CianBORA - hansgrohe360
4316▼27MEINTJES LouisIntermarché - Circus - Wanty356
4423▼21MARTIN GuillaumeCofidis354
4565▲20PIDCOCK ThomasINEOS Grenadiers351
4672▲26KELDERMAN WilcoJumbo-Visma340
4719▼28BARDET RomainTeam dsm - firmenich338
4812▼36THOMAS GeraintINEOS Grenadiers325
4911▼38HIGUITA SergioBORA - hansgrohe320
5075▲25FORTUNATO LorenzoEOLO-Kometa316

Solved.

You're welcome.
 
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Let's look at the other options for the places behind the big 4 + Thomas:
Ayuso - didn't race
Hart - didn't race
Almeida - didn't race
Mas - crashed out on day 1
Carapaz - crashed out on day 1
Hindley - was well ahead of him before injuring himself
Rodriguez - would have beaten him without his stage 20 crash in spite of a completely disrupted first half of the season
Adam Yates - beat him

It's really not that impressive of a fourth place (similar to Gaudu's in 2022), and then to add to that he's also more inconsistent than almost anyone listed above.
  • Simon also crashed at the tour, losing almost exactly the same amount of time as Rodriguez did on the stage he crashed.
  • Hindley was only in front because of a breakaway.
  • Obviously we can't tell where many of these riders such as Mas or even Kuss could have been.
  • 4th in a field that includes Vingegaard and Pogacar makes him second among the humans, behind only another rider who shares his DNA. Hard to argue that the Yates DNA is not top tier GC material in 2023.
The Yates brothers in general are very inconsistent. At some point that does count against your power ranking. But what they showed at the tour this year was convincing. They could have easily won a Vuelta or Giro with that performance and a little luck or a weak field, a la Carapaz and TGH.
 
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