Geert Leinders

[Samson777]

How does Leinders happen to fall within USADA Juristiction?

According to anti doping Denmark, USADA run the case, since they where the first to find a "crime" committed by Leinders. I guess that's the best answer I can give.

 

[blackcat]

Now who is changing the goalposts? This is not about Lance's punishment. I fully agree that his punishment is appropriate. My problem with your argument is that you view Lance as an aberration, while I view him as a direct (albeit extreme) descendant of Eddy Merckx.

it can actually be both. it is a false dichotomy to assert it is opposite ends of a spectrum. it is not.

42x16ss might be a definition of aberration. There will always be a personality type, that holds up one end of the spectrum (survivor fallacy). So Armstrong's psychology, off the bell curve, but he needed a culture and sport like cycling, and the echo chamber that was the peloton, to underwrite, endorse, and encourage said behaviour, and act as an accessory to the crime. So he just inherited the mantle of Le Patron from Hinault, and Merckx , and with his personal psychology, it was a time bomb.

cycling needed Armstrong.

Armstrong needed cycling.

they were peas in a pod and they found their playmate conspirator abettor spouse.

Kik and Anna Hansen were never a match to cycling, the peloton, and the UCI. how could they possibly compete. oh, and Yellow Rose, Austin's premier and foremost gentlemen's club or establishment.

 

[MarkvW]

it can actually be both. it is a false dichotomy to assert it is opposite ends of a spectrum. it is not.

42x16ss might be a definition of aberration. There will always be a personality type, that holds up one end of the spectrum (survivor fallacy). So Armstrong's psychology, off the bell curve, but he needed a culture and sport like cycling, and the echo chamber that was the peloton, to underwrite, endorse, and encourage said behaviour, and act as an accessory to the crime. So he just inherited the mantle of Le Patron from Hinault, and Merckx , and with his personal psychology, it was a time bomb.

cycling needed Armstrong.

Armstrong needed cycling.

they were peas in a pod and they found their playmate conspirator abettor spouse.

Kik and Anna Hansen were never a match to cycling, the peloton, and the UCI. how could they possibly compete. oh, and Yellow Rose, Austin's premier and foremost gentlemen's club or establishment.

I agree with everything except the last paragraph. I don't know much at all about Armstrong's personal life (and don't want to).

 

[blackcat]

Your argument doesn't hold water. You can't make Lance unique without whitewashing the professional peloton.

its more about Lance off the bike.

I dont have a problem with the doping. But he should also not be able to capture the authorities so he can dope with greater impunity if the peloton is riding and competing with some handcuffs on the spectrum of full ***. or the full *** spectrum.

If i need to dope within pharmaceutical half-lives, but Lance can do full ***, this aint competing on an even playing field. And I know doping is never even. But he cant capture the regulatory bodies like Wall Street have done with the SEC. like to hear Harry MArkopolous riff on this, and Michael Lewis to a degree also

 

[blackcat]

I agree with everything except the last paragraph. I don't know much at all about Armstrong's personal life (and don't want to).

facetious MArk. have a laff.

 

[neineinei]

Leipheimer giving evedence against Leinders in the US Postal case is used as reason for the SOL of this case... USADA was very early involved when Rasmussen started talking. Clearly neither UCI nor the Belgians were going to do anything, but what about the Dutch?

The Belgians have taken interest in Boogerd. But what about Menchov? USADA has several statements about him now, and then there is Padova too. No reason to let him get away with two years and 3 laughable TdF disqualifications.

 

[Benotti69]

Leipheimer giving evedence against Leinders in the US Postal case is used as reason for the SOL of this case... USADA was very early involved when Rasmussen started talking. Clearly neither UCI nor the Belgians were going to do anything, but what about the Dutch?

The Belgians have taken interest in Boogerd. But what about Menchov? USADA has several statements about him now, and then there is Padova too. No reason to let him get away with two years and 3 laughable TdF disqualifications.

Are Federations playing games against each other.

 

[Catwhoorg]

How does Leinders happen to fall within USADA Juristiction?

Its a continuation of the investigation that started with Lance. As they 'discovered' the non-analytical evidence (testimony) they get to run with it where ever it goes.

Spelled out in legalise on pages 22-23 of the decision, with the footnote acknowledging that under the revised 2015 code this responsibility would fall to the UCI.

 

[King Boonen]

Good to see him banned, does not look good for Sky.


I've long said that accusing Kerrison of implementing doping at Sky was fairly far-fetched. He worked at British Swimming in a period when they received a huge amount of funding and couldn't even buy a medal. If Sky are running a team doping program then Kerrison has always been more likely to be the decoy while Leinders was the brains.

 

[MarkvW]

Good to see him banned, does not look good for Sky.


I've long said that accusing Kerrison of implementing doping at Sky was fairly far-fetched. He worked at British Swimming in a period when they received a huge amount of funding and couldn't even buy a medal. If Sky are running a team doping program then Kerrison has always been more likely to be the decoy while Leinders was the brains.

I cannot see how Sky could be unaware. If they're that ignorant of what goes on in the sport, then they are too ignorant to implement an honest and successful "marginal gains" strategy.

 

[King Boonen]

I cannot see how Sky could be unaware. If they're that ignorant of what goes on in the sport, then they are too ignorant to implement an honest and successful "marginal gains" strategy.

Not sure why you quoted me?


Unaware of what? Leinders history? Supposed doping in their team? Doping in general?

All of the above?

I've not commented on Sky being unaware of anything, I just said if they were doping then Kerrison was a misdirection and wasn't brought in to dope people as many have suggested in the past.

 

[MarkvW]

Not sure why you quoted me?


Unaware of what? Leinders history? Supposed doping in their team? Doping in general?

All of the above?

I've not commented on Sky being unaware of anything, I just said if they were doping then Kerrison was a misdirection and wasn't brought in to dope people as many have suggested in the past.

I intended no criticism. I agree with you. Sorry.

 

[King Boonen]

I intended no criticism. I agree with you. Sorry.

I didn't think you were criticising

I just wasn't sure what you meant and as you quoted me I thought it better to check first rather than reply based on assumption, no worries.

I do think there is no way Sky could claim not to know about his past, it's ridiculous to say they don't. They wouldn't have known the full extent, but they would have known exactly who he worked for and the accusations floating around.

 

[D-Queued]

I didn't think you were criticising

I just wasn't sure what you meant and as you quoted me I thought it better to check first rather than reply based on assumption, no worries.

I do think there is no way Sky could claim not to know about his past, it's ridiculous to say they don't. They wouldn't have known the full extent, but they would have known exactly who he worked for and the accusations floating around.

Maybe they didn't read the first line on Leinders' resume:

"Well know doping doctor that provides results in cycling"

Dave.

 

[sniper]

I do think there is no way Sky could claim not to know about his past, it's ridiculous to say they don't. They wouldn't have known the full extent, but they would have known exactly who he worked for and the accusations floating around.

listen to this suondcloud.
the two hosts taking the **** out of brailsford/sky for their claim not to have known who leinders was.
https://soundcloud.com/secondcaptains-it-com/cheating-special-leinders-team-sky-russia-belichick

 

[Parker]

listen to this suondcloud.
the two hosts taking the **** out of brailsford/sky for their claim not to have known who leinders was.
https://soundcloud.com/secondcaptains-it-com/cheating-special-leinders-team-sky-russia-belichick

These are the same two hosts that barely mention Rabobank because they are sponsored by Rabobank?

 

[sniper]

These are the same two hosts that barely mention Rabobank because they are sponsored by Rabobank?

who cares about rabobank?

 

[Benotti69]

These are the same two hosts that barely mention Rabobank because they are sponsored by Rabobank?

Dont recall Team Rabobank claiming to be clean and having a ZTP which was a lie?

Also Rabo left the team because of the doping, something Sky seem to have no problem with.......

 

[Dr. Juice]

He should open a website + forum as a training counselor. Ferrari has 53x12. How about mortirolo.bigring.nl ?

 

[oldcrank]

by the way, it's not even clear yet whether the guy is Dutch or Belgian, some media calling him Belgian other Dutch. Crazy.
Let's hope Brailsford's investigation will get to the bottom of this

That is crazy, my friend, everybody knew
everything about him, we are told.

 

[MarkvW]

who cares about rabobank?

Rabo is interesting to me because it was a prominent sponsor waking up and realizing "Hey, this sport is hurting our brand, not helping it." The team also appeared to be organized in its approach to doping--contrary to the lies the 'sport' tried to palm off on us post-Festina.

 

[thehog]

Rabo is interesting to me because it was a prominent sponsor waking up and realizing "Hey, this sport is hurting our brand, not helping it." The team also appeared to be organized in its approach to doping--contrary to the lies the 'sport' tried to palm off on us post-Festina.

Yes, the banking industry was very concerned that cycling might spoil it's reputation

 

[blackcat]

Good to see him banned, does not look good for Sky.


I've long said that accusing Kerrison of implementing doping at Sky was fairly far-fetched. He worked at British Swimming in a period when they received a huge amount of funding and couldn't even buy a medal. If Sky are running a team doping program then Kerrison has always been more likely to be the decoy while Leinders was the brains.

kerrison brought the marginal gains.

remember in LAnce's comeback, he had hired a triathlon coach, an Australian !!! an Australian triathlon coach who K Street and Burson Marstellar Orwelled into a euphemism weasel word "movement specialist".

Armstrong had a movement specialist. And i dont think they were talking bowel movement, just sayin, and Sky had a swimming coach.

Was there a rowing coach anywhere? Kerrison coached swimming in Brisbane no? And at some point in time he had some coaching relationship to Ian Thorpe no?

all so incestuous this doping palava. Instead of Schepisi directing 7 degrees of Separation with Will Smith, he could have directed 3 degrees of Separation with Hein Verbruggen and doping.

 

[blackcat]

I cannot see how Sky could be unaware. If they're that ignorant of what goes on in the sport, then they are too ignorant to implement an honest and successful "marginal gains" strategy.

aggregation of marginal gains.

multiple marginal gains. not just a plural marginal gain qua marginal gains.

cant you see the genius of brailsford.

<emoji for nietzsche abyss quote>

 

[oldcrank]

kerrison brought the marginal gains.

remember in LAnce's comeback, he had hired a triathlon coach, an Australian !!! an Australian triathlon coach who K Street and Burson Marstellar Orwelled into a euphemism weasel word "movement specialist".

Armstrong had a movement specialist. And i dont think they were talking bowel movement, just sayin, and Sky had a swimming coach.

Was there a rowing coach anywhere? Kerrison coached swimming in Brisbane no? And at some point in time he had some coaching relationship to Ian Thorpe no?

all so incestuous this doping palava. Instead of Schepisi directing 7 degrees of Separation with Will Smith, he could have directed 3 degrees of Separation with Hein Verbruggen and doping.

Not true, my friend.