Geert Leinders

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Feb 22, 2014
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sniper said:
what's cunning about hiring a doping doctor?
every proteam has one. some have multiple.
even UCI have a doping doctor who closely informs other doping doctors.
The cunning bit is the not getting caught when you're running a team-wide doping scheme. No? As soon as Leinders is interviewed by a serious talk-show host the game's up.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Ventoux Boar said:
The cunning bit is the not getting caught when you're running a team-wide doping scheme. No? As soon as Leinders is interviewed by a serious talk-show host the game's up.
true, walsh, cookson, zorzoli, british press.
all lining up to catch sky.
 
Feb 24, 2014
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Ventoux Boar said:
The cunning bit is the not getting caught when you're running a team-wide doping scheme. No? As soon as Leinders is interviewed by a serious talk-show host the game's up.
Do the inconsistencies in the Sky stories not perturb you or do you just have blind faith in anything their PR dept spews out?
 
sniper said:
thanks Hog!
and wow...the amount of BS on one single page...chapeau to walsh.
i've seen it before of course, yet i'm baffled again the second time round.
epic.

doesn't that part about TUEs nicely tell us what Sky's word is worth...
garbage.
Yes, Leinders spent a lifetime of injecting young riders with EPO. By he time he got to Sky he was the baron of truth and ethics. He was even schooling the already clean Sky on how to be cleaner. His lifetime ban was because he was too clean.

Believe it or not.
 
Feb 22, 2014
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deeno1975 said:
Do the inconsistencies in the Sky stories not perturb you or do you just have blind faith in anything their PR dept spews out?
The topic is Leinders, specifically.

I don't believe a word Brailsford says. Hiring Leinders makes a mockery of his legendary exceptional management expertise, which is why I find it consistent with the notion that he is, in-fact, clueless. That's the major inconsistency in Sky's story.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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thehog said:
Yes, Leinders spent a lifetime of injecting young riders with EPO. By he time he got to Sky he was the baron of truth and ethics. He was even schooling the already clean Sky on how to be cleaner. His lifetime ban was because he was too clean.

Believe it or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout

A limited hangout, or partial hangout, is a public relations or propaganda technique that involves the release of previously hidden information in order to prevent a greater exposure of more important details.[citation needed]

It takes the form of deception, misdirection, or coverup often associated with intelligence agencies involving a release or "mea culpa" type of confession of only part of a set of previously hidden sensitive information, that establishes credibility for the one releasing the information who by the very act of confession appears to be "coming clean" and acting with integrity; but in actuality, by withholding key facts, is protecting a deeper operation and those who could be exposed if the whole truth came out.[citation needed] In effect, if an array of offenses or misdeeds is suspected, this confession admits to a lesser offense while covering up the greater ones.[citation needed]
 
Mar 13, 2009
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imagine if Rupert was not the sponsor and they could not always lead the story and have editors call off their naught noisy nosy investigative journalists alliterations

I think I have condensed it to two elements.

William Randolph Hearst as your sponsor. They will not wish to make their jobs (journalists) suplus to needs when jounralists already hemorrhaging

And, denying yourself one's identity. Leinders entire self and identity have founded such a person and psychology, and now you expect him to deny his validity and worth after 50 years? psychology 101. there is no road to damascus at 50yo.

And with Hearst as sponsor, imaging if Leinders went genius like Floyd (in terms of blowing the place sky high, not the stage 16 in 2006). How he would be smeared.

think about it, think about how Assange and Snowden and Manning and even Aaron Schwartz got it. The media would assassinate Leinders
 
Mar 13, 2009
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blackcat said:
any admission may mean a professional disbarring/disqualification from his medical guild. yes fuentes practises, but he just gets senoritas in stirrups and stares and pudendas and papsmears all day, and its spain.

lowlands would have a higher burden
Ventoux Boar said:
He's keeping the lid on cheating at Sky in order to protect his untarnished professional reputation? Not your strongest point, if I may say so.
no, that is not how you perform a pap smear. do you wish me to demonstrate?

any ob-gyns IN DA HOUSE?

IN DA HOUSE!
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Ventoux Boar said:
The cunning bit is the not getting caught when you're running a team-wide doping scheme. No? As soon as Leinders is interviewed by a serious talk-show host the game's up.
they were no stupid and never ran a TEAM WIDE program. Why risk it with 27, when you can select the Tour team, or 3 on the Tour, or only 1.

strawman deflection misdirection.

look, there's a wombat!
 
Feb 22, 2014
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blackcat said:
they were no stupid and never ran a TEAM WIDE program. Why risk it with 27, when you can select the Tour team, or 3 on the Tour, or only 1.

strawman deflection misdirection.

look, there's a wombat!
Clinic logic: Sky running a team-wide program facilitated by famous doping Dr Leinders, is a 'straw man' argument deployed to deflect from the obvious truth that they only dope a chosen few.

Don't be daft. It was obviously too risky allowing doping supremo Leinders to operate freelance, enhancing all sorts (inc JTL by order of Brailsford?). Much smarter to 'hide the celebrity doping mastermind in plain sight' on Sky payroll, and double-down on zero-tolerance.

Have I got it now?
 
May 26, 2010
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Ventoux Boar said:
The topic is Leinders, specifically.

I don't believe a word Brailsford says. Hiring Leinders makes a mockery of his legendary exceptional management expertise, which is why I find it consistent with the notion that he is, in-fact, clueless. That's the major inconsistency in Sky's story.
So Brailsford the so called mastermind is now clueless?

So who do you attribute Sky's success to if not Brailsford?

Or the original doctor they had didn't have a clue about a decent doping program so they had to get someone who did, hence hiring Leinders.
 
Feb 22, 2014
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Benotti69 said:
So Brailsford the so called mastermind is now clueless?

So who do you attribute Sky's success to if not Brailsford?

Or the original doctor they had didn't have a clue about a decent doping program so they had to get someone who did, hence hiring Leinders.
It was ever thus, discounting that graduate diploma from Tesco Area Manager school. You appear to have swallowed the media narrative: what Le Carré calls the legend. Outside the controlled shelf-stacking track environment, his management skills have been exposed.

Absent a couple of remarkable individual performers (wiggins/Froome) and that 2012 Rogers/Porte/EBH train, they've mismanaged resources horribly. 2013 Tour was effectively froome solo. 2014 Giro and Tour they were nowhere.

Where has this dominant team been since July 2012?
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Benotti69 said:
So Brailsford the so called mastermind is now clueless?

So who do you attribute Sky's success to if not Brailsford?

Or the original doctor they had didn't have a clue about a decent doping program so they had to get someone who did, hence hiring Leinders.
Even some of the dumbest members of the propeloton (I'm talking guys who'd be stacking shelves at Tesco if it weren't for procycling) knew who Leinders was, what he'd been 'building' at Rabo.
Yet Sir David didn't?
High octane trolling by Ventoux Boar.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Ventoux Boar said:
Clinic logic: Sky running a team-wide program facilitated by famous doping Dr Leinders, is a 'straw man' argument deployed to deflect from the obvious truth that they only dope a chosen few.

Don't be daft. It was obviously too risky allowing doping supremo Leinders to operate freelance, enhancing all sorts (inc JTL by order of Brailsford?). Much smarter to 'hide the celebrity doping mastermind in plain sight' on Sky payroll, and double-down on zero-tolerance.

Have I got it now?
Bot-logic: make thinks look bizarrely complicated, whereas in fact they are pretty straightforward.

Common sense, average Joe-logic: min. 18:15 - 19:15
https://soundcloud.com/secondcaptains-it-com/cheating-special-leinders-team-sky-russia-belichick
 
Feb 22, 2014
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sniper said:
Even some of the dumbest members of the propeloton (I'm talking guys who'd be stacking shelves at Tesco if it weren't for procycling) knew who Leinders was, what he'd been 'building' at Rabo.
Yet Sir David didn't?
High octane trolling by Ventoux Boar.
Nobel Laureate Brailsford hired Leinders despite the certainty that zero-tolerance would be exposed as a fraud, since even the dumbest in the sport knew Leinders was Rabo's doping mastermind. Nothing in this hiring decision suggest Brailsford is on top of his brief, whether he's running a clean team, or not.
 
May 26, 2010
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Ventoux Boar said:
Nobel Laureate Brailsford hired Leinders despite the certainty that zero-tolerance would be exposed as a fraud, since even the dumbest in the sport knew Leinders was Rabo's doping mastermind. Nothing in this hiring decision suggest Brailsford is on top of his brief, whether he's running a clean team, or not.
Now you are trolling, hiring Mick Barry, Servais Knaven, Sean Yates, Mick Rogers et al exposed the hypocrisy that ZTP was.

Brailsford has been in cycling a long time. Tesco managers do not get to the top of their profession.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Ventoux Boar said:
Nobel Laureate Brailsford hired Leinders despite the certainty that zero-tolerance would be exposed as a fraud, since even the dumbest in the sport knew Leinders was Rabo's doping mastermind. Nothing in this hiring decision suggest Brailsford is on top of his brief, whether he's running a clean team, or not.
no Nobel laureate, just another DS in need of results.
 
May 26, 2010
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Ventoux Boar said:
....obfuscation.........

Absent a couple of remarkable individual performers (wiggins/Froome) and that 2012 Rogers/Porte/EBH train, they've mismanaged resources horribly. 2013 Tour was effectively froome solo. 2014 Giro and Tour they were nowhere.
Wiggins and Froome were the team leaders. The team works for them. Did you not see the seasons of 2012 and 2013?


Ventoux Boar said:
Where has this dominant team been since July 2012?
2012 Season
1st overall WT
One-day victories 5
Stage race overall victories 8
Stage race stage victories 34

2013 Season.
2nd overall WT
Stage race overall victories 8
Stage race stage victories 25

really crap seasons......
 
Mar 13, 2009
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thehog said:
This is what you're looking for...



hoggy we heard this embroglio palava in 2002ish when JV had a closed eye from a wasp and he with Roger Legeay decided not to take cortisone to suppress the swelling <emoji for swollen eyes roll>
 
Feb 22, 2014
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Benotti69 said:
Wiggins and Froome were the team leaders. The team works for them. Did you not see the seasons of 2012 and 2013?

2012 Season
1st overall WT
One-day victories 5
Stage race overall victories 8
Stage race stage victories 34

2013 Season.
2nd overall WT
Stage race overall victories 8
Stage race stage victories 25

really crap seasons......

Did you watch the 2013 Tour, won by Froome in spite of his team? A useless performance that Brailsford followed in style in 2014: 9th WT, 0 GT stages. That's zero stage wins for a team of well-resourced dopers, and according to you, run by a management genius who made the remarkable transformation from Tesco Area Manager of the month, to sports immortality.

Where's the evidence that Brailsford is more than a mediocre manager who got lucky?
 
Ventoux Boar said:
Did you watch the 2013 Tour, won by Froome in spite of his team? A useless performance that Brailsford followed in style in 2014: 9th WT, 0 GT stages. That's zero stage wins for a team of well-resourced dopers, and according to you, run by a management genius who made the remarkable transformation from Tesco Area Manager of the month, to sports immortality.

Where's the evidence that Brailsford is more than a mediocre manager who got lucky?
so when they perform poorly they aren't doping and when they dominate like in 2012 they aren't doping either - awesome
 
Feb 22, 2014
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Digger said:
so when they perform poorly they aren't doping and when they dominate like in 2012 they aren't doping either - awesome
Even the best drugs in cycling can't overcome masterly motivation from Sir Dave, in his pomp.
 
May 26, 2010
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Ventoux Boar said:
Did you watch the 2013 Tour, won by Froome in spite of his team? A useless performance that Brailsford followed in style in 2014: 9th WT, 0 GT stages. That's zero stage wins for a team of well-resourced dopers, and according to you, run by a management genius who made the remarkable transformation from Tesco Area Manager of the month, to sports immortality.

Where's the evidence that Brailsford is more than a mediocre manager who got lucky?
Brailsford built a world class cycling team that has won 2 TdFs. Not too many done that. I believe he did it with doped riders, like the rest, but if it was that easy how come a guy like Lefevere has not won a TdF, neither has Marc Sargeant, Saronni, Madiot etc.....

Tesco area managers should get into cycling. It appears they are imminently qualified to win TdFs......:rolleyes:
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Ventoux Boar said:
Even the best drugs in cycling can't overcome masterly motivation from Sir Dave, in his pomp.
Riis teaching Brailsford a lesson or two about motivation:
“When Alberto went out, I told them that it’s going to be a long two weeks if we don’t have the motivation to continue and do something,” Team Manager Bjarne Riis said. “We agreed and shook hands on it with [owner] Oleg Tinkov.”
Sky general manager David Brailsford also tried to motivate his riders with a pep talk after Chris Froome abandoned and Richie slipped out of the overall classification. His remaining cyclists have made the escapes, like Vasil Kiryienka today, but he has not seen the same spark as Riis has.
ouch...guess 2014 just wasn't his year, was it.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/tour-de-france/tinkoff-saxo-enjoying-success-third-week-tour-de-france-130928
 
Digger said:
so when they perform poorly they aren't doping and when they dominate like in 2012 they aren't doping either - awesome
Isn't your line the opposite? i.e. when they perform poorly they are doping (or did a bad bag as was suggested during the Pyrenees collapse in 2013) and when they are dominating like 2012 they are doping. Even more awesome.
 

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