Geert Leinders

[ray j willings]

hoggy............i'm asking on the basis that i do NOT know..........it is not

my place to prove something i'm not party to

leinders is NOT just a doping doctor .........did he train in that field? has

he not written books on sports performance etc?

it is fair to state leinders did the job at team sky he was paid to do.......

that seems very different to rabobank

Mark L

it is fair to state leinders did the job at team sky he was paid to do"
Yes he did.

And when any pro rider paid huge amounts of money for the services of Ferrari they were also just getting advice about their cadence etc etc

 

[Ventoux Boar]

any admission may mean a professional disbarring/disqualification from his medical guild. yes fuentes practises, but he just gets senoritas in stirrups and stares and pudendas and papsmears all day, and its spain.

lowlands would have a higher burden

He's keeping the lid on cheating at Sky in order to protect his untarnished professional reputation? Not your strongest point, if I may say so.

 

[blackcat]

The zero tolerance was only a cover though wasn't it. Pretty clear that they had riders/staff with obvious histories. The media didn't really question or do any digging around this issue though.

the biggest cover is the sponsor.

murdoch is the modern day William Randolph Hearst. Yes, he only owns about 8% of Sky with A class shares and poison pills and share registry in vermont, and yes NewsCorp, one of the arms when they separated them, only owns about 30% of Sky, or BSkyB, and yes, I think the Italian Sky even contributes some cash to the sponsorship, but News own even less a share of Italian Sky...

point is, he is the most powerful media mogul in the West, and a story will not get out unless another rival breaks it, and they will find it difficult to get the story with all the deflection and misdirection.

Its ironic, Walsh was integral to bringing Armie down, aint he Sunday Times which is News? I think Rupert got The Times off Conrad Black when he got bighoused. And OConnell and Reid Albergotti were integral and they are WSJ which Rupe has had about 6 years, paying overs for because of his ego.

I think I had a point somewhere in there.

if i didnt you can shuffle off then

 

[thehog]

hoggy............i'm asking on the basis that i do NOT know..........it is not

my place to prove something i'm not party to

leinders is NOT just a doping doctor .........did he train in that field? has

he not written books on sports performance etc?

it is fair to state leinders did the job at team sky he was paid to do.......

that seems very different to rabobank

Mark L

What job was he paid to do at Sky?

And my feeling is not that you don't know but more you don't want to know.

 

[blackcat]

He's keeping the lid on cheating at Sky in order to protect his untarnished professional reputation? Not your strongest point, if I may say so.

any admission, would only bring opprobrium not approbation. He would have a degree of ego, and this would only bring him negative editorial. Why further the story.

His inside knowledge is fungible, but the pain of whistleblowing is also a reserse side of the ledger.

So on his resignation from Sky, he would have negotiated with Brailsford, what his knowledge about keeping doping secret was worth, less the pain it would cost if he whistleblows, and any other professional costs which would incur. Brailsford would have those up his sleeve. Its like a Floyd negotiation, Armstrong obviously wanted to win the negotiation and did not offer Floyd enough to deter him going ahead with the qui tam. Here, Brailsford would be aware that Sky could be hurt, and how much Leinders needs to receive so everyone is still happy and they all have their knighthoods.

its pretty simple really.

GBP and professional and social/status cost.

ask yourself, why we only get the odd Daniel Ellsberg?

Now with the interwebs, we get Chelsea Manning, Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, Aaron Shwartz, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Floyd really did not blow any secret high. Everyone within a 5 degree of the pro peloton, and other pro sports, new Armstrong was not legit

If Leinders talks, it might be talking against his own raison d'etre and identity and lifeforce, it may be a self denying enterprise. You stare into the mirror, and kill yourself with words.

 

[Benotti69]

............team sky can do as they choose ............racing will go on

.............feel free to speculate.......don't expect others to accept

assumptions as fact

Mark L

feel free.........to ignore....the blindingly obvious........to anyone with.......

......half a brain.........excellent doping doctor.........hired by richest.........

.......pro cycling team........to weigh riders..........and administer creams...

....to saddle sores..........does not compute..........we know the history of......

....pro cycling.....and we know.......anti doping........run by......Leinder's

friend.............Dr Zozo.......is a joke.........so when we......join all these

lovely....dots.......we get Sky are dopers.........just like every other pro

team....in modern times...........joining dots is fun........

 

[ebandit]

me

it's not about me..............although i'm hoping to find out the truth as

much as anyone

in time we will................for now speculate away and enjoy your cycling

Mark L

 

[sniper]

............team sky can do as they choose ............racing will go on

.............feel free to speculate.......don't expect others to accept

assumptions as fact

Mark L

i do feel free to speculate, no need to tell me that.
my expectations don't really matter, people here make up their own minds.

 

[thehog]

it's not about me..............although i'm hoping to find out the truth as

much as anyone

in time we will................for now speculate away and enjoy your cycling

Mark L

That's silly. You're invested because you posted on a doping forum then ran away when the discussion began. Just read the posts, no need to be part of a discussion by dipping a toe in the water and walking away.

It's fairly obvious you're trying to stop the discussion.

If a team hires a doping doctor, history tells you they hired him for his doping expertise and not his book writing skills in Dutch and Flemish.

 

[sniper]

any admission, would only bring opprobrium not approbation. He would have a degree of ego, and this would only bring him negative editorial. Why further the story.

His inside knowledge is fungible, but the pain of whistleblowing is also a reserse side of the ledger.

So on his resignation from Sky, he would have negotiated with Brailsford, what his knowledge about keeping doping secret was worth, less the pain it would cost if he whistleblows, and any other professional costs which would incur. Brailsford would have those up his sleeve. Its like a Floyd negotiation, Armstrong obviously wanted to win the negotiation and did not offer Floyd enough to deter him going ahead with the qui tam. Here, Brailsford would be aware that Sky could be hurt, and how much Leinders needs to receive so everyone is still happy and they all have their knighthoods.

its pretty simple really.

GBP and professional and social/status cost.

ask yourself, why we only get the odd Daniel Ellsberg?

Now with the interwebs, we get Chelsea Manning, Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, Aaron Shwartz, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Floyd really did not blow any secret high. Everyone within a 5 degree of the pro peloton, and other pro sports, new Armstrong was not legit

If Leinders talks, it might be talking against his own raison d'etre and identity and lifeforce, it may be a self denying enterprise. You stare into the mirror, and kill yourself with words.

good post, but unfortunately you're talking to a boar here.

i still haven't seen either ventoux boar or ebandit address the fact that Brailsford gets arsey (as PArker succintly called it) when journos try to learn more about the background of Leinders' appointment.

IF Leinders didn't do anything illegit, Sir Dave should welcome those questions and open up, in order to put an end to all the wild speculation which is currently ongoing even in the british press(!)
Instead he gets all arsey and calls editors to complain.
oddd...

 

[the sceptic]

That's silly. You're invested because you posted on a doping forum then ran away when the discussion began. Just read the posts, no need to be part of a discussion by dipping a toe in the water and walking away.

It's fairly obvious you're trying to stop the discussion.

If a team hires a doping doctor, history tells you they hired him for his doping expertise and not his book writing skills in Dutch and Flemish.

Sky could have hired Ferrari, and the bots would still go on about "no evidence" "open mind" blah blah.

I have come to learn that it's pointless to argue with the likes of eBoar, either they are trolling or only a positive test can change their mind so whats the point.

 

[thehog]

Sky could have hired Ferrari, and the bots would still go on about "no evidence" "open mind" blah blah.

I have come to learn that it's pointless to argue with the likes of eBoar, either they are trolling or only a positive test can change their mind so whats the point.

I'm not sure even a positive test would do it. Back in the Lance days he had a positive, years later he had 6 EPO positive tests. The LanceBots still talked it away.

There's no difference here. Sky hired a doping Doctor, Froome had an express TUE signed off in dubious circumstances for a banned product and still it played down as nothing.

Lance was a half way decent bike rider prior to all that. Froome couldn't even ride in a straight line!

 

[Ventoux Boar]

good post, but unfortunately you're talking to a boar here.

i still haven't seen either ventoux boar or ebandit address the fact that Brailsford gets arsey (as PArker succintly called it) when journos try to learn more about the background of Leinders' appointment.

IF Leinders didn't do anything illegit, Sir Dave should welcome those questions and open up, in order to put an end to all the wild speculation which is currently ongoing even in the british press(!)
Instead he gets all arsey and calls editors to complain.
oddd...

I mean, who knows, but some combination of the following seems reasonable

- hormones
- wolves are at the door, his cunnning plan nearly exposed, must divert questions away from Leinders, discredit yet another disgruntled dismissed employee
- concern at widespread scoffing at his reputation for attention to detail and management excellence.

Dave is the product of Tesco Area Manager school and lacks a little imagination. He has a reputation to protect.

 

[sniper]

I mean, who knows, but some combination of the following seems reasonable

- hormones
- wolves are at the door, his cunnning plan nearly exposed, must divert questions away from Leinders, discredit yet another disgruntled dismissed employee
- concern at widespread scoffing at his reputation for attention to detail and management excellence.

Dave is the product of Tesco Area Manager school and lacks a little imagination. He has a reputation to protect.

what's cunning about hiring a doping doctor?
every proteam has one. some have multiple.
even UCI have a doping doctor who closely informs other doping doctors.

 

[sniper]

Brialsford, one day he calls Leinders "brilliant", the other day it's the greatest mistake he ever made.
Can't get his story straight.

 

[the sceptic]

Brialsford, one day he calls Leinders "brilliant", the other day it's the greatest mistake he ever made.
Can't get his story straight.

I think this is my personal favourite. Sky hired Leinders to teach clean riders how to avoid doping!

 

[thehog]

I think this is my personal favourite. Sky hired Leinders to teach clean riders how to avoid doping!

Clanger.

He's certainly isn't the brightest guy going around.

 

[SundayRider]

Saying that Lenders was hired for normal medical reasons is a bit like a man caught visiting a brothel and saying to his wife that he only went for a hug and a chat. Just not believable.

 

[Benotti69]

Saying that Lenders was hired for normal medical reasons is a bit like a man caught visiting a brothel and saying to his wife that he only went for a hug and a chat. Just not believable.

Great analogy. Love it, only went for a hug and a chat...

All the Sky boys need really is a hug and a chat

 

[ray j willings]

If Leinders was not doing anything wrong then Brailsford should have not sacked him and instead should have defended him and explained what he was doing as it is legit.
What sort of manger sacks someone when they have done nothing wrong.
Nice to see Brailsford defending the innocent
Does he sack everybody on hearsay?

 

[sniper]

If Leinders was not doing anything wrong then Brailsford should have not sacked him and instead should have defended him and explained what he was doing as it is legit.
What sort of manger sacks someone when they have done nothing wrong.
Nice to see Brailsford defending the innocent
Does he sack everybody on hearsay?

well, there was this zero tolerance policy...
then there wasn't..
and then there was again...
#consistency.

See what Steve Peters had to say about Leinders and consistency:
(relevant paragraph starts with "Peters insists that..." and ends with "consistency")
https://books.google.pl/books?id=CZ...K&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=consistency&f=false
(sorry, not skilled enough to get a snapshot of that paragraph on here, would be nice though)

 

[thehog]

well, there was this zero tolerance policy...
then there wasn't..
and then there was again...
#consistency.

See what Steve Peters had to say about Leinders and consistency:
(relevant paragraph starts with "Peters insists that..." and ends with "consistency")
https://books.google.pl/books?id=CZ...K&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=consistency&f=false
(sorry, not skilled enough to get a snapshot of that paragraph on here, would be nice though)

This is what you're looking for...

 

[sniper]

This is what you're looking for...

thanks Hog!
and wow...the amount of BS on one single page...chapeau to walsh.
i've seen it before of course, yet i'm baffled again the second time round.
epic.

doesn't that part about TUEs nicely tell us what Sky's word is worth...
garbage.

 

[Benotti69]

well, there was this zero tolerance policy...
then there wasn't..
and then there was again...
#consistency.

Sky's ZTP doesn't extend to Servais Knaven..........as obvious EPO winner if ever there was

 

[Benotti69]

This is what you're looking for...

They got Leinder's consistency alright, Wiggins 8 month long peak with a TdF win and Olympic TT Gold