General Doping Thread.

[Sciatic]

Contaminated kitchen?! Ok, a new one for the excuses thread maybe?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-golds-after-testing-positive-for-banned-drug
Twenty-three Chinese swimmers tested positive for the banned drug TMZ months before the Tokyo Olympics in 2021, it has emerged. However, they were cleared to compete at the Games after the World Anti-Doping Agency accepted an explanation from the Chinese authorities that the kitchen at their hotel was contaminated.

The story, which has only come to light following a joint investigation by the German TV channel ARD and the New York Times, has led to widespread criticism of Wada from senior figures in anti-doping, with one calling the case “shocking” and another a “devastating stab in the back to clean athletes”.

TMZ or trimetazidine as it's known was also in the 15 year old Russian figure skater at the Olympics in Beijing.
more at https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/trimetazidine-drug-works-banned-olympics-rcna15945

As I posted in the “top excuses” thread, WADA and/or IOC faced a too-big-to-fail problem and caved because of political or brand-image motivations.

 

[Bolder]

Here's the NYT take: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/20/world/asia/chinese-swimmers-doping-olympics.html

The IOC is the most corrupt international agency, of any kind, by far. Only vying with FIFA in the sports realm. They make the UCI look like Spanish inquisitors.

Though, at this point, I honestly feel bad for Chinese athletes, sort of like the East Germans in the 70s and early 80s. They're forced to go along with whatever bizarre doping regimen that the CCP's scientists can gin up. I still remember the joy of playing sports when I was a kid, and they'll never really experience that.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Here's the NYT take: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/20/world/asia/chinese-swimmers-doping-olympics.html

The IOC is the most corrupt international agency, of any kind, by far. Only vying with FIFA in the sports realm. They make the UCI look like Spanish inquisitors.

Though, at this point, I honestly feel bad for Chinese athletes, sort of like the East Germans in the 70s and early 80s. They're forced to go along with whatever bizarre doping regimen that the CCP's scientists can gin up. I still remember the joy of playing sports when I was a kid, and they'll never really experience that.

The chinese recruiting system at a young age is just brutal and inhuman.

 

[Slavique Nuke]

What I find most ridiculous about IOC corruption is that they allow NBA and NHL players to compete. These guys don't even have to act to pass or fake anti-doping tests. They are just simply on PEDs all year long.

 

[shadowrider]

And recently it was announced that dozens of Chinese swimmers were caught using the same doping product before the Tokyo Games. Chinese sports leaders claimed that "an infection" was to blame. Or was it contaminated food or supplements ? The result ? Those dozens of Chinese swimmers were allowed by UCI and WADA to compete in Tokyo winning several (golden) medails. Hallucinant. And once again proof that certain top sports and certainly the Olympic Games have little to do with fair sport, but everything to do with politics and sponsor interests.

 

[Sciatic]

And recently it was announced that dozens of Chinese swimmers were caught using the same doping product before the Tokyo Games. Chinese sports leaders claimed that "an infection" was to blame. Or was it contaminated food or supplements ? The result ? Those dozens of Chinese swimmers were allowed by UCI and WADA to compete in Tokyo winning several (golden) medails. Hallucinant. And once again proof that certain top sports and certainly the Olympic Games have little to do with fair sport, but everything to do with politics and sponsor interests.

Indeed. Did you notice the Chinese doping coverup was the topic of the previous posts?

 

[Rob5091]

L*Equipe reporting on false EPO positive ...if UCI have a problem testing for EPO then that opens a whole can of worms .
https://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur...vrai-dedommagement-pour-sa-suspension/1462743

Same story in English
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...ping-agency-to-court-after-epo-false-positive
French rider Gauthier Navarro has been cleared following over a year suspended, and is looking to receive a severance following the damage.

The story was reported by French news outlet L'Équipe who state that Navarro and his lawyer are looking to take the French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) to court. This is because Navarro was suspended in 2021 for a positive EPO test following the under-23 Ronde de l'Isard race, and after 15 months of suspension the case was finished without an apology or justification.

 

[Rob5091]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...mely-concerned-by-chinese-swimmers-doping-row
Aquatics GB, the governing body of British swimming, has said it is “extremely concerned” by the case of 23 Chinese swimmers who tested positive for a banned substance but were allowed to compete at the Tokyo Olympics.
...
“Given we are on the eve of the 2024 Summer Paris Olympic and Paralympic Games, athletes and the public desperately need and deserve confidence in the global anti-doping system headed into these Games,” Usada said."

Yeah, the French will not be happy with this coming out now.

 

[Sciatic]

L*Equipe reporting on false EPO positive ...if UCI have a problem testing for EPO then that opens a whole can of worms .
https://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur...vrai-dedommagement-pour-sa-suspension/1462743

Same story in English
https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...ping-agency-to-court-after-epo-false-positive
French rider Gauthier Navarro has been cleared following over a year suspended, and is looking to receive a severance following the damage.

The story was reported by French news outlet L'Équipe who state that Navarro and his lawyer are looking to take the French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) to court. This is because Navarro was suspended in 2021 for a positive EPO test following the under-23 Ronde de l'Isard race, and after 15 months of suspension the case was finished without an apology or justification.

My French isn’t good enough to understand nuanced points in the L’Equippe article.

In one the linked articles it states: “After being suspended, he [Navarro] carried out other tests which revealed atypical results.” So I can’t assume from that if the AFLD test test was “wrong” or if his own testing revealed a way to challenge the result. For instance if his blood r-EPO level was just above detection limits in the official tests but not in the independent tests. But AFLD could have simply gotten it wrong.

Mistakes do happen. The problem is that in the era of other busted athlete saying it was contamination from tainted supplements, Kitchen counters, steaks, burritos, grandpa’s medicine, etc, etc., a single genuine mistake heaps more doubt on the testing and anti-doping officials.

 

[yaco]

My French isn’t good enough to understand nuanced points in the L’Equippe article.

In one the linked articles it states: “After being suspended, he [Navarro] carried out other tests which revealed atypical results.” So I can’t assume from that if the AFLD test test was “wrong” or if his own testing revealed a way to challenge the result. For instance if his blood r-EPO level was just above detection limits in the official tests but not in the independent tests. But AFLD could have simply gotten it wrong.

Mistakes do happen. The problem is that in the era of other busted athlete saying it was contamination from tainted supplements, Kitchen counters, steaks, burritos, grandpa’s medicine, etc, etc., a single genuine mistake heaps more doubt on the testing and anti-doping officials.

The same thing happened to the Australian runner Peter Bol in 2023. A sample tested positive for EPO, but the B sample was atypical result, so he was cleared. There are concerns in the way labaratories interpret EPO results.

 

[Sciatic]

The same thing happened to the Australian runner Peter Bol in 2023. A sample tested positive for EPO, but the B sample was atypical result, so he was cleared. There are concerns in the way labaratories interpret EPO results.

But that’s like being cleared on a technicality: both A and B samples have to agree to conclude there’s a violation. That makes sense. But that doesn’t prove someone wasn’t doping: it could be that the A sample was correct and the B sample was mishandled.

I don’t know people assume that if an athlete was cleared by a lab problem or because a contamination story was accepted then it means that athlete is cleans.

 

[Rob5091]

But that’s like being cleared on a technicality: both A and B samples have to agree to conclude there’s a violation. That makes sense. But that doesn’t prove someone wasn’t doping: it could be that the A sample was correct and the B sample was mishandled.

I don’t know people assume that if an athlete was cleared by a lab problem or because a contamination story was accepted then it means that athlete is cleans.

The bigger picture is that if the French have a problem deciding if someone has or has not taken EPO, then we're soon back to the "Lance Era". Maybe guys are micro dosing,we don't know.

 

[Nick2413]

The bigger picture is that if the French have a problem deciding if someone has or has not taken EPO, then we're soon back to the "Lance Era". Maybe guys are micro dosing,we don't know.

Wouldn’t a false positive be at least better than the other way around though? Or is it the loss of credibility that’s the problem?

 

[yaco]

But that’s like being cleared on a technicality: both A and B samples have to agree to conclude there’s a violation. That makes sense. But that doesn’t prove someone wasn’t doping: it could be that the A sample was correct and the B sample was mishandled.

I don’t know people assume that if an athlete was cleared by a lab problem or because a contamination story was accepted then it means that athlete is cleans.

WADA is reviewing how they analyze EPO tests after the Bol case. It' snot being cleared on a technicality and it shows problems with the analysis of samples.

 

[Rob5091]

Wouldn’t a false positive be at least better than the other way around though? Or is it the loss of credibility that’s the problem?

Gauthier Navarro, the French guy in question, was suspended for 15 months before hearing that he was not to be punished, but suspending the guy is basically punishing him as he could not race and now is stigmatized for a false positive. It would be better to let the guy race until they can prove doping.
Now he's suing the French Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) so they get to look like fools for a false positive, and must pay up some compensation for the suspension.
The "Bol Case" has highlighted this EPO testing problem and WADA are, not surprisingly, eager to say that new super-duper extra high-tec testing will solve the problem.

see https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/aust...esting-changes-after-bol-disaster/ar-BB1lOXdH

The WADA changes were adopted at the most recent board meeting and will come into effect from June 15 this year.

If lots of guys get busted after June 15, then we know why everyone is cycling faster and faster!

 

[pastronef]

"""The WADA changes were adopted at the most recent board meeting and will come into effect from June 15 this year"

If lots of guys get busted after June 15, then we know why everyone is cycling faster and faster!

well, by Wada/Uci reaction time, the positives after June 15th will be made public by Christmas 2025 eheh

 

[Rob5091]

we, by Wada/Uci reaction time, the positives after June 15th will be made public by Christmas 2025 eheh

That's about right!

 

[Sciatic]

WADA is reviewing how they analyze EPO tests after the Bol case. It' snot being cleared on a technicality and it shows problems with the analysis of samples.

Yeah, that is a big problem if that’s the case.

 

[ManicJack]

well, by Wada/Uci reaction time, the positives after June 15th will be made public by Christmas 2025 eheh

And back dated so the guilty can resume racing in March of 2026.

 

[Rob5091]

The ongoing WADA v USADA war of words -
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...l-war-anger-and-suspicion-spill-into-the-open

...years of pent-up frustrations, suspicion and anger – on both sides – spilled out into the open. A week on, anti-doping’s civil war is showing no sign of abating. And increasingly there is a sense that this row is not just about the fate of 23 Chinese swimmers, but the heart and soul of the anti-doping movement too.

Rob Koehler, the chief executive of the pressure group Global Athlete, puts it: “The athletes I speak to are severely pissed off, they’re disheartened, and they want accountability and answers. Athletes feel that down because once again, they feel like they’re held to a higher standard than powerful countries.”

 

[Rob5091]

The WADA USADA war of words continues -
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...tacks-wadas-half-truths-over-chinese-swimmers
The US Anti-Doping Agency (Usada) criticised the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada) on Wednesday for “doubling down on half-truths” after the global body published a document outlining its handling of a case involving Chinese swimmers.
On Wednesday, Usada pushed back on Wada’s latest statement.

“The facts and intelligence also support a finding of coordinated intentional doping such that Wada should have initiated an investigation into the source of these positive tests,” Usada wrote. “But it did not, failing all clean athletes.”

Usada’s 16-page document outlined a wide array of concerns and is the latest salvo in a public spat between the two sides.

Wada said last week that it would launch an independent review over its handling of the case amid a widespread backlash, after Usada called for a complete overhaul of the global body to restore confidence in the run-up to the Paris Games.

 

[Nick2413]

Good cop bad cop. They’re probably already sitting on another scandal of an entire weightlifting team somehow getting a batch of winstrol contaminated chalk or something.

 

[ppanther92]

Just listened to the ARD podcast about it. So bottom line is - we are all fine with state-doping of Chinese swimmers that have and will soon win medals at Olympics but shun individuals that don’t either have the resources or protection (nation, team, status) to play the system. Anti Doping is hard inherently because you are on the chase/reactive, but with politics involved, its a lost cause.

 

[ppanther92]

Bit from the perspective of China: why change a winning strategy? Cough, Sun Yang, cough…

 

[Sciatic]

Just listened to the ARD podcast about it. So bottom line is - we are all fine with state-doping of Chinese swimmers that have and will soon win medals at Olympics but shun individuals that don’t either have the resources or protection (nation, team, status) to play the system. Anti Doping is hard inherently because you are on the chase/reactive, but with politics involved, its a lost cause.

And Russia must always be the bad guy.