General Doping Thread.

[meat puppet]

Re: Re:

If there ever was a legit reason to hire team doctors, it would be protecting riders from their bosses and to an extent themselves in situations when there are pressures to train and race whilst ill. As noted, myocarditis and pericarditis are no picnics, and can develop if basic respitory infections are not treated properly, ie with adequate rest.

but the doctors c/should be team-independent and work in service of a central and UCI-independent testing body. All fairly easy, yet utopia.

Agree, of course.

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

I was reading recently about the introduction of EPO in the peloton. During its first years of use, before they figured it out, young riders were dropping like flies. In the Netherlands alone, according to the article, 20 riders died from EPO experimentation in the first year. The following year, 21 riders died. The next year, 25. And the next year, 21. And the next, 15. For five or six years, in a single, small country cycling became a lethal sport.

These figures have been challenged. Merckx index made a thread about it about two years ago.

Yes, I'm aware of that. Every single mention of doping in the sport has been challenged, or disputed. What remains after the challenge is the deaths, which can't be disputed.

And who is keeping track of cardiac-related deaths in cycling? Probably no one. Here is a list, very likely incomplete, from a thirteen month period in 2003-2004.

Since January 2003 [thirteen months; the list was compiled in February, 2004], the following eight riders have died from heart attacks:

Denis Zanette (Italy)

Died January 11 2003, aged 32

Zanette collapsed after visiting the dentist. Instantly linked to the use of the blood-booster EPO, which led to an outcry in Italy and demands for stricter drug controls.

Marco Ceriani (Italy)

Died May 5, aged 16

An elite amateur, Ceriani experienced a heart attack during a race, was admitted to hospital in a coma, and failed to recover consciousness.

Fabrice Salanson (France)

Died June 3, aged 23

Died of a heart attack in his sleep. Was found by his room mate in their team hotel. Had been about to compete in the Tour of Germany.

Marco Rusconi (Italy)

Died November 14, aged 24

Rusconi was leaving the party of a friend last November when he collapsed and died in a shopping centre car park.

Jose Maria Jimenez (Spain)

Died December 6, aged 32

Died from a heart attack in a psychiatric hospital in Madrid. Had retired two years previously but consistently claimed a comeback was imminent.

Michel Zanoli (Netherlands)

Died December 29, aged 35

Zanoli, who retired in 1997, was 35 when he suffered a fatal heart attack.

Johan Sermon (Belgium)

Died February 15 2004, aged 21

Suffered an apparent heart failure in his sleep. Had reportedly gone to bed early to prepare for an eight-hour training ride.

Marco Pantani (Italy)

Died February 15 2004, aged 34

 

[Catwhoorg]

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

What's wrong with Sagan? He clearly needs just a bit of marginal endurance juice magic and will win everything as predicted. Imagine him going to SKY, doing some tests that would reveal that "the engine was always there", it needed just to add fuel. Or, maybe, he's training like in 1975.

I reckon he is on the CJC and carrying too much muscle. I think he should be 5lbs lighter, not necessarily for going uphill, but to help his punch when he needs to jump on those two up or decimated field sprint finishes where the sprint starts from 45kmph, and you gotta poke your nose in the wind all the way.

you need to accelerate those extra 5lbs to terminal velocity, do the applied physics for those watts requirement. So the extra muscle must compensate pro rata those 5lbs. I think this is a negative economy

I made a post on a different forum than Bolt's sweetspot weight was at Beijing and German World Champs in 2009, and any extra weight would only slow him down

the sweetspot is ephemeral, temporal, you cannot maintain the 86-88kg sweetspot doing all the androgens, and the training in the weightroom and the olympic lifts and other weightroom movements, on your diet of PEDs and the hormones, there is no way you can maintain that low bodyweight, unless you are on a caloric deficit diet, but then the caloric deficit diet hampers you ability to train at 100% and hit your fastest terminal velocities and explosive efforts out of the blocks...

but I dont think the coaches contemplate this, or have advanced their scientific research with this in mind. There is very little scientific research regarding performance and PEDs, and this would be implicit, or underpinning any study with my above theory in mind.

Also, this "hypothetical sweetspot" would be unique to each and every athlete, some athletes would be better carrying the extra kg, cos pro rata, they could add enough typeII muscle fibres, whilst maintaining the ATP for the speed endurance over 9 seconds... (talking sprinting and the "power" events here, but similarly it would be on the inverse for the endurance athletes and weightloss/weightgain)...

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re:

Funny how nobody wants to debate these issues unless it's to gloat in the aftermath of a sad and tragic event. Reminds me of the time someone here dug up some decade old information to gloat about Jonah Lomu within hours of his death having never shown any inclination to mention those issues in the preceding ten years.

Hit the nail on the head.

 

[Cannibal72]

Kittel on main page: 'rider safety should be taken as seriously as anti-doping'.
Look forward to seeing three-quarters of the peloton culled, as cycling's serious injury rate soars ahead of amateur Himalayan bungee jumping.

 

[frenchfry]

Re:

I was reading recently about the introduction of EPO in the peloton. During its first years of use, before they figured it out, young riders were dropping like flies. In the Netherlands alone, according to the article, 20 riders died from EPO experimentation in the first year. The following year, 21 riders died. The next year, 25. And the next year, 21. And the next, 15. For five or six years, in a single, small country, cycling suddenly was a lethal sport.

You'd think during this time someone, some fan, some journalist, some parent, would have said, "Wait a second, what's going on? Why are all these young men dying? Is there some kind of doping going on?" But apparently no one did. Maybe they thought it would be disrespectful, or in poor taste. And so an entire advanced country under rule of law failed its young athletes, and for years they continued to die, and no one was ever held to account.

When you compete in a professional, commercial sport that's known for having a history of drug abuse - and related fatalities - if something goes wrong and you fall critically ill, it stands to reason that drug abuse is the first thing people think of. It's part of the price you pay for participating in such a sport in the first place. The price you pay should not include death, however, so in my view it's good that people point fingers and ask questions.

Typically, when a cyclist dies like this, the reaction is to say we must not speculate because that would be disrespectful. Then the real cause is hushed up and we wait for the next death.

Maybe in the chain of mysterious heart related deaths (not just cycling) some are not doping related. Maybe.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Looks like the secret cyclist 's book (HugoSport) is coming out in France this week
that's what is reported in today's Gazzetta

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/07-04-2016/confessioni-choc-un-corridore-fanno-tremare-ciclismo-150144286823.shtml

The tale of illegal drugs, sold rides, big and small blackmail.... a 'mafia system'

[1] https://thesecretcyclist.wordpress.com/

 

[luckyboy]

I saw some review which said that from the clues they worked out that it's a 'damn good rider' who has been in the peloton for 15 years and rode De Ronde.

http://laflammerouge.com/un-must-je-suis-le-cycliste-masque/

 

[dolophonic]

Re:

I saw some review which said that from the clues they worked out that it's a 'damn good rider' who has been in the peloton for 15 years and rode De Ronde.

http://laflammerouge.com/un-must-je-suis-le-cycliste-masque/

Yes will have to wait for a translated version...

 

[sniper]

Re:

I saw some review which said that from the clues they worked out that it's a 'damn good rider' who has been in the peloton for 15 years and rode De Ronde.

http://laflammerouge.com/un-must-je-suis-le-cycliste-masque/

anybody know if it is going to contain any stories suitable to the clinic?

 

[IndianCyclist]

Trek-Segafredo General Manager Luca Guercilena was pleased to keep him on as directeur sportif. "Popo is one of the most respectful riders in the peloton, and his experience will be gold for the team's future riders. It is a pleasure to have him in the sport managers group, and he will have time to learn a new job and become a good DS, just as he was a great team player."

Popo is going to continue the legacy of doping. What happened to Cookson's promises?

 

[frenchfry]

Trek-Segafredo General Manager Luca Guercilena was pleased to keep him on as directeur sportif. "Popo is one of the most respectful riders in the peloton, and his experience will be gold for the team's future riders. It is a pleasure to have him in the sport managers group, and he will have time to learn a new job and become a good DS, just as he was a great team player."

Popo is going to continue the legacy of doping. What happened to Cookson's promises?

Popovych is a doping legend. What team wouldn't love to have him as a DS.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Trek-Segafredo General Manager Luca Guercilena was pleased to keep him on as directeur sportif. "Popo is one of the most respectful riders in the peloton, and his experience will be gold for the team's future riders. It is a pleasure to have him in the sport managers group, and he will have time to learn a new job and become a good DS, just as he was a great team player."

Popo is going to continue the legacy of doping. What happened to Cookson's promises?

Popovych is a doping legend. What team wouldn't love to have him as a DS.

Team Sky?

 

[May0maniac]

Mattia Gavazzi tested positive for the third time durning the 2015 Mattia Gavazzi, he won 4 for stages, and for the third time he tested positive for cocaine, that has to be a record.
Source: http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/index.php?page=news&cod=89127&tp=n

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Mattia Gavazzi tested positive for the third time durning the 2015 Mattia Gavazzi, he won 4 for stages, and for the third time he tested positive for cocaine, that has to be a record.
Source: http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/index.php?page=news&cod=89127&tp=n

Doing coke in China, the man just can't help himself.

 

[jens_attacks]

It's a miracle that he can still race a bike, he can't quit it.

 

[luckyboy]

Sad.

Daniel Friebe posted this article about him that he wrote in 2013 - http://twitdoc.com/view.asp?id=208233&sid=4GO9&ext=PDF&lcl=PCY184-gavazzi.pdf&usr=friebos&doc=271223580&key=key-u9LiPwAMvJdcep9RDTD2


Also another couple of nobodies get popped for EPO and steroids..

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

Mattia Gavazzi tested positive for the third time durning the 2015 Mattia Gavazzi, he won 4 for stages, and for the third time he tested positive for cocaine, that has to be a record.
Source: http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/index.php?page=news&cod=89127&tp=n

Doing coke in China, the man just can't help himself.

He'd better be careful. Studies show that the coke in China has clenbuterol in it.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

Mattia Gavazzi tested positive for the third time durning the 2015 Mattia Gavazzi, he won 4 for stages, and for the third time he tested positive for cocaine, that has to be a record.
Source: http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/index.php?page=news&cod=89127&tp=n

Doing coke in China, the man just can't help himself.

He'd better be careful. Studies show that the coke in China has clenbuterol in it.

Also to be noted, it takes about 8 months to analyze the sample containing the aforementioned coke. Just remembered, any decision on Tom Danielson?

 

[RedheadDane]

Gavazzi was also booted from Christina Watches in 2014 after he took cocaine at a race...

 

[wrinklyvet]

Trek-Segafredo General Manager Luca Guercilena was pleased to keep him on as directeur sportif. "Popo is one of the most respectful riders in the peloton, and his experience will be gold for the team's future riders. It is a pleasure to have him in the sport managers group, and he will have time to learn a new job and become a good DS, just as he was a great team player."

Popo is going to continue the legacy of doping. What happened to Cookson's promises?

Popovych is a doping legend. What team wouldn't love to have him as a DS.

Team Sky?

That's right - that's one of the teams that "wouldn't love to have him as a DS."

 

[sniper]

Trek-Segafredo General Manager Luca Guercilena was pleased to keep him on as directeur sportif. "Popo is one of the most respectful riders in the peloton, and his experience will be gold for the team's future riders. It is a pleasure to have him in the sport managers group, and he will have time to learn a new job and become a good DS, just as he was a great team player."

Popo is going to continue the legacy of doping. What happened to Cookson's promises?

Popovych is a doping legend. What team wouldn't love to have him as a DS.

Team Sky?

That's right - that's one of the teams that "wouldn't love to have him as a DS."

why wouldnt they love to have him?
they can't, for PR reasons, sure, but any other reason?

 

[wrinklyvet]

@sniper

Given that he is a "doping legend" it would not be an option, probably not only for the reason you give. I knew someone would respond. However, I do believe a previous poster appeared to be lost in the grammar, mistaking the meaning. Then again, perhaps it was a double bluff. Nice to hear from you.

 

[afpm90]

Rusvelo gets an invitation to the Giro and Firsanov starts getting great results. Haven't we seen this before?

In the previous years he always had some decent results but this year his performance made a jump in quality. Dodgy or is it just me?