General Doping Thread.

[Aimar16]

Oh, you’ve read articles. Oh right. Maybe you sound read what anti-doping agencies say. This quote if from the USADA website in a section literally called anti-doping 101:

Anti-Doping 101- Athlete Information | USADA

Are you competing in an event for the first time where there may be USADA drug testing? Got questions? Anti-Doping 101 is here for you.

www.usada.org

how about Sport Ireland:



I wonder why they tell athletes to contact the NGB if they haven’t heard within 6 weeks..?

I find it hard to believe that this information is up to date. Looking back at the USADA website from 2019 , it already has this "6-8 weeks" information - http://web.archive.org/web/20190722...es/antidoping101/#1528994038735-5cd94582-4b4d

Btw, US anti-doping agency is not the best example. There is a reason why the US is called a third world country in a Gucci belt. According to USADA, the athlete will be notified by mail. I'm sure such services are not as fast there as in Europe.

They should not be commenting on individual cases, especially those that are ongoing and even more so when it involves a child. I really don’t understand how this is hard to comprehend.

Are you suggesting that this is a individual case? The samples of the other athletes were checked immediately, but Valieva's was delayed??! If this is the case then it is scandalous.

But if there was a delay in the analysis of samples in general, it is difficult to understand why a statement is not given. For example: 'Due to the Covid situation (or some other situation) which affected the laboratory staff, the analysis of samples took longer than usual from xx to xx'

ITA also issued a statement after the US media leaked her name despite the fact that she is a 'protected person'

 

[PeterB]

ITA also issued a statement after the US media leaked her name despite the fact that she is a 'protected person'

Sorry for being pedantic but any proof that it was the US media that leaked her name? You seem to be good at researching internet so maybe you could find who was the first to mention her?

Because based on what I found the first to report so might have been insidethegames.biz, which is, well, British, rather than American...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1491425423808421892

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/insidethegames/status/1491425423808421892

 

[roundabout]

and insidethegames is owned by dunsar media which is in turn owned by Vox Europe Investment Holding Llc which is a Hungarian company

and that Hungarian company ownership trail allegedly goes to...

drum roll

Russia.

 

[Aimar16]

Sorry for being pedantic but any proof that it was the US media that leaked her name? You seem to be good at researching internet so maybe you could find who was the first to mention her?

Because based on what I found the first to report so might have been insidethegames.biz, which is, well, British, rather than American...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1491425423808421892

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/insidethegames/status/1491425423808421892

USAtoday was the first. See the date of her tweet: 12:26 PM · Feb 9, 2022 (CET time - It will show you a different time if you live in a different time zone than me) vs insidethegames' tweet 3:55 PM · Feb 9, 2022 (CET time)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1491372951261696001

BEIJING – The medal ceremony for the Olympic figure skating team competition has been delayed by a positive drug test among the gold-medal-winning Russian team, and officials have been told that the athlete who tested positive is a minor, according to a person with knowledge of the situation who spoke to USA TODAY Sports on the condition of anonymity.

The only minor on the six-person Russian team that won gold was Kamila Valieva, 15, the gold-medal favorite in the women’s competition later in the Games.

 

[PeterB]

USAtoday was the first. See the date of her tweet: 12:26 PM · Feb 9, 2022 (CET time - It will show you a different time if you live in a different time zone than me) vs insidethegames' tweet 3:55 PM · Feb 9, 2022 (CET time)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1491372951261696001

Well, I believe that the news story linked to this tweet directly mentioning Valieva has since been updated (which is clear from its content). The original tweet does not name anyone and arguably the original story did neither (but I have not tried checking web archives), so I don't think this was the first one.

 

[Netserk]

Well, I believe that the news story linked to this tweet directly mentioning Valieva has since been updated (which is clear from its content). The original tweet does not name anyone and arguably the original story did neither (but I have not tried checking web archives), so I don't think this was the first one.

Positive drug test by Russian figure skater has forced a delay of Olympic team medals ceremony

Medals for the team figure skating event were scheduled to be awarded Tuesday night, but the ceremony was delayed.

web.archive.org

"The name of the person who tested positive has not been released."

[Just to document that you are correct]

 

[Aimar16]

Well, I believe that the news story linked to this tweet directly mentioning Valieva has since been updated (which is clear from its content). The original tweet does not name anyone and arguably the original story did neither (but I have not tried checking web archives), so I don't think this was the first one.

I am not sure exactly when Valieva was first specifically named on this website. But it is 100% that this website was the first to mention a failed doping test. Despite the fact that the IOC kept calling it a 'legal case' because a minor was involved. By the way, Valieva was already named as a suspect in the first version of the so-called USAtoday article, as you can see from the link Netserk sent in.

This person had already begun speculating about Valieva's on social media

She also started a massive disinformation campaign on american TV channel so-called CNN and started spreading fake news that Valieva had tested positive at the Olympics.

More interesting information. Karolinska Lab has a lot of explaining to do.

The doping samples of Russian figure skater Kamila Valiyeva, given in mid-January in Tallinn during the European Championships, were analysed faster than the December samples given at the Russian Championships in St Petersburg, although both were handled by the same laboratory in Stockholm during the coronavirus restrictions. This was reported to TASS by a source.

Январскую пробу Валиевой с чемпионата Европы проверили раньше декабрьской

Об этом ТАСС сообщил источник

tass.ru

Oh, you’ve read articles. Oh right. Maybe you sound read what anti-doping agencies say. This quote if from the USADA website in a section literally called anti-doping 101:

WADA recommends that if a national anti-doping agency is not notified of a test result within 10 working days, it makes a "follow-up call" to the lab to enquire about the "pending results".

Mitigating factors in six-week delay for Valieva's test result

More than six weeks went by from the time teenage Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva's sample was collected and the day she heard at the Beijing Olympics that she tested positive for a banned substance at her national championships.

www.reuters.com

 

[roundabout]

Nothing remotely interesting if one cares enough to read the ISL

The reporting time required for specific occasions (e.g. for Major Events, see Annex B) may be substantially less than twenty (20) days.

page 106 (again)

Major Event: A series of individual international Competitions conducted together under an international multi-sport organization functioning as a ruling body (e.g. the Olympic Games, Pan American Games).

page 20

https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/isl_2021.pdf

European Championships absolutely fall under the definition of Major Event so there is nothing noteworthy about the samples taken there having a faster turnaround time,

 

[BlueRoads]

Everyone was soon suspecting it was Valieva because she was one of those who weren't at practice and the Eteri girls hardly ever miss a practice even when they have a strict schedule. Besides Kondratiuk and Galliamov after being speculated about as well apparently liked a report about the story, which looked like "I'm not the one they are talking about".

Watching ice dance right now and I can tell you the English commentators are still very much behind Tutberidze's daughter who's competing (while the Russian audience at Nationals booed the judges for effectively sending them to the Olympics.)

 

[roundabout]

Speculating about who it was is a bit different than having the name leaked.

 

[BlueRoads]

Speculating about who it was is a bit different than having the name leaked.

Yeah, but I'm not sure the name got leaked... it seems that Christine person is more someone who doesn't really have the best connections anymore but was speculating and trying to get her name out? (That's what I read, I'm not familiar with her.)

 

[Aimar16]

Major Event: A series of individual international Competitions conducted together under an international multi-sport organization functioning as a ruling body (e.g. the Olympic Games, Pan American Games).

page 20

https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/resources/files/isl_2021.pdf

European Championships absolutely fall under the definition of Major Event so there is nothing noteworthy about the samples taken there having a faster turnaround time,

I struggle to understand how the European Figure Skating Championships fit into these criteria.

Everyone was soon suspecting it was Valieva because she was one of those who weren't at practice and the Eteri girls hardly ever miss a practice even when they have a strict schedule.

IOC called it a 'legal case' as they wanted to protect the minor athlete. The doping speculation only started after the USAtoday leak

 

[fmk_RoI]

so-called CNN

Oh my...

 

[roundabout]

I struggle to understand how the European Figure Skating Championships fit into these criteria.

The European Figure Skating Championships is an annual figure skating competition in which figure skaters compete for the title of European champion. Medals are awarded in the disciplines of men's singles, women's singles, pair skating, and ice dance(1). The event is sanctioned by the International Skating Union (ISU)(2) and is the sport's oldest competition.

(1) individual international competitions

(2)international multi-sport organization

 

[BlueRoads]

I struggle to understand how the European Figure Skating Championships fit into these criteria.



IOC called it a 'legal case' as they wanted to protect the minor athlete. The doping speculation only started after the USAtoday leak

Well, there were two possibilities: some violation of covid rules or doping. What else could be the reason for a medal event delay of day after day? The speculation started soon.

What I didn't get so far: Wasn't it Rusada that took the samples and sent them to Sweden? Is there someone "neutral" supervising the taking of the samples at Nationals?
I mean, Rusada immediately lifted the ban after one day of suspension. But why did they even make the positive sample at a national event "possible"? Was WADA involved in the test taking?
I just think that Tutberidze's influence cannot be overestimated. Her skaters are not only strong but also extremely overscored. She got her daughter to the Olympics although it's very questionable whether that's deserved. For some reason no judge of any country has called her Georgian skater Kvitelashvili's obvious not-Toeloop Toeloop out for years. And my serious impression is that this US/Russia thing comes on top of all of it, it's not behind it, the way I see it.
So unless the circumstances were such that the Russian fed and Rusada could absolutely not avoid the positive sample because they never had any hold of it/ any influence on the testing/sample, I would think that someone in Russia must have had an interest in "allowing" this.

 

[Aimar16]

The European Figure Skating Championships is an annual figure skating competition in which figure skaters compete for the title of European champion. Medals are awarded in the disciplines of men's singles, women's singles, pair skating, and ice dance(1). The event is sanctioned by the International Skating Union (ISU)(2) and is the sport's oldest competition.

(1) individual international competitions

(2)international multi-sport organization

Seriously?

A series of individual international Competitions conducted together = This means that athletes take part in various competitions. For example: biathlon, skiing, ice hockey, ice skating...

under an international multi-sport organization functioning as a ruling body = for example: Association of International Olympic Winter Sports Federations

They even listed examples = e.g. the Olympic Games, Pan American Games

I mean, Rusada immediately lifted the ban after one day of suspension. But why did they even make the positive sample at a national event "possible"? Was WADA involved in the test taking?

I am sure RUSADA did the test. But they had nothing to do with the suspension cancellation.

Following a request from the Athlete's representatives, the Disciplinary Anti-Doping Committee (DADC) hearing was held on 09 February 2022. On the same day, the DADC made a decision to cancel the suspension: the Athlete and the relevant anti-doping organizations - Russian Figure Skating Federation, ISU, WADA, IOC and ITA - were notified. To be mentioned, the DADC is an operationally independent body established to conduct hearings and make a decision on a possible anti-doping rules violation. RAA “RUSADA” has no influence on decisions taken by the DADC.

https://rusada.ru/en/news/press-rel...-v-otnoshenii-figuristki-chlena-komandy-okr-/

 

[PeterB]

IOC called it a 'legal case' as they wanted to protect the minor athlete. The doping speculation only started after the USAtoday leak

If anything, USA today news story might have leaked the doping speculation about the Russian team in general after the medal ceremony was postponed. Not that it was so difficult to imagine what was going on even without their contribution. But nothing that was posted above suggests that they (or any other US media) "leaked" the name of the athlete in question. So it's still insidethegames who claim they first broke exclusive news on Valieva's doping specifically.

I don't think it is so important to determine who exactly leaked the news of Valieva's positive, but it was you who started claiming it was "the US media" without any support for such a statement, that's why I started querying you. I assume you are now willing to backtrack on your statement.

I won't argue that some US media subsequently started shamelessly exploit this situation and some of their statements were quite outrageous, considering that this case might have been just an innocent error or an oversight, rather than a sign of something widespread and profound. But that's another story.

 

[BullsFan22]

If anything, USA today news story might have leaked the doping speculation about the Russian team in general after the medal ceremony was postponed. Not that it was so difficult to imagine what was going on even without their contribution. But nothing that was posted above suggests that they (or any other US media) "leaked" the name of the athlete in question. So it's still insidethegames who claim they first broke exclusive news on Valieva's doping specifically.

I don't think it is so important to determine who exactly leaked the news of Valieva's positive, but it was you who started claiming it was "the US media" without any support for such a statement, that's why I started querying you. I assume you are now willing to backtrack on your statement.

I won't argue that some US media subsequently started shamelessly exploit this situation and some of their statements were quite outrageous, considering that this case might have been just an innocent error or an oversight, rather than a sign of something widespread and profound. But that's another story.

It is an innocent error. Calling it something more than that is wrong. Not you, but in general people that do.

 

[PeterB]

Ok, I did not want to drag this discussion any further, but just to end any doubts, The Guardian corroborates that insidethegames were those who "leaked" the news...
https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/2...journalists-receive-death-threats-from-russia

 

[fmk_RoI]

The Guardian corroborates that insidethegames were those who "leaked" the news...

That article says nothing about leaking. It claims the Inside the Games journalists broke the story. How they got her name - whether by deduction or via a leak - isn't even speculated on in it.

Is getting these things right really so difficult?

 

[PeterB]

That article says nothing about leaking. It claims the Inside the Games journalists broke the story. How they got her name - whether by deduction or via a leak - isn't even speculated on in it.

Is getting these things right really so difficult?

The point which was discussed in this thread was journalists from which country made that information public, a.k.a. leaked it to public. If information is leaked to journalists but not published, there's not much to discuss about as to general public, information is still not known. That's the whole point. Who actually leaked that information to journalists has not been discussed here.

 

[PeterB]

The CAS Panel said there were “serious issues of untimely notification of the results of the athletes’ anti-doping test”.
The panel said this “infringed upon the athletes’ ability to establish certain legal requirements for her benefit”, while such late notification was not her fault, in the middle of the Olympic Winter Games Beijing 2022.”
The three-person CAS panel said it considered “fundamental principles of fairness, proportionality, irreparable harm and the relative balance of interests between the applicants and the athlete”.
“In particularly the panel considered that preventing the athlete from competing at the Olympic Games would cause her irreparable harm in these circumstances.”

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1119252/kamila-valieva-cas-decision-beijing-2022

Perhaps less bad of two bad choices from purely sporting perspective. At least, in her sport one's participation does not directly affect someone else's, unlike e.g. in tennis or even cycling, so later disqualification which is still possible should not have direct consequences on the ranking of the rest...

 

[BlueRoads]

The CAS Panel said there were “serious issues of untimely notification of the results of the athletes’ anti-doping test”.
The panel said this “infringed upon the athletes’ ability to establish certain legal requirements for her benefit”, while such late notification was not her fault, in the middle of the Olympic Winter Games Beijing 2022.”
The three-person CAS panel said it considered “fundamental principles of fairness, proportionality, irreparable harm and the relative balance of interests between the applicants and the athlete”.
“In particularly the panel considered that preventing the athlete from competing at the Olympic Games would cause her irreparable harm in these circumstances.”

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1119252/kamila-valieva-cas-decision-beijing-2022

Perhaps less bad of two bad choices from purely sporting perspective. At least, in her sport one's participation does not directly affect someone else's, unlike e.g. in tennis or even cycling, so later disqualification which is still possible should not have direct consequences on the ranking of the rest...

You are right, her participation does hardly effect other's performances directly. And there are positives from this decision: Russia will not be able to play the victim like they might have done, and maybe this will also help to raise the age limit, because if an athlete cannot be held to the same standards as others because she's too young, then maybe she shouldn't be competing against them in the first place. And of course, for the very small possibility that she was clean, it's better.

However it also has depressing consequences as well. If she can hold her nerves together (which she now may not, she would probably have to be a robot to do so) she will win gold, so there will be a gold medallist that everyone knows is almost sure to have doped. Not exactly great for the sport. (And also not great for her, as she will probably get a lot of hate.) In addition to someone not skating in the Olympics because her place is taken, there will also be someone not making the final because her place is taken, and someone will not get a medal in front of everyone (will there even be a medal ceremony?) with all the consequences, also financially, that this would bring. After all it's a sport where an Olympic medal is practically the only thing anyone from the outside cares about, but if it gets decided in court weeks after the event, sponsors won't care much anymore.

Messed up situation overall.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

IOC says that she will not be part of any medal ceremony (not clear whether that means no ceremony or a ceremony with only 2 podia populated).
Childish nonsense: they either are signed up to acceptthe decisions of CAS or they are not.

 

[BlueRoads]

IOC says that she will not be part of any medal ceremony (not clear whether that means no ceremony or a ceremony with only 2 podia populated).
Childish nonsense: they either are signed up to acceptthe decisions of CAS or they are not.

Well, obviously they don't agree with the decision but they can't do anything against it. So this is all they can do. Obviously they don't expect a possible medal to stand and therefor the medal ceremony would be a travesty anyway and I guess they don't want that for their event. After all the reasoning of the CAS doesn't seem to be that there is any special doubt about the positive result, but simply that because she's a minor and the announcement of the positive was so untimely that she couldn't get a great defence until her competition, they are giving her this chance just in case.

If she podiums there won't be any medal ceremony.

They will also allow one more skater into the final.

Edit: WADA is blaming Rusada for not putting a fast track sign on the sample... I'm not sure whether that really was Rusada's responsibility or whether WADA is trying to deflect blame from themselves.