Geraint Thomas, the next british hope

Page 67 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Re: Re:

Merckx index said:
macbindle said:
At 22-23 Thomas was winning Gold medals in the Olympics and World Championships....on the track.
That was his focus. Ditto Wiggins.

It's a bit dim to talk about their road race palmares at aged 22 when that is not what they had been doing.

Did talent show early? A rack of gold medals at the highest level says yes. They rose to the absolute pinnacle of what they were doing.

Is anybody claiming that they are on the level of a Contador, a Merckx, or even a Nibali? No. Wiggins had one great year with a TdF course that suited him (and a stack of kenacort) Thomas had a year with key competitors not present in the form they perhaps could have been and the strongest GT team to support him.

Neither of these are 5 time tour winners, are they.
Just like the 22 year old TDF winner is a red herring, so is the comparison to Contador or Nibali. Most riders aren't five time winners. Evans and Sastre won the Tour once. Valverde has never won it, neither did Vino nor Basso. Schleck won it once by default. Dumo hasn't won it. Yes, nearly all these riders won some other GT, and podiumed in the Tour, but there's no reason to think Wiggins and Thomas couldn't have done the same, if they had spent as much time at it as these riders did. Neither of them was/is a one-off who just got very lucky one year, as you seem to imply. They clearly could have competed for Tour podiums and wins in other GTs.

You say Wiggins and Thomas were at the pinnacle of what they were doing. But what they were doing isn't that related to road racing. If they had talent for road racing, wouldn't they have gone in that direction? Given they had so much talent for track racing, don't you find it suprising that they also had the talent for road racing? It seems they were not only among the best track racers in the world, but could transform into among the best road racers in the world. Not capable of winning 4 or 5 Tours, but winning once or twice, something very few elite road racers ever accomplish.
well...Wiggins' career is quite a mystery...he reached levels of consistency of dominance in 2012 rarely seen...to climb so high then...bam...not even 'allowed' to defend title...then fell apart in 2013 Giro...and then................

so as difficult to compare him to Valverde, an Evans or Schelck....
 
Well we know he had massive doses of triamcinolone to get him through 2012. That's not something you can keep doing. But it's clear he put everything he had into that year as well. That too, is something unsustainable.
 
Focus on road 2008
Fourth in TdF 2009
3rd in Vuelta 2011
Won TdF 2012

He didnt start that road focus as a 21 year old neo pro, he started it as a mature athlete, and a multi gold winning Olympic athlete. Yes sure his 2012 was insane, but we know that he had some help.
 
Jul 25, 2015
94
1
2,685
Re: Re:

Bolder said:
The Hegelian said:
macbindle said:
The Hegelian said:
Say what you will, that Thomas is the best climber in the world '18-'19 is just impossible for me to believe.

It's in the same category as Jalabert and Armstrong. Just*impossible*to*believe.
Statements like that deserve careful attention because it sounds like a possible strawman. What are your criteria for judging the 'best climber in the world' and what has Thomas done to fulfil these?

Judging by Thursday's TdF stage, Alaphilippe is the best climber in the world, which, of course, is impossible to believe ;)
How is that a strawman? The best climbers come to the tour at 100%, and the best one wins. That's 2018 covered.

This year there has been one summit finish. Thomas was clearly the strongest climber. May not stay that way, but thus far.....
"Best climber" is always going to be subjective unless you can come up with a Mont Ventoux ITT. Thomas might not win that one against Bernal or even Landa/Lopez.

Climbing in GTs has so much to do with how you save and manage energy, how your team performs etc.

Based on results, it's not a stretch to say that Thomas is indeed the best climber in the world right now. He was clearly the best in the mountains in the TdF last year. I haven't seen any dropoff yet, based on one stage...
Ventoux might not be be the best climb for a ITT because of the wind situation but i get your point. :razz:
 
Re:

macbindle said:
Focus on road 2008
Fourth in TdF 2009
3rd in Vuelta 2011
Won TdF 2012

He didnt start that road focus as a 21 year old neo pro, he started it as a mature athlete, and a multi gold winning Olympic athlete. Yes sure his 2012 was insane, but we know that he had some help.
He literally went from the autobus to 4th place at the TdF in one year, that is not gradual no matter how you look at it even if I bought your "focus on the road" explanation.
 
Jul 25, 2015
94
1
2,685
Re:

macbindle said:
Nothing in the known universe can be compared to Froome's change of fortune in pro cycling ;)
Well a certain someone coming back after harsh cancer treatment and a long time off can be considered just as unbelieveable.

It's actually interesting that those who had the most success in the last 20 years also had the most miraculous transformations.
 
Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
macbindle said:
It's a team sport ;)

Sky ride in strength and their dominance is majorly attributed to high tempo riding in the mountains which deter rival attacks. The high tempo ensures attrition of weaker teams, leaving their captains to fight it out alone towards the end of a stage.

This tactic would not have been possible if Sky didn't have at least 3-4 riders capable of putting long stints of pace setting. For example, consider the position of Froome this year, who cracked at crucial times during the race. If one takes out Bernal and Kwiatkowski from Sky, who then paces Froome back in a podium position? So any rider wishing to win the Tour and end Sky's dominance will need to have an equally strong team around him.
And then we're back to the financial problem. Because you need to be able to finance a strong enough leader to beat Ineos' leader (of which there are markedly few, if any) AND at least 3-4 riders who are strong enough to lead other teams but who are willing to subordinate their goals to domestique. And with the knowledge that your best and most successful tactic also plays into Ineos' hands because they intend to ride high tempo as their main tactic anyway. And even if you CAN finance that (which is unlikely), and can offer those riders more than Ineos can wave under their noses, you've still got to fight for that controlling position at the head of the péloton with Ineos anyway.

Which also leads to more tempo riding and attritional mountain stages, just with fewer teams involved and fewer riders with the freedom to try things, and even less chance of succeeding seeing as not one but at least two super-strong teams would be chasing them down. Sounds terrible for the spectacle.
Here's Sean Yates agreeing with you:

https://youtu.be/EcnueHLmU9o
 
Re: Re:

scapewalker said:
macbindle said:
Nothing in the known universe can be compared to Froome's change of fortune in pro cycling ;)
Well a certain someone coming back after harsh cancer treatment and a long time off can be considered just as unbelieveable.

It's actually interesting that those who had the most success in the last 20 years also had the most miraculous transformations.
Absolutely not. Armstrong was a better rider than Froome pre-transformation and at least had the decency to ease into it a bit. With Froome it was like he flipped a switch and was suddenly one of the very best riders ever to ride a bike. Nothing compares to it. The whole thing is so ridiculous that I find it hard to believe that it's possible even with limitless doping. It's almost like there has to be something more in the mix for it to start to make sense. Not necessarily saying it's a motor, by the way, but that would go a long way towards explaining it. Just magically gaining watts like that. Never seen it before. Hope I never see it again.
 
Jul 25, 2015
94
1
2,685
Re: Re:

Saint Unix said:
scapewalker said:
macbindle said:
Nothing in the known universe can be compared to Froome's change of fortune in pro cycling ;)

Well a certain someone coming back after harsh cancer treatment and a long time off can be considered just as unbelieveable.

It's actually interesting that those who had the most success in the last 20 years also had the most miraculous transformations.
Absolutely not. Armstrong was a better rider than Froome pre-transformation and at least had the decency to ease into it a bit. With Froome it was like he flipped a switch and was suddenly one of the very best riders ever to ride a bike. Nothing compares to it. The whole thing is so ridiculous that I find it hard to believe that it's possible even with limitless doping. It's almost like there has to be something more in the mix for it to start to make sense. Not necessarily saying it's a motor, by the way, but that would go a long way towards explaining it. Just magically gaining watts like that. Never seen it before. Hope I never see it again.

He might just be a super responder as many have suggested before. The fact that people react so differently to drugs is the one thing that actually bothers me when watching races. #euqalplayingfield
 
Re:

scapewalker said:
Is it just me or does G always look super unhealthy when this lean even more so than other gc riders?
Anyone who needs to tailor their jersey sleeves so they aren't flapping in the wind looks unhealthy to me. So that would be all of them.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS