Get Rid of Wild Card Teams in WT Events?

[jmdirt]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/05/news/ochowicz-calls-for-end-to-crash-fest-by-removing-wildcard-teams_371663

What other sport allows "lower" teams into top events? I love seeing an unheard of guy from a "local" team take it to the big guns, but I agree that if you want to do the big events you should be part of the top tier. Some of the WT guys are super fit, crappy bike riders, but less racers might reduce crashes.

 

[The Hitch]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/05/news/ochowicz-calls-for-end-to-crash-fest-by-removing-wildcard-teams_371663

What other sport allows "lower" teams into top events?

The world's three biggest sports, Association football, Rugby and cricket immediately come to mind (ok, not sure about cricket, but definately the other two)

 

[jmdirt]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/05/news/ochowicz-calls-for-end-to-crash-fest-by-removing-wildcard-teams_371663

What other sport allows "lower" teams into top events?

The world's three biggest sports, Association football, Rugby and cricket immediately come to mind (ok, not sure about cricket, but definately the other two)

The Champion League teams don't play the Premiere League teams. The world cup is national teams. The top of the Rugby food chain is played by national teams too. I don't know much about cricket, but it seems like the top of that heap is national teams too. NCAA teams don't play the NFL, NBA.

 

[Catwhoorg]

But the rugby world cup has what 20 teams.
Only 12 ish have ever reached the knockout stages (of 8).

You can pick 3-4 teams right now which have no chance of winning a pool game. Lets be fair a 100 point smashing by New Zealand doesn't do anything for either side.

For football:
Yes the Champions league teams play the premier league (or Serie A or Bundesleague) as they are in both competitions at the same time. If you include the preliminaries there are some stupidly no-hope teams in the competition.

 

[TMP402]

Well if BMC and IAM merge, that would mean one more wildcard spot...

 

[Velolover2]

Then they have to sacrifice some races so that the Europe Tour, America Tour, etc. wouldn't suck.

At the same time, if WT teams aren't allowed to participate in Europe Tour events such as Strade Bianche and Oomp Het Nieuwsblad, it could suck too.

 

[Velolover2]

But I agree with the size of the peloton. It's way too big. Reduce the number of riders and teams.

 

[IamIronMan]

Well I don't have all the stats in front of me, but I really have to wonder how many of these crashes are the "fault" of lower tier teams vs the WT teams. I have a hard time believing this is some kind of massive problem. If they get rid of wildcard lower tier teams, you are only hurting your sport. These teams need the exposure. It's a short sighted viewpoint IMO.

 

[Highlander]

I assume that the main reason why he said this was because a few CCC riders went down and took out Kung. Thus, it shows that they are dangerous riders. I think that the comments are ridiculous since WT riders seem to cause just as many crashes. How often do people complain about riders like Talansky or Cavendish and argue that they are dangerous riders yet no one is calling for excluding them from top level races?

 

[TourOfTexas]

I've called out Farrar in the past. That dude was dangerous 2014 and before. I think he agrees that he sucks now so he doesn't try as hard.

 

[movingtarget]

I don't think it would make a difference as many crashes are caused by good riders and concentrating on a flat stage for 5 hours is not easy for anyone, then you throw in the weather, descents, the state of the roads, spectators etc.........Wildcard teams are sometimes good for the race and for the smaller teams if they have some success. I like it the way it is. It's good to have the minnows mixing with the best and it also happens in other sports. Cricket World Cup, FA Cup etc........

 

[IndianCyclist]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/05/news/ochowicz-calls-for-end-to-crash-fest-by-removing-wildcard-teams_371663

What other sport allows "lower" teams into top events?

The world's three biggest sports, Association football, Rugby and cricket immediately come to mind (ok, not sure about cricket, but definately the other two)

The Champion League teams don't play the Premiere League teams. The world cup is national teams. The top of the Rugby food chain is played by national teams too. I don't know much about cricket, but it seems like the top of that heap is national teams too. NCAA teams don't play the NFL, NBA.

In cricket some of the associate members always get to play the world cup (One day & T-20) via playoffs, but the problem is that if 2 strong teams are equal on points, the one team getting to play an associate member as the last match typically has a easy job. Also it screws up the net runrate.
Its like who can pummel the weak guy most.

 

[coppino]

this sport needs to get ridden of unprofessional pro like this guy. he could not lead an amteur team in the mighty giro dei quattro cantoni.

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

They should give out more not fewer and let the WT tour teams opt out of races that dont suit them. What was the point of forcing the carrots to turn up at the start line of any of the cobblestone races and struggle on to the finish just for a sake of a couple of points? Much better to give out an extra invite to a pro-conti belgian team who are going to attack and send lads up the road.

 

[KubaWinter]

His statements are ridiculous.

The Sky is top tier, fabulous in marginal gains, extreme equipment and their riders were able to wipe out the half of the peloton.

 

[jmdirt]

I didn't read it so much that he is saying only wild card riders cause crashes, but rather too many riders on the roads leads to more crashes. The UCI has discussed reducing the number or riders per team. JO is suggesting that instead of reducing the riders per team, reduce the number of teams.

 

[BigMac]

Funny thing is, more often do you see WT teams ruining Continental Tour races than the opposite.

 

[Ramira]

Leaving Pro Continental teams out of WT races would be disastrous.

It would mean talented (young) riders who aren't yet on a WT team have not chance to ride their local WT courses.

Not only would it take away from the races, it would also hurt development if everyone had to be on a WT team to ride WT races.

For example Leopold Konig would not have ridden the Tour last year. And without the Belgian wildcard teams the Flemish races would be so much less interesting.

An argument could be made for making the peleton a bit smaller, but I'd suggest doing that by maybe removing a WT team or 2, or by decreasing the squad sizes. Removing the weakest rider from each time would increase the quality a lot more than removing WC teams, and it would make races less controlled.

 

[jmdirt]

What is the "best" Number of Racers?

If World Tour races were limited to 150 racers:
-Would there be less crashes?
-Would the racing be better or worse?

Would even less be better/safer (125)? Or is 175-200 OK? Does it depend on the event: classic/one day, 1 week stage race, GT?

 

[Red Rick]

Amount of racers doesn't matter, amount of racers per team does. Start by reducing it all by 1, see if that has an effect, don't see why 1day races and short stage races need bigger teams than 6 riders anyway

 

[jmdirt]

Hey mods can you move this to the other thread with JO's comments about getting rid of wild card teams in WT races? I should have just added this to it since its pretty much the same thread. Sorry!

 

[Eshnar]

Re:

Hey mods can you move this to the other thread with JO's comments about getting rid of wild card teams in WT races? I should have just added this to it since its pretty much the same thread. Sorry!

done

 

[The Hitch]

http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/05/news/ochowicz-calls-for-end-to-crash-fest-by-removing-wildcard-teams_371663

What other sport allows "lower" teams into top events?

The world's three biggest sports, Association football, Rugby and cricket immediately come to mind (ok, not sure about cricket, but definately the other two)

The Champion League teams don't play the Premiere League teams. The world cup is national teams. The top of the Rugby food chain is played by national teams too. I don't know much about cricket, but it seems like the top of that heap is national teams too. NCAA teams don't play the NFL, NBA.

In the world cup in football lower ranked teams are allowed into the tournament due to regional restrictions. For example one of the Conecaf or Asian teams may be ranked lower than the European teams but since only a certain ammount of European teams are allowed, lower ranked teams get in.
In the champions league it's even more like that. There are always several premier league teams that don't make it but are better than some of the eastern teams that do.

In rugby some of the teams at the wc are all amateurs and semi pros. Playing against millionaires. I would say that's letting lower ranked teams into top tier events and a far greater divide than in cycling.

 

[lemon cheese cake]

Re: What is the "best" Number of Racers?

If World Tour races were limited to 150 racers

You could have 25 teams of six. Thats three more (including wildcards) than this years Tour. This either means more pro conti teams or you need more WT teams. There is even the option of just 22 teams (including wildcards) with 6 riders which would mean even less riders (132).

To answer the question about is it pro conti wildcard teams causing crashes? No, not at all. They are just as skilled as the WT riders. Its most likely that most who are in the WT, came from pro conti or below.

 

[jens_attacks]

no,just no.