Giant-Shimano

[King Boonen]

Apparently Kittel can read the minds of the little guys. Needle marks need not only be doping, can be testing, could be explained by TUEs who knows and if Kittel is going to jump on needle marks well what about Wiggins with a pill in his shorts?




I dont expect Kittel to call any out, especially when he is invlolved in blood spinning. But when you call someone out you better be consistent with it! Kittel isn't.



Kittel is a hypocrite for not calling out others like Froome who have come from nowhere and are not transparent when called to be transparent by releasing numbers.

you're assuming it was the needle marks, that's not necessarily the case, just a possibility. Pills aren't illegal, depending on what they are, although I'm afraid I don't know what incident you are referring to.

How isn't he consistent? you do not have nearly enough information to make that claim. All the information we have is he called out someone who was later proved to be a doper.

Kittel is not a hypocrite, just because you believe Froome is doping doesn't mean he is, and even if Kittel believes it, it is fair to assume he is not going to call someone out unless he is sure, and we don't know his thoughts on Froome.


You are making your biases very clear in this discussion, because you are making assumptions about things it is impossible for us to know based on your biases and beliefs. As I said, if a big name is caught doping and Kittel claims to have known, not suspected but known, all along, then he is a hypocrite. until then he should be applauded, as should you guys.

 

[King Boonen]

Kittel calling out Sayar, with hindsight, was like shooting fish in a barrel!

It wasn't with hindsight though was it? I'm sure he made his comments before the positive test came out.

 

[Benotti69]

It wasn't with hindsight though was it? I'm sure he made his comments before the positive test came out.

Yes, that is why i used the coma, ',' and described it as shooting fish in a barrel, because Sayar was called by posters in here it was so obvious. Aint hard to spot unbelievable performances really. We have years of practice.

 

[King Boonen]

Yes, that is why i used the coma, ',' and described it as shooting fish in a barrel, because Sayar was called by posters in here it was so obvious. Aint hard to spot unbelievable performances really. We have years of practice.

It's harder to spot believable performances really, I'm not sure I even know what one would look like

 

[Benotti69]

It's harder to spot believable performances really, I'm not sure I even know what one would look like

Not sure we have seen any in a long long time.

 

[King Boonen]

Not sure we have seen any in a long long time.

I think we do in downhill (I know that's massively moving the goalposts ), but yes, I tend to agree.

For what it's worth, a sprinter protected by their team through a stage and coming out to win is more believable to me than most, for them it's about balancing endurance with absolute power while neither is the ultimate focus, but I didn't see Kittel's sprint in Dublin which sounds like it was ridiculous.

 

[stutue]

Why?

Kittel has no competition in the same class as himself. There are only two other, Cav and The Gorilla, neither of whom are there.

Matthews, Viviani, Bouhanni etc are not in the same league. If it comes to a sprint finish and Kittel is there all of them are going to look ridiculous

 

[SaxonUK]

Not sure we have seen any in a long long time.

I don't think I've been watching cycling long enough to see one.

 

[gooner]

Froome is given as an example of obvious improvement that points to doping.



He had no qualms calling out Sayar without a positive. How does that make Kittel certain?



It is hypocritical to call out 1 and not all. Kittel could call on Froome/Sky to release his numbers for his whole career. But no go after a little guy like Sayar! Hypocrite.

Kittel could've said something about a 42 year old winning a GT! Nope silence? Kittel could say something about what was written in Hamilton's book about Riis, nope silence.

Hypocrite.

Thanks for taking your own argument apart.

You already dismissed his point about why Astana got a WT pro licence with the history it has. Not one rider has said something similar about that team and you still won't recognise it as having his say against some of the bigger names in the sport. He spoke a lot of sense on this topic.

Kittel is a bike rider who also has to concentrate on his racing and training. He shouldn't be a spokesperson on his own against doping. Others need to do more. How many riders had a go at the 3 big names for their response to Armstrong getting finally exposed? None, they kept shut and Kittel could have done similar. He wasn't asked about it but still had his say and you try to scoff at it as if it was something regular we were hearing from riders throughout the peloton at the time.

I mentioned 3 riders(Pourseyedi, Sayar, JTL) who had big suspicion from other riders in the peloton. They were not involved in the passport. One was already busted when Matt Brammeier questioned him, one got caught in the aftermath of Kittel's and Seeldrayers comments and JTL is under investigation for a passport anomaly.

This is not easy targeting and third divisions have an easier ride at flying under the radar compared to the teams at a higher echelon when they are racing against them. This issue regarding third tier teams needs to be highlighted more.

Of course you fail to grasp this and go on about some BS about Kittel being a bully and a racist. I'd like to see what you would do yourself if you were a rider in the peloton. Would you live up the same criteria you now want Kittel to do with the likes of Froome and Wiggins? Like hell you would.

 

[kingjr]

Is there even the slightest reason to believe that he didn't simply have a fever?

Oh and I saw someone comment in the stage thread that went like "if it's just a fever he coud as well have continued"

That's about the most stupid thing I've ever heard. I've ridden a bike with fever more than once and there is zero sense in trying to do that during competition.

 

[BYOP88]

Is there even the slightest reason to believe that he didn't simply have a fever?

Oh and I saw someone comment in the stage thread that went like "if it's just a fever he coud as well have continued"

That's about the most stupid thing I've ever heard. I've ridden a bike with fever more than once and there is zero sense in trying to do that during competition.

It was only a fever, Froome rode for about 40 years with badzilla

 

[Benotti69]

<snipped >

Of course you fail to grasp this and go on about some BS about Kittel being a bully and a racist. I'd like to see what you would do yourself if you were a rider in the peloton. Would you live up the same criteria you now want Kittel to do with the likes of Froome and Wiggins? Like hell you would.

I suggested it may be perceived as bullying or racist.

If I were Kittel and I was doping, as I believe Kittel is (his blood spinning is doping IMO) than I would keep my mouth shut. But I am not Kittel so stupid point!

 

[Benotti69]

Is there even the slightest reason to believe that he didn't simply have a fever?

Oh and I saw someone comment in the stage thread that went like "if it's just a fever he coud as well have continued"

That's about the most stupid thing I've ever heard. I've ridden a bike with fever more than once and there is zero sense in trying to do that during competition.

Tyler rode with a broken collar bone.

 

[gooner]

I suggested it may be perceived as bullying or racist.

If I were Kittel and I was doping, as I believe Kittel is (his blood spinning is doping IMO) than I would keep my mouth shut. But I am not Kittel so stupid point!

He was a young naive lad at that time when he went to the clinic and probably strongly advised to undergo that treatment as it wasn't banned back then. It doesn't make it right of course, but I think he has learned from it.

The point about what you would do if you were a rider in the peloton is an applicable one as what makes you any different to the riders of today that you'd speak out against Froome and Wiggins?

You're asking for something that is near unprecedented in cycling.

 

[kingjr]

Tyler rode with a broken collar bone.

A broken collar bone, not a fever. Sth like 38.5°C is more than enough and there is no way you'll be able to keep up with the field. You only damage your health even more like this.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Kittel would have been stupid to continue in the Giro for much longer.
Ok, he could have clinched another win, but it would have been increasingly difficult to bail. Who cares anyway. Hes no longer a factor race wise with the hills etc.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

The point about what you would do if you were a rider in the peloton is an applicable one as what makes you any different to the riders of today that you'd speak out against Froome and Wiggins?

If I was a clean rider in today's peloton, I wouldn't accuse Froome and Wiggins of doping either. I *would* call out Team SKY on their lack of transparency, which they promised to offer. Furthermore, I would:
- share my power and blood data online
- acknowledge that fans have the right to doubt, actively answer questions if they respond to my data online
- treat all past dopers equally. I remember Jens Keukeleire being upset about "guys like Vino stealing wins from him" (wtf anyway), then 5 seconds later talking about how great it is to have a true Champion like Museeuw congratulate you
- call out those from the 'dark era' that haven't been honest yet - Dekker, Voigt, ...

I don't think there's anything wrong with Kittel's actions in itself though. It's just 'cause I believe he dopes, that I believe his actions are hypocritical.

 

[Franklin]

If I was a clean rider in today's peloton, I wouldn't accuse Froome and Wiggins of doping either. I *would* call out Team SKY on their lack of transparency, which they promised to offer. Furthermore, I would:
- share my power and blood data online
- acknowledge that fans have the right to doubt, actively answer questions if they respond to my data online

Thumbs up!

- treat all past dopers equally. I remember Jens Keukeleire being upset about "guys like Vino stealing wins from him" (wtf anyway), then 5 seconds later talking about how great it is to have a true Champion like Museeuw congratulate you

But not all dopers are equal.... they are humans with their own quirks. One guy may be a doper, but ultra-social. The other one dopes but is a sociopath. One guy may share his winnings, the other may keep it all to himself. etc. etc.

- call out those from the 'dark era' that haven't been honest yet - Dekker, Voigt, ...

1. Who is or isn't honest?
2. When is someone honest enough?
3. Who protects said rider from the fall out?

Who is judge, who is jury?

 

[pastronef]

It's harder to spot believable performances really, I'm not sure I even know what one would look like

Not sure we have seen any in a long long time.

this raises the question: we do we keep following pro cycling?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

this raises the question: we do we keep following pro cycling?

four letters "bici"

 

[Benotti69]

this raises the question: we do we keep following pro cycling?

four letters "bici"

Love hate................

 

[Benotti69]

look at this pic and tell me Kittel is normal...........

https://twitter.com/cycle4life_ie/status/466643132134592513/photo/1

 

[King Boonen]

this raises the question: we do we keep following pro cycling?

I'm a mountain biker.

You could ask the same question about any sport to be honest.

 

[Benotti69]

I'm a mountain biker.

You could ask the same question about any sport to be honest.

All sport is riddled with cheating.........sadly.

 

[Benotti69]

Where is Marcel Kittel?

Did a few stages at the Giro and since then? No Dauphine or Suisse!

Kittel is no doubt 'training' for the TdF.

Kittel clean? Kettle meet pot.