Gilbert V Cancellara - who is the best one day rider of this generation?

[Richeypen]

Is it? I am basically just asking who do you think will get better one day results this year?
If you get better results it generally means you are a better rider.

No it really doesnt. Best rider of their generation is completely different to best rider this year and you know it.



Anyway I think that I have made my argument pretty clearly and am withdrawing from this debate.

 

[Panda Claws]

Gibert isn't gonna win Roubaix, likewise Cancellara with Lombardia/Ardennes.
They are too different to really compare properly.

Can't see Gilbert winning Ronde to be honest - he's not going to hold a solo, even less chance this year, and coming home in a group without a sprinter (or someone stronger in the sprint than him) will need luck.
Still, there's more chance he'll win Ronde one day than Roubaix.

Gilbert could have won Ronde van Vlaanderen 2011.

 

[El Pistolero]

How so? If the hill isnt there Gilbert can't win. Think he will ever win Roubaix? Canc will never win LBL but if he wanted to it would be very hard to stop him at Lombardia. Canc can win flat races, cobbled races, moderatly hilly races, TTs etc. If there isnt a hill, Gilbert can do squat in the big races.

If Leukemans can get fourth in Roubaix, Gilbert can win it

Gilbert won the Omloop twice, pretty flat race don't you think? How many big one day races have no hills in it? Good luck getting further than Paris-Roubaix ROFL.

People these days...

 

[Panda Claws]

Yet Gilbert seems to be much more competitive over different races and he gets better results.

Lets put the question this way..
Who would you bet on to get more CQ points in the one day races this year?

Even in 2010 Gilbert won this contest.

1350 vs 996

 

[Froome19]

No it really doesnt. Best rider of their generation is completely different to best rider this year and you know it.

Yes but my point is that Gilbert gets better results than Cancellara and that certainly can be an indication of best rider of the generation.
I just brought the question to demonstrate how gilbert gets better results which he also got last year, so its not only one year and im sure ,me and many others would bet on Gilbert getting better results in 2 years time as well.

 

[The Hitch]

Philippe Gilbert has podiums in 4 of the 5 monuments.
Fabian Cancellara has won 3 of them but hasn't even top-10'd in the other 2.

If we look at the smaller one-day races Gilbert is also more versatile and more dominant.

So, Phil wins this one but it is very equally matched.

Conveniantly ignore worlds and olympics (well 1 could argue he has a joint podium in worlds).

Also conveniantly talk about podiums to say how great Gilbert is - he has podiumed 4 monuments, and yet immediately switch just to wins when that starts working to Gilberts advantage - monuments since 2009.

Yes Canc has only won 2, but he has podiumed 6 of those 9. Way better than Gilberts 3 out of 12.

 

[The Hitch]

He sprinted quite a bit in TDF flat stages, so I think he can do well in complete flat courses too.
And nearly every big one day race has some hills here or there, I can only find Roubaix without hills.
And for example, there is no way that Canc can win FW or AGR.

Canc cant win FW true but he could win AGR. Weve seen him do quite well in hill sprints before. Well see in October if Canc can handle AGR.

 

[El Pistolero]

Winning 3 is always better than winning 2 and podiuming all the rest.

 

[DominicDecoco]

Yes but my point is that Gilbert gets better results than Cancellara and that certainly can be an indication of best rider of the generation.
I just brought the question to demonstrate how gilbert gets better results which he also got last year, so its not only one year and im sure ,me and many others would bet on Gilbert getting better results in 2 years time as well.

No, not necessarily.

 

[Panda Claws]

Conveniantly ignore worlds and olympics (well 1 could argue he has a joint podium in worlds).

Also conveniantly talk about podiums to say how great Gilbert is - he has podiumed 4 monuments, and yet immediately switch just to wins when that starts working to Gilberts advantage - monuments since 2009.

Yes Canc has only won 2, but he has podiumed 6 of those 9. Way better than Gilberts 3 out of 12.

Starting the count from 2009 is indeed convenient for Gilbert perhaps I should have compared them from when they both got their first monument win?
Because pre-2009 Gilbert wasn't all that good yet.

I forgot about the Olympics. Point taken.

Cancellara does indeed have more podiums. Point taken.
But the first part of my post was about versitality (Podiums in different classics.)
This would be talking about quantity.

I think this discussion pretty much boils down to how highly you value smaller one-day races because at the moment Cancellara may score higher in monuments but if you start counting GW, FW, AGR, PT, etc... then Gilbert takes the lead.

 

[The Hitch]

Winning 3 is always better than winning 2 and podiuming all the rest.

I agree (though it has little to do with the discussion).

Though you might care to take note that Cancellara has won 4 not 2

And its alien from the discussion because while its better on palmares we arent talking about who has the best palmares (that would be mr 4 wc, 1 olympic gold, 25 days in yellow, 4 monuments) but who is the better rider.

Surprising that you can not see that.

And if we are talking about who is the better rider, - dominating 6 monuments out of 9 makes a very very strong case.

I think this discussion pretty much boils down to how highly you value smaller one-day races because at the moment Cancellara may score higher in monuments but if you start counting GW, FW, AGR, PT, etc... then Gilbert takes the lead.

I value those races immensly but that doesnt neccesarily make Gilbert a better one day racer.

outside their goals Gilbert has for the last 2 years definately been better than Canc - but I think we are looking at on top form here.

On top form Canc has been absolutely incredible at the top level of not just in his own races - cobbles, but when he tries, - at hily ones as well - Mendrisio and Beijing.

Valverde for example wins more stage races than Contador, but that doesnt make him the better stage race rider.

 

[El Pistolero]

It's simple really:

In 2009 Gilbert was the better one day racer. In 2010 Cancellara was the better one day racer. In 2011 Gilbert was the better one day racer.

The years before 2009 obviously Cancellara was better, but there's no point in going back further because Phil has grown a lot since then.

But if we just look at the classic wins and ignore all the rest, I'd rather have Phil's wins.

 

[El Pistolero]

I agree (though it has little to do with the discussion).

Though you might care to take note that Cancellara has won 4 not 2

And its alien from the discussion because while its better on palmares we arent talking about who has the best palmares (that would be mr 4 wc, 1 olympic gold, 25 days in yellow, 4 monuments) but who is the better rider.

Surprising that you can not see that.

And if we are talking about who is the better rider, - dominating 6 monuments out of 9 makes a very very strong case.



I value those races immensly but that doesnt neccesarily make Gilbert a better one day racer.

outside their goals Gilbert has for the last 2 years definately been better than Canc - but I think we are looking at on top form here.

On top form Canc has been absolutely incredible at the top level of not just in his own races - cobbles, but when he tries, - at hily ones as well - Mendrisio and Beijing.

Valverde for example wins more stage races than Contador, but that doesnt make him the better stage race rider.

Contador has won more stage races than Valverde.

 

[Swede1]

Canc cant win FW true but he could win AGR. Weve seen him do quite well in hill sprints before. Well see in October if Canc can handle AGR.

Oh yeah I hope he is targeting the worlds RR.

 

[Fatclimber]

Each one epitomizes their respective trade. Both awesome to watch, sheer unmatchable power on their terrain. Kings. I believe from here on out Gilbert will continue to tally more wins. Whenever Canc unsheathes his unholy weapon, everyone knows it's coming and know what they need to do, sit on. Sure, easier said than done. And even despite everyone expecting it, Canc will still win some more. Just not as much as Gilbert. There's just no way to deal with Gilbert's uphill attacks.

 

[The Hitch]

I'd rather have Phil's wins.

And what has that got to do with - who is the best one day rider of this generation?


Not who has the best palmares. Who is the best

 

[El Pistolero]

The best one day rider of his generation will end up with the best palmares in one day races.

Before this generation it was Paolo Bettini and now it's a battle between Gilbert, Cancellara and Boonen(he still has time and can put 2 bad years besides him).

 

[Museeuw]

Hmm.. what kind of poll is this... there is not enough candidates..

Answer is:

Tom Boonen

 

[Parrulo]

Hmm.. what kind of poll is this... there is not enough candidates..

Answer is:

Tom Boonen

was about to post this as well, more monument wins more monuments podiums, world champion. nuff said

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Yet Gilbert seems to be much more competitive over different races and he gets better results.

Lets put the question this way..
Who would you bet on to get more CQ points in the one day races this year?

Phil. But when I think of 'this generation' I think of over a longer period of time. If this thread's question was:
"Gilbert V Cancellara - who is the best one day rider in the last 2 years?"... I'd say Phil.

 

[greenedge]

I think Cancellara might be the better specimen but Gilbert can go better on the hills usually and therefore might be the better all-rounder ( though Cancellara on stage 16 of the TDF reeled in Contador ). Gilbert has only won 2 monuments whilst Cancellara has won 3. Cancellara is also the ITT god- even i don't know if Tony Martin can beat Fabians' record ( though based on last year he is better, for the moment on paper )

It seems hard to choose but i chose Cancellara because he seems to animate races more/ make bigger attacks. Gilbert last year was spectacular but so was Cancellara- just minus the wins.

 

[Echoes]

Cancellara is simply overall the best racer of his generation, period !


He's got the engine ! Gilbert does not. He's a TTer. The best TTer of his generation. The rider, you can't give 5 meters or else he you no longer see him. The rider who can lead a bunch without asking anyone for help and trying to exhaust the field. I've never seen such a talent on the classics in my life.

Boonen also made some great solo efforts, but many of his wins were due to his outstanding sprinting skills, so there really ain't no match for Cancellara.


The best single-day racer since Moser, I would say.

 

[Contre la montre]

How so? If the hill isnt there Gilbert can't win. Think he will ever win Roubaix? .

Yes, the Omloop (twice a winner) is very hilly...

 

[airstream]

Wow. Phil has already got 11 voices. I thought only El Pistolero would vote for him. I go with Fabian definetely. His wins are way harder considering his style and demand far more range of skills. Cancellara focuses on many other things but one day races. He lets Gilbert gambol a bit in his field.

 

[Froome19]

Hmm.. what kind of poll is this... there is not enough candidates..

Answer is:

Tom Boonen

Does Boonen dominate races the way Cancellara and Gilbert do?

He is amazingly talented and a great rider but in terms of pure talent those 2 are incomparable to any one else which includes Boonen and co.
Any anyway you can argue that to include Boonen would be disproportionate as it means there too little an overlap between Gilbert at his peak and Boonen at his peak.