Giro 2013 rumours

[JRanton]

Wiggo won't be going if there's only one ****ty 30km ITT in Milan.

 

[Eshnar]

Wiggo won't be going if there's only one ****ty 30km ITT in Milan.

that's what I meant

 

[airstream]

aaaah, get over it. that's a good route actually. didnt this year's edition really teach us anything? wanna be shocked one more time with the fact that guys can disgrace mortirolo or zoncolan as they did with giau and pampeago? well, at lest a disappointment will be smaller with such a parcours. in year of 100th tour we urgently need some factors that might made elite climbers start the giro. maybe a route can become this factor. i can surely understand you: to anticipate crazy palisade stages for a half-year is very sweet but who will go there?

who is all for 2 tts? ) would you like wiggo to compete with scarponi in tt?))

 

[Eshnar]

aaaah, get over it. that's a good route actually. didnt this year's edition really teach us anything? wanna be shocked one more time with the fact that guys can disgrace mortirolo or zoncolan as they did with giau and pampeago? well, at lest a disappointment will be smaller with such a parcours. in year of 100th tour we urgently need some factors that might made elite climbers start the giro. maybe a route can become this factor. i can surely understand you: to anticipate crazy palisade stages for a half-year is very sweet but who will go there?

I don't get your point.
This is a good route? Based on what?
Better having crap stages so we'll not get disappointed? Imagine how happy we'll be when these stages will turn out exactly as crappy as they seem.
No one is asking for some crazy stage (well I am asking for, but I never really thought to be satisfied), just a few good designed ones.
With this route, who will go there? And why? Answer me.

 

[Capablanca and me]

4 maggio - Napoli (prologo - cronometro a squadre)
5 maggio - Pozzuoli - Marina di Ascea
6 maggio - Agropoli - Castrovillari
7 maggio - Sibari - Martinafranca
8 maggio - Barletta - Foggia
9 maggio - Termoli - Tortoreto Lido
10 maggio - Giulianova - Numana
11 maggio - Senigallia - Città di Castello
12 maggio - San Sepolcro - Firenze
13 maggio - riposo, trasferimento dalla Toscana al Friuli
14 maggio - Cordenons-Malga Montasio
15 maggio - Cave del Predil-diga del Vajont(Erto)
16 maggio - Longarone-Treviso
17 maggio - tappa in provincia di Vicenza
18 maggio - Mori-Polsa(cronoscalata)
19 maggio - località del Garda in provincia di Brescia-Val Senales
20 maggio - Vicenza - Busseto
21 maggio - riposo
22 maggio - Sanremo - Cervere
23 maggio - Bardonecchia - Galibier
24 maggio - Pinerolo - Gallarate
25 maggio - Como - Ponte di Legno (con Mortirolo versante 2012 e Gavia)
26 maggio - Milano (da capire se in linea o a cronometro)

 

[Eshnar]

4 maggio - Napoli (prologo - cronometro a squadre)
5 maggio - Pozzuoli - Marina di Ascea
6 maggio - Agropoli - Castrovillari
7 maggio - Sibari - Martinafranca
8 maggio - Barletta - Foggia
9 maggio - Termoli - Tortoreto Lido
10 maggio - Giulianova - Numana
11 maggio - Senigallia - Città di Castello
12 maggio - San Sepolcro - Firenze
13 maggio - riposo, trasferimento dalla Toscana al Friuli
14 maggio - Cordenons-Malga Montasio
15 maggio - Cave del Predil-diga del Vajont(Erto)
16 maggio - Longarone-Treviso
17 maggio - tappa in provincia di Vicenza
18 maggio - Mori-Polsa(cronoscalata)
19 maggio - località del Garda in provincia di Brescia-Val Senales
20 maggio - Vicenza - Busseto
21 maggio - riposo
22 maggio - Sanremo - Cervere
23 maggio - Bardonecchia - Galibier
24 maggio - Pinerolo - Gallarate
25 maggio - Como - Ponte di Legno (con Mortirolo versante 2012 e Gavia)
26 maggio - Milano (da capire se in linea o a cronometro)

taken from...?

 

[airstream]

I don't get your point.
This is a good route? Based on what?
Better having crap stages so we'll not get disappointed? Imagine how happy we'll be when these stages will turn out exactly crap as they seem.
No one is asking for some crazy stage (well I am asking for, but I never really thought to be satisfied), just a few good designed ones.
With this route, who will go there? And why? Answer me.

alright, i'll try to explain. the 2012 giro has clearly showed that without proper attackers steep climbs are nothing. hesjedal won.. the man was strongest on cervinia turned out to be the same at pampeago. for basso, scarponi and partially rodriguez, fear of the last 2 mtfs chained them completely. they even didn't think of attacking when they probably could. yes, i can admit that sometimes mountain part of route can be irrelevant and something that we observe may be just consequence of a certain relation of forces (we would have seen absolutely the same on say 6% av. grade climbs and 9% ones). The hypothetical (so far) the '13 giro route is a good try to change something for a while.

based on following:

1. not a lot of tt kms cos either no one can tt in the giro or wiggins would smash italians.
2 gentle climbs but gavia. i'm fed up with the walls.

 

[Eshnar]

alright, i'll try to explain. the 2012 giro has clearly showed that without proper attackers steep climbs are nothing. hesjedal won.. the man was strongest on cervinia turned out to be the same at pampeago. for basso, scarponi and partially rodriguez, fear of the last 2 mtfs chained them completely. they even didn't think of attacking when they probably could. yes, i can admit that sometimes mountain part of roure can be irrelevant and something that we observe may be just consequence of a certain relation of forces (we would have seen absolutely on the same at say 6% av. grade climbs and 9% ones). The hypothetical (so far) the '13 giro route is a good try to change something for a while.

And what are they changing, exactly?
No ITTs.
No descents.
5 mountain stages.
No multiple mountain stages except for the last one.

What did they change? They only worsened the mountain stages.

 

[airstream]

heck, what would more tt kilometers change? rcs clearly realize tt is not their thematics and get it right.

as always no one reasons like me

 

[Michele]

4 maggio - Napoli (prologo - cronometro a squadre)
5 maggio - Pozzuoli - Marina di Ascea
6 maggio - Agropoli - Castrovillari
7 maggio - Sibari - Martinafranca
8 maggio - Barletta - Foggia
9 maggio - Termoli - Tortoreto Lido
10 maggio - Giulianova - Numana
11 maggio - Senigallia - Città di Castello
12 maggio - San Sepolcro - Firenze
13 maggio - riposo, trasferimento dalla Toscana al Friuli
14 maggio - Cordenons-Malga Montasio
15 maggio - Cave del Predil-diga del Vajont(Erto)
16 maggio - Longarone-Treviso
17 maggio - tappa in provincia di Vicenza
18 maggio - Mori-Polsa(cronoscalata)
19 maggio - località del Garda in provincia di Brescia-Val Senales
20 maggio - Vicenza - Busseto
21 maggio - riposo
22 maggio - Sanremo - Cervere
23 maggio - Bardonecchia - Galibier
24 maggio - Pinerolo - Gallarate
25 maggio - Como - Ponte di Legno (con Mortirolo versante 2012 e Gavia)
26 maggio - Milano (da capire se in linea o a cronometro)

Id be glad to see 2 stages in Vicenza but it doesnt make much sense from a transfer point of view.

 

[Eshnar]

heck, what would more tt kilometers change? rcs clearly realize tt is not their thematics and get it right.

TTs should be there in order to force climbers to attack. I thought it was common knowledge
Why, in your opinion, nobody attacked in 2012? Because no one had to. Gaps were so small everyone could win the Giro with just one attack. So everyone waited until the Stelvio because no one felt self confident enough. There were no attackers there, true... but let's not forget that Basso was able to win two Giros attacking at more than 30 kms to go. And Scarponi and Purito were there on Gardeccia.
Still none of them did nothing.
Purito attacked on the last km of the Stelvio. Because he felt he didn't need anything more. That's all. Had there been a TT before the mountains, it would be different.
Just like 2010 was beautiful only thanks to L'Aquila. It created gaps. Let's not forget the stage to Terminillo.

And how can you create gaps? Either you put a Zoncolan in the first 5 days, or you put a long ITT.

 

[airstream]

ok, but i don't believe in it. losing in tt won't make a climber stronger on a particular mountain day. one has the legs or not. that's the way it is.

 

[Eshnar]

ok, but i don't believe in it. losing in tt won't make a climber stronger on a particular mountain day. one has the legs or not. that's the way it is.

It doesn't make it stronger, who said that.
But it does make him feeling the urge to move. For example, remember Lago Laceno? Where Hesjedal was in big trouble but the gc guys just cruised together to the finish? They were "strong", but didn't make anything. Those are the situation that a good route should avoid.
If Basso at pampeago doesn't attack because he's feeling bad, there's no route that can help him. But if he doesn't attack because he's thinking of the Stelvio, well that IS a problem of the route.

 

[airstream]

It doesn't make it stronger, who said that.
But it does make him feeling the urge to move.

to hope for that is optimistic. for recent year we had only caddie who flipped himself on croix-de-fer. what's more?

If Basso at pampeago doesn't attack because he's feeling bad, there's no route that can help him.

right, but basso himself got he was bad only before 3-4 last k at pampeago.

 

[Eshnar]

to hope for that is optimistic. for recent year we had only caddie who flipped himself on croix-de-fer. what's more?

2010 is a recent year.

right, but basso himself got he was bad only before 3-4 last k at pampeago.

because he did try something at 4 to go... so what?

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

New rumour by Tuttosport:

The article then adds that there won't be 2 ITTs

That's great news, actually. You can design a close to perfect GT, but if you don't consider the relative strength of the teams (meaning a ridiculously strong Sky and Wiggins) it will almost certainly be a borefest of epic proportions. Really, who needs two flat ITTs and a "mountain" TT that favors Wiggins?

 

[Descender]

Why are you guys talking about Wiggins as if he was going to ride next year's Giro?

 

[Eshnar]

That's great news, actually. You can design a close to perfect GT, but if you don't consider the relative strength of the teams (meaning a ridiculously strong Sky and Wiggins) it will almost certainly be a borefest of epic proportions. Really, who needs two flat ITTs and a "mountain" TT that favors Wiggins?

Wiggins won't come. If there was the slightest chance for him to come, it will die when he'll look at the route.
On the other hand, the 2012 Wiggins is likely to dominate the Giro in the mountains too, so what's the difference.

 

[airstream]

wiggo would throw these guys out like indurain in 1995. though, he's not a cannibal actually. bradley will gain a 5 minutes advantage and start giving climbing lessons.

what means, 'in mountains too', Eshnar? any other options?)

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Why are you guys talking about Wiggins as if he was going to ride next year's Giro?

Persistent rumors seemed to point in that direction.

Wiggins won't come. If there was the slightest chance for him to come, it will die when he'll look at the route.
On the other hand, the 2012 Wiggins is likely to dominate the Giro in the mountains too, so what's the difference.

The flat TT may be a long one this time. Also, he didn't dominate Nibali in the mountains.

Of course, if the TDF route is favorable to him he won't even consider to start.

 

[Eshnar]

The flat TT may be a long one this time. Also, he didn't dominate Nibali in the mountains.

Let's dream together my friend.
But the rumours say it will be the same dull 30 kms.

 

[airstream]

dream about what? a 50km tt? wiggo vs italians? or basso against scarponi who will die later?

 

[Eshnar]

dream about what? a 50km tt? wiggo vs italians? or basso against scarponi who will die later?

a 50 kms itt. Preferably before the mountains.

 

[airstream]

a 50 kms itt. Preferably before the mountains.

with wiggins on the board it would be the end of the giro.
with basso and scarponi..such a long tt would exhaust them soo much... hard to expect brave attacks.

 

[Michele]

Cause Wiggins wouldnt lose time on Dolomiti?