Giro 2017, stage 18: Moena - Ortisei 137 km

[Carols]

Re:

Usually cyclists try to avoid being cocky and/or overconfident, because everybody who did race knows that a bad day/luck is always behind the corner.
Insulting your opponents isn't a smart idea... though there is no doubt TomD has the best legs so far.

This!!!! He is arrogant.....people say he is the new Indurain. Well maybe he can climb and ITT near to Big Mig. But his class level is in the basement compared to Mig's. Mig was always very humble and never criticized a rival, never mind taunt them on the road and say in an interview he hopes they lose their spots. Tom D better hope his legs hold out, it certainly appears they will. But treating your competition with contempt is very Low Class IMO. This guy is No Big Mig who was the epitome of class.

 

[Arked]

Re: Re:

I find it strange that he really thinks that Nibali and Quintana should've worked for him.

Agreed. He's not thinking straight there. It doesn't make any sense. It's up to the leader to protect his position, always.

He protected his position very well. He signaled couple of times his wish to ride together which was fair offer. They didn't want to so he stopped riding. He couldn't care less about Pinot, Pozzovivo and Zakarin when he had his main rivals around him.

:lol: who is wearing the pink jersey ?

The pink jersey has to defend the pink jersey. The pink jersey wasn't in danger. He doesn't have to ride because he has the pink jersey...

It was not in immediate danger, but it is getting close now.. Some many contestants within a couple of minutes now, this could be a tactical nightmare in the next two days. Like it was said, Nibali and Quintana don't really care about getting 2nd or 3rd, they are multiple GT winners. Dumoulin should have ridden, he made a mistake there.

Yes it might be problematic but there are only two stages left.19th is to easy to lose his teammates before start of Piancavallo, so he will have teammates to cover most of the attacks. 20th is more difficult but I seriously doubt he will drop on Montegrappa before other GC contenders do.

 

[talbet]

Nibali and Quintana must believe that Dumoulin is truly a beast if they resort to these weirdest tactics to beat him. I'm starting to like this whole cycling thing.

 

[carton]

The fun thing is that Nibali and Quintana have been marking each other and attacking each other even more than Dumoulin so far this Giro. Tom probably said that out of frustration over that last kick up to the line, but it's just going to get worse for him in that respect. Although, of course, if he continues to be this strong it won't matter.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

Re:

Nibali and Quintana must believe that Dumoulin is truly a beast if they resort to these weirdest tactics to beat him. I'm starting to like this whole cycling thing.

Clearly he is a beast right now

 

[Geraint Too Fast]

Re: Re:

Does Dupont take the prize for best ninja. I have seen him about twice this year.

He is here?

I was watching some results from last year and noticed him and thought how I didn't heard of him this year. My first thought: He didn't come and is focusing on the Tour and I didn't bother to double check it. Guess I'm wrong. :lol:

Before the Giro he actually said he was going to be more aggressive and forget about the GC, but it seems old habits die hard.

 

[mavmav]

Re: Re:

Usually cyclists try to avoid being cocky and/or overconfident, because everybody who did race knows that a bad day/luck is always behind the corner.
Insulting your opponents isn't a smart idea... though there is no doubt TomD has the best legs so far.

This!!!! He is arrogant.....people say he is the new Indurain. Well maybe he can climb and ITT near to Big Mig. But his class level is in the basement compared to Mig's. Mig was always very humble and never criticized a rival, never mind taunt them on the road and say in an interview he hopes they lose their spots. Tom D better hope his legs hold out, it certainly appears they will. But treating your competition with contempt is very Low Class IMO. This guy is No Big Mig who was the epitome of class.

This always amazes me.

People are honest and speak their mind -> So arrogant!

People are dishonest and suck up to others - > So humble!

Must be a cultural thing...

 

[SafeBet]

Always said I love a bit of trashtalking in cycling. Good old Wiggo had his own thing with Nibali in the 2012 Tour and it was probably the most entertaining thing in the whole tour.

I don't blame Dumoulin. I just think it was in his best interest to keep as many friends as possible inside and outside the peloton. He might need them, even if it seems unlikely at this point.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Usually cyclists try to avoid being cocky and/or overconfident, because everybody who did race knows that a bad day/luck is always behind the corner.
Insulting your opponents isn't a smart idea... though there is no doubt TomD has the best legs so far.

This!!!! He is arrogant.....people say he is the new Indurain. Well maybe he can climb and ITT near to Big Mig. But his class level is in the basement compared to Mig's. Mig was always very humble and never criticized a rival, never mind taunt them on the road and say in an interview he hopes they lose their spots. Tom D better hope his legs hold out, it certainly appears they will. But treating your competition with contempt is very Low Class IMO. This guy is No Big Mig who was the epitome of class.

This always amazes me.

People are honest and speak their mind -> So arrogant!

People are dishonest and suck up to others - > So humble!

Must be a cultural thing...

Definitely this. The Dutch are famously arrogant aren't they? The likes of Johan Cruyff, Terpstra. Guys who grow up in a small village in rural Navarra, probably couldn't get away with acting like that.

Dumoulin doesn't seem so bad anyway; it's kind of a very fine line between directness/plain speaking and arrogance. And he's usually on the right side of the line imo.

 

[spalco]

It's hilarious that Dumoulin apparently got under Nibali's skin with that remark.

Yes he's cocky, but he's the race leader, and he puts himself out there by saying things like that. People who like him, will like him even more if he wins after this, and also it would be all the more delicious for the people who don't like him if he fails.

 

[DanielSong39]

I have no idea why Dumoulin is mad.
He vanquished Nibali and Quintana today and will clearly win the Giro.
As for race tactics, Nibali and Quintana got it 100% correct. They didn't have the legs to distance Dumoulin anyway so why not just let the others go. They would've blown up if they tried to chase. Better just to make Dumoulin work and try again tomorrow.
As for tomorrow, it's actually advantageous for Nibali and Quintana to follow Dumoulin's wheel unless (1) Dumoulin cracks, (2) they can easily distance him, or (3) Pinot/Zakarin is 3 minutes or more up the road.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I am with Dumo, I hope Quintana and Nibali lose their podium
A podium of Dumo - Tibo - Zaka <3

 

[HelloDolly]

I think Tom is arrogant but every top sports champion is arrogant
It goes with the terraine ...it is a supreme self confidence ...
This why I think he and not Quintana/Chaves/Yates Twins will be the heir to Froome/Contador

 

[Escarabajo]

Hey this Giro has more fights off the bikes than on the bikes. Keep it coming! Lol.

 

[mavmav]

Re:

Always said I love a bit of trashtalking in cycling. Good old Wiggo had his own thing with Nibali in the 2012 Tour and it was probably the most entertaining thing in the whole tour.

I don't blame Dumoulin. I just think it was in his best interest to keep as many friends as possible inside and outside the peloton. He might need them, even if it seems unlikely at this point.

I think his remarks will affirm the perception that people have of him. Good or bad. And I have the impression that he's fairly well liked inside and outside the peloton so it doesn't really hurt his image.

 

[Jungle Cycle]

I understand why Nibali+Quintana didnt go after Pinot but i really think Tom didnt need to go after as well. As mentioned before, aside from poopgate, he hasnt been in trouble in almost 3 weeks now, even against powerful teams with multiple excellent riders working against him. Plus there is the itt "cushion". So why bother chase Pinot today?
Having said that, while his comments were "fun" but doesnt help him at all. If I'm not mistaken he also "sounded" confidant at vuelta untill that day. Of course this is a different Tom but still, it doesnt help. ANY little trouble now wont be forgiven...

 

[mavmav]

Re:

I have no idea why Dumoulin is mad.
He vanquished Nibali and Quintana today and will clearly win the Giro.
As for race tactics, Nibali and Quintana got it 100% correct. They didn't have the legs to distance Dumoulin anyway so why not just let the others go. They would've blown up if they tried to chase. Better just to make Dumoulin work and try again tomorrow.
As for tomorrow, it's actually advantageous for Nibali and Quintana to follow Dumoulin's wheel unless (1) Dumoulin cracks, (2) they can easily distance him, or (3) Pinot/Zakarin is 3 minutes or more up the road.

Dumoulin can let (3) happen. Maybe not 3 minutes, but Movistar would start riding at 1.30 anyway. Unless their aim is to make Tom lose the Pink jersey, and not for Quintana to win it.

And that's why Nibali and Q were riding stupid today. While they might not care about 2nd or 3rd, Pinot and Zak will. They are now actively in the podium battle and an attack of Nibali and Q on Dumoulin has now also become an attack on Pinot and Zak's podium chances.

 

[Carols]

Re: Re:

Usually cyclists try to avoid being cocky and/or overconfident, because everybody who did race knows that a bad day/luck is always behind the corner.
Insulting your opponents isn't a smart idea... though there is no doubt TomD has the best legs so far.

This!!!! He is arrogant.....people say he is the new Indurain. Well maybe he can climb and ITT near to Big Mig. But his class level is in the basement compared to Mig's. Mig was always very humble and never criticized a rival, never mind taunt them on the road and say in an interview he hopes they lose their spots. Tom D better hope his legs hold out, it certainly appears they will. But treating your competition with contempt is very Low Class IMO. This guy is No Big Mig who was the epitome of class.

This always amazes me.

People are honest and speak their mind -> So arrogant!

People are dishonest and suck up to others - > So humble!

Must be a cultural thing...

Must be if you think Tom Big Mouth is a classy guy. Either that or a generational thing.

 

[Orbit501]

Just watched the stage back.

So happy for TJVG. That's a fighters win after all the criticism he's had to suffer. Such a deserved 1st GT stage win.

Like Rolland's well deserved win yesterday, today's result has made me smile.

Tom D's Giro now I would think too. Quintana clearly suffering.

 

[mavmav]

Re: Re:

Usually cyclists try to avoid being cocky and/or overconfident, because everybody who did race knows that a bad day/luck is always behind the corner.
Insulting your opponents isn't a smart idea... though there is no doubt TomD has the best legs so far.

This!!!! He is arrogant.....people say he is the new Indurain. Well maybe he can climb and ITT near to Big Mig. But his class level is in the basement compared to Mig's. Mig was always very humble and never criticized a rival, never mind taunt them on the road and say in an interview he hopes they lose their spots. Tom D better hope his legs hold out, it certainly appears they will. But treating your competition with contempt is very Low Class IMO. This guy is No Big Mig who was the epitome of class.

This always amazes me.

People are honest and speak their mind -> So arrogant!

People are dishonest and suck up to others - > So humble!

Must be a cultural thing...

Must be if you think Tom Big Mouth is a classy guy. Either that or a generational thing.

Well in this case it's probably a "boohoo, my favourite rider is losing" thing. But I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Escarabajo]

Memories of Pedro Delgado's win at La Vuelta in 1985 come to my mind!

It would be funny if that happened.

 

[Arked]

Re: Re:

I have no idea why Dumoulin is mad.
He vanquished Nibali and Quintana today and will clearly win the Giro.
As for race tactics, Nibali and Quintana got it 100% correct. They didn't have the legs to distance Dumoulin anyway so why not just let the others go. They would've blown up if they tried to chase. Better just to make Dumoulin work and try again tomorrow.
As for tomorrow, it's actually advantageous for Nibali and Quintana to follow Dumoulin's wheel unless (1) Dumoulin cracks, (2) they can easily distance him, or (3) Pinot/Zakarin is 3 minutes or more up the road.

Dumoulin can let (3) happen. Maybe not 3 minutes, but Movistar would start riding at 1.30 anyway. Unless their aim is to make Tom lose the Pink jersey, and not for Quintana to win it.

And that's why Nibali and Q were riding stupid today. While they might not care about 2nd or 3rd, Pinot and Zak will. They are now actively in the podium battle and an attack of Nibali and Q on Dumoulin has now also become an attack on Pinot and Zak's podium chances.

It can go two ways. Either there will be agreement between Movistar, Bahrain, Katusha and FDJ to break Dumoulin. Or Quintana and Nibali will be marked now by Katusha and FDJ (.. and AG2R?) as podium competitors. I think second scenario is more likely to happen.

 

[DanielSong39]

Re: Re:

I have no idea why Dumoulin is mad.
He vanquished Nibali and Quintana today and will clearly win the Giro.
As for race tactics, Nibali and Quintana got it 100% correct. They didn't have the legs to distance Dumoulin anyway so why not just let the others go. They would've blown up if they tried to chase. Better just to make Dumoulin work and try again tomorrow.
As for tomorrow, it's actually advantageous for Nibali and Quintana to follow Dumoulin's wheel unless (1) Dumoulin cracks, (2) they can easily distance him, or (3) Pinot/Zakarin is 3 minutes or more up the road.

Dumoulin can let (3) happen. Maybe not 3 minutes, but Movistar would start riding at 1.30 anyway. Unless their aim is to make Tom lose the Pink jersey, and not for Quintana to win it.

And that's why Nibali and Q were riding stupid today. While they might not care about 2nd or 3rd, Pinot and Zak will. They are now actively in the podium battle and an attack of Nibali and Q on Dumoulin has now also become an attack on Pinot and Zak's podium chances.

1:30 is too early; Dumoulin is much stronger on the TT so from a strategic standpoint you should let them go a little further out.

 

[DanielSong39]

Re: Re:

I have no idea why Dumoulin is mad.
He vanquished Nibali and Quintana today and will clearly win the Giro.
As for race tactics, Nibali and Quintana got it 100% correct. They didn't have the legs to distance Dumoulin anyway so why not just let the others go. They would've blown up if they tried to chase. Better just to make Dumoulin work and try again tomorrow.
As for tomorrow, it's actually advantageous for Nibali and Quintana to follow Dumoulin's wheel unless (1) Dumoulin cracks, (2) they can easily distance him, or (3) Pinot/Zakarin is 3 minutes or more up the road.

Dumoulin can let (3) happen. Maybe not 3 minutes, but Movistar would start riding at 1.30 anyway. Unless their aim is to make Tom lose the Pink jersey, and not for Quintana to win it.

And that's why Nibali and Q were riding stupid today. While they might not care about 2nd or 3rd, Pinot and Zak will. They are now actively in the podium battle and an attack of Nibali and Q on Dumoulin has now also become an attack on Pinot and Zak's podium chances.

It can go two ways. Either there will be agreement between Movistar, Bahrain, Katusha and FDJ to break Dumoulin. Or Quintana and Nibali will be marked now by Katusha and FDJ (.. and AG2R?) as podium competitors. I think second scenario is more likely to happen.

Pinot and Zakarin are marking the podium places, but that doesn't prevent Quintana and Nibali from playing chicken. Personally I'd love to see one of the two pull off a ninja move and steal the Giro.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

I think Tom is arrogant but every top sports champion is arrogant
It goes with the terraine ...it is a supreme self confidence ...
This why I think he and not Quintana/Chaves/Yates Twins will be the heir to Froome/Contador

Firstly he's hardly a champion, and secondly not every champion is arrogant, look at Boonen, Contador, Valverde...