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Giro d'Italia Giro d‘Italia 2024 Stage 15, Manerba del Garda-Livigno (Mottolino), 222 km

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Brullnux

Mar 31, 2015
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Blanco said:
Vingegaard, Roglic, Evenepoel, Bernal, Ayuso, A.Yates, S.Yates, C.Rodriguez, Kuss, Landa, Hindley, Carapaz, Tao, Almeida, Mas.

Apart from Pogacar, only Thomas, out of this Giro crew, belongs in this company.
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Visma, Bora, Quickstep, Ineos, UAE, UAE, Jayco, Ineos, Visma, Quickstep, Bora, UAE, EF, Trek, UAE, Movistar.

So basically you have four independent second/third tier GC riders. Mas only does Tour/Vuelta; Carapaz has been a bit erratic recently; Tao very erratic; S. Yates is fine but would probably come 3rd or 4th here anyway. The issue isn't necessarily about this Giro, it's that out of 18 riders (I'm adding Pogacar, Thomas, Martinez to this) you have 14 of them in the same five teams.
 
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Oldermanish

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proffate said:
Does Pog ever fail at one of these long rangers?
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there was nothing but upside for him today. The other contenders didn't put up much of a fight when he left with the GC lead he already held. Thomas, in particular; knew 2nd place was a good day rather than an explosion that put him way out of GC.
Quintana held on for a very respectable finish and had a valuable helper in the break group. Comparatively he was fresh, IMO. Steinhauser in particular paid for laying it all out.
Majka made this an easy launch for Tadej who appeared to press hard for about 1km before settling into a rythm that wasn't punishing him before a rest day. He hadn't had to do much of anything until that move and the effort the others invested was proportionately a long shot and made the whole "from another planet" evaluations as hyperventilated. He had little to lose and the race came to him.
Most of us thought/predicted Pogacar would take it easier until the TT and this stage. He definitely took advantage earlier than expected but his end game is solid: he can train the balance of the race getting whatever form he needs for the Tour ramp up. No one seems vested in a serious commitment to beating him now that he has 7 minutes on the next 3 podium hopefuls.

Whom among the rest of the GC will represent a solid Tour GC candidate?
 
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bNator

bNator

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Froome said:
No. The perfomance on Passo di Foscagno and the final 4 kms was way low in W/Kg compared to La loze, and Vingegaard in La loze had the Tour in the bag. He didn't needed to go full gas.

Vingegaard would had won with a good margin today, and with stages like this in the Tour without Unipuertos, it would be even more nice to Vingegaard finish the job more soon.

Besides that, the stage was easy until Foscagno, so the the kilojoule thing for Pogacar wasn't a problem. A good perfomance by Pogacar but was a sidewalk during all the stage with this competition and way of race.
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I happen to remember that during the race, you deemed Pog's attack destined to fail to the point it doesn't even make sense trying. Now it's easy-peasy all of a sudden. Vinge would do it on a fixie, if he was only here...
 
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Unterlenkerfahrend

Unterlenkerfahrend

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Sciatic said:
Hope you enjoyed the race!
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I did! I feel really vindicated that I gambled on Pog attacking on the Foscagno already but he's so far ahead of the competition and all his talk about having this stage in sight gave me a feeling that he didn't want to wait until the last climb. So we picked a good spot because he attacked about 1km before and we got a lot of guys passing individually, which was cool.

Couple of highlights (mainly from riders who past me solo):
- Narvaez gave me a big smile when I shouted "VAMOSSSS JHONNY!" as he passed us, probably was just amused about my terrible accent.
- I told Schachmann (in German) that its not that far anymore, he laughed, gave me the I'm done hand gesture and told me he is cooked.
- Davide Ballerini made my day, when he passed us (as part of the groupetto I think) he asked a soigneur from his team next to us who had won (staged had just finished). When he heard it was Pogacar he threw his hand in the air and gave a disapproving snort. Absolute legend hahaha
- Even if he is not going for the stage, Alaphilippe is as twitchy on the bike as you can be.
- Jersey similarities seem to get worse every year. AG2R, Groupama, Israel, DSM and Soudal QS all look so fecking similar, it's such a mess to figure out who is who when you have them in sight for about 5 seconds.
- When we drove back after the stage we had to go through the finish area and down to Livigno, there were hundreds of people standing by the road side hoping to get a ride down to Livigno. We stopped because we had 3 empty spaces at the back, 5 Italians however entered haha. Obviously gave them a ride anyway, I reckoned if the police would stop us they would be able to talk us out of it (I don't speak Italian).
 
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bNator

bNator

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Froome said:
The "problem" is that this version of Thomas is not the Thomas of previous years, and it's something normal, he is 37/38 right?
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What are you basing your claims on besides the inconvenient implication of Thomas being the Thomas of previous years - which is Vingegaard's gonna have some work to do...

And about your so called Tier two where Hindley, Mas and Carapaz are somehow better than Thomas and Martinez... If there is a tier, populated by Hindley, Mas and Carapaz then Thomas and Martinez stand firmly within that tier.
 
tobydawq

tobydawq

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bNator said:
What are you basing your claims on besides the inconvenient implication of Thomas being the Thomas of previous years - which is Vingegaard's gonna have some work to do...

And about your so called Tier two where Hindley, Mas and Carapaz are somehow better than Thomas and Martinez... If there is a tier, populated by Hindley, Mas and Carapaz then Thomas and Martinez stand firmly within that tier.
Click to expand...

One time top 10 on GC Martínez on the level of Grand Tour winners Carapaz and Hindley, mhmm?
 
QueenStagiaire

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bNator

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tobydawq said:
One time top 10 on GC Martínez on the level of Grand Tour winners Carapaz and Hindley, mhmm?
Click to expand...
Actually, if we are talking about Carpaz, Martinez is probably a level above him even, at the moment.

But the real question is why would we assume the field is weak due to Martinez's strong showing instead of assuming Martinez has finally unlocked his potential - which was there since Dauphine 2020 and could be observed when single-handedly bringing Bernal through those last mountain stages to keep his pink jersey in 2021 Giro as well as winning several other one-week races. To me, Martinez is on the same level as Roglic was in 2018. 2nd tier comfortably...
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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bNator said:
Actually, if we are talking about Carpaz, Martinez is probably a level above him even, at the moment.

But the real question is why would we assume the field is weak due to Martinez's strong showing instead of assuming Martinez has finally unlocked his potential - which was there since Dauphine 2020 and could be observed when single-handedly bringing Bernal through those last mountain stages to keep his pink jersey in 2021 Giro as well as winning several other one-week races. To me, Martinez is on the same level as Roglic was in 2018. 2nd tier comfortably...
Click to expand...
I think Arensman being able to put the hurt on the GC group while supposedly missing form, Bardet riding away and staying away from that group, Hirt and Rubio only getting dropped in the last 1k, and that group not or barely gaining on Quintana since Pog attacked, are perhaps bigger indications that the overall level is not that high.
 
Froome

Froome

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
I think Arensman being able to put the hurt on the GC group while supposedly missing form, Bardet riding away and staying away from that group, Hirt and Rubio only getting dropped in the last 1k, and that group not or barely gaining on Quintana since Pog attacked, are perhaps bigger indications that the overall level is not that high.
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Majka recovered and stayed with the group of "GC riders". This situation says everything.

One of the worst fields ever of the Giro.
 
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Sciatic

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Unterlenkerfahrend said:
I did! I feel really vindicated that I gambled on Pog attacking on the Foscagno already but he's so far ahead of the competition and all his talk about having this stage in sight gave me a feeling that he didn't want to wait until the last climb. So we picked a good spot because he attacked about 1km before and we got a lot of guys passing individually, which was cool.

Couple of highlights (mainly from riders who past me solo):
- Narvaez gave me a big smile when I shouted "VAMOSSSS JHONNY!" as he passed us, probably was just amused about my terrible accent.
- I told Schachmann (in German) that its not that far anymore, he laughed, gave me the I'm done hand gesture and told me he is cooked.
- Davide Ballerini made my day, when he passed us (as part of the groupetto I think) he asked a soigneur from his team next to us who had won (staged had just finished). When he heard it was Pogacar he threw his hand in the air and gave a disapproving snort. Absolute legend hahaha
- Even if he is not going for the stage, Alaphilippe is as twitchy on the bike as you can be.
- Jersey similarities seem to get worse every year. AG2R, Groupama, Israel, DSM and Soudal QS all look so fecking similar, it's such a mess to figure out who is who when you have them in sight for about 5 seconds.
- When we drove back after the stage we had to go through the finish area and down to Livigno, there were hundreds of people standing by the road side hoping to get a ride down to Livigno. We stopped because we had 3 empty spaces at the back, 5 Italians however entered haha. Obviously gave them a ride anyway, I reckoned if the police would stop us they would be able to talk us out of it (I don't speak Italian).
Click to expand...
Thanks for the excellent recap—those experiences are so worth the effort to make it happen!
 
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