Giro d'Italia 2011: Stage 13 Spilimbergo to Grossglockner

[benpounder]

...on paper at least, the Crostis is harder than the Mortirolo...

On paper, Crostis is harder than Zoncolon.

On paper by grade, length and height it [Crostis] is the toughest climb in the Giro this year I think (not the highest peak)

On paper, Colle Delle Finestre is the toughest - by a good margin.

 

[veganrob]

Rujano takes stage only if Alberto lets him. He may have let him take Etna but Rujano was too scared to go around.

 

[GoAndyGo]

On paper, Colle Delle Finestre is the toughest - by a good margin.

I think Crostis is steeper (avg. grad wise). The maps on gazetta are a bity m,isleading. They have the climb on the Crostis marked a bit up the mountain already. There must be a flat break going up the first portion. Colle Delle Finestre is a bit longer. I was referring to the severity of the climb. I typed it a bit confusing I think. Sorry.

Anyway back on target as to not hijack the thread since this is for the Grossglockner climb.

I see Lampre dragging Scarponi up the stage again and breaking apart the peleton quickly. They have done a lot of work on the front in the mountains and Contador has already said he is not putting a pedal on the front to pound out even a meter of pace to protect the maglia rosa (thats a disgrace to the maglia rosa, unfortunetely typical of Contador).

I'd like to see Serpa or Garzelli take off near Kasereck. I just don't see Scarponi doing anything from what he has shown so far.

 

[The Hitch]

On paper by grade, length and height it is the toughest climb in the Giro this year I think (not the highest peak).

On paper, Crostis is harder than Zoncolon.

On paper, Colle Delle Finestre is the toughest - by a good margin.

Negative. Zoncolan is the hardest. Its 1km shorter but 2 % higher gradient than Crostis. 12% over 10k beats 10% over 11 even if the latter is unpaved.

Against Finnestre its different battle because Finnestre is steep and long, but a 9.2% average means that slipstream exists more on Finnestre, and its steady rather than providing the huge ramps Zoncolan does.

The site Almetriaswhile not the be all end all, gives Zoncolan an untouchable 586 rating for difficulty. Finestre with 471 is beaten only by a 515 Angliru and a 474 Mortirolo.

Considering that Ventoux is given 380 Stelvio 348 and Alpe is considered half as difficult with 228, Finestre is one of those out of this world climbs no doubt but I think Zoncolan is still king.

Crostis is not rated here but its similarity to ZOncolan suggests it would be somewhere around Angliru.

 

[benpounder]

The site Almetriaswhile not the be all end all, gives Zoncolan an untouchable 586 rating for difficulty. Finestre with 471 is beaten only by a 515 Angliru and a 474 Mortirolo.

Not knowing spanish, I can not offer a knowledgable opinion of your site. If you could translate and post (or send to me) the equation they use, I'd be happy to evaluate it. As I posted a while ago, I would really like to put together a clearly defined database that ranks climbs.

On to the specifics: The equation I use ranks Crostis at 208, Zoncolon at 207 and Finestre at 224. Yes, Zoncolon is steeper than Crostis (11. 9% to 10.1%) but Crostis is longer (14.0km to 10.1km). Finistre shames both at 18.5km, but an average gradient of only 9.2%. Of course, the top 8km is unpaved. On that steep of a climb, the slipstream effect is nearly negligible due primarily to the constant change of direction (I would exclude climbs such as Ventoux where the general direction does not change and prevailing winds howl), but also to the slow speeds. Grinding a 39x24 on a 9.8% is not much different than grinding a 39x28 on a 12%; in neither situation are you creating an upslope draft of significant force to aid a rider behind.

That said, I certainly may be wrong. Ive only riden a handful of the nasty Giro climbs, none of the Pyrnean climbs and dozens of the Alps. The equation I use matches nicely with my impressions of the climbs that I have riden. In other words, I have only mathematical formulas with which I can compare these three beasts - climbing any one of them using the gearing that the pros will use is beyond me.

And as to the suffering each might dole out, it reminds me of the parlor game, which way would you rather die?

 

[Ferminal]

Zoncolan's guts is the 4-5km at over 15%.

Finestre has it in length but hardly goes over 10%.

Crostis is about equal with Mortirolo - there will be a forced selection. I wouldn't expect more than 5 to be together in the first GC group.

 

[Scirea]

Back to Grossglocker.

Because of the real bloodbath coming up Saturday and Sunday, i don't expect a big selection tomorrow among the favs.

 

[seaby71]

i think sella may be the one today and rujano. i think they will get in a break and stay away. i think the favs will sit and watch each other today. as often happens in the TDF just prior to some big syages. Also dont think contador wants to cook his team to soon, and may even hand up the pink.

 

[Ryaguas]

as often happens in the TDF just prior to some big syages

This is not Le Tour so expect big fireworks...
If They wait for Zoncolan they are crazy... big climbs and very steeps is the natural habitat of an rare animal called Contador

 

[benpounder]

Zoncolan's guts is the 4-5km at over 15%.

Finestre has it in length but hardly goes over 10%...

And it rarely goes under 9%, for 18.5km.

 

[hfer07]

oddly enough- Contador himself rates the Angliru as a harder climb than the Zoncolan-since the Italian climb has a constant pitch to maintain a constant rhythm, whereas the Spaniard monster has those deceiving flatted segments followed by those 21% walls....
http://video.gazzetta.it/giro-di-italia-2011/index.shtml
(go to the 26 Aprile 2011 video)

 

[offbyone]

This is not Le Tour so expect big fireworks...
If They wait for Zoncolan they are crazy... big climbs and very steeps is the natural habitat of an rare animal called Contador

I agree.

Honestly i think the only option is for all the other teams to just let breaks go and refuse to chase. Risky, but they need to force saxo to be completely blown before they even get to the climb. Contador has to be alone for a long time.

 

[luckyboy]

Back to Grossglocker.

Because of the real bloodbath coming up Saturday and Sunday, i don't expect a big selection tomorrow among the favs.

I was going to say this, but I expect people will try to break Contador somehow at every opportunity now.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I was going to say this, but I expect people will try to break Contador somehow at every opportunity now.

By trying to break Contador they may break themselves. I woulnd't mind a break taking this, prefferably tschopp or frank

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I was going to say this, but I expect people will try to break Contador somehow at every opportunity now.

I think all have already given up on beating contador except androni

 

[luckyboy]

They'll have to try and break his team anyway. Somebody will have to do something.

If every stage is just going to Contador handing everybody's *** to them again (Etna magnified) then this Giro won't have been a very good one.

 

[craig1985]

I have a feeling Serpa will win a stage somewhere in the Giro. Probably Stages 17 or 18.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

he definetely deserves it.

 

[craig1985]

he definetely deserves it.

How confident are you on Sella getting a stage win? Given how far down on GC he is, I don't think Contador will give two ****s if Sella attacks and gets a stage win.

 

[Scirea]

How confident are you on Sella getting a stage win? Given how far down on GC he is, I don't think Contador will give two ****s if Sella attacks and gets a stage win.

Not sure he is strong enough right now. Are you sure he is going to win if he will be in the right break with guys like Pozzovivo or Tiralongo? I'm not.

 

[Scirea]

Btw i would say Pozzovivo wins one of the three stages but i was disappointed in him too many times...

 

[Finbouy]

All gone a bit OT this thread ain't it..

Today my predictions are simple. It'll be held together well by the bunch with all the faves sticking like glue to each other.
So it's time once again for a climber to pop out whose down on GC with a few lads in a break and give it some.
If they let Rodriguez go or Sella then I'm happy I've stuck Kreuz in there as I think he's not doing too much at the moment and this could be his day for putting his foot down. Arroyo I'd like to kick a bit and show some form. But if my heart was really into a wild card, which I know will never happen, it'd be Porte.

So...

Sella
Rodriguez
Kreuziger
Arroyo
Cataldo
Anton
Menchov or Sastre

 

[Mellow Velo]

That said, I certainly may be wrong. Ive only riden a handful of the nasty Giro climbs, none of the Pyrnean climbs and dozens of the Alps. The equation I use matches nicely with my impressions of the climbs that I have riden. In other words, I have only mathematical formulas with which I can compare these three beasts - climbing any one of them using the gearing that the pros will use is beyond me.

I am with you on this. Last time they went up Finestre in absolutely perfect conditions and the gaps at the top were huge.
Salvodelli had lost 2 and a half minutes and the pink jersey, but was only just behind the second handful of riders over.
Folks are completely ignoring the fact that it is unsurfaced over a length greater than 75% of the Zoncolan's total length.
It is very long and relentless.

Torn with today. They may actually race the GC in stages 13 and 14, but let a winning break go in 15, when the time gaps have been established.
On the other hand, I can see Sella or his like, going up the road today and maybe Sunday, in search of a win and the mountain jersey.
If they do wait for the weekend, some decent climber from a breakaway could take it.

 

[wirral]

3 tunnels today. Expect a lot of gloom.

 

[Midnightfright]

Don't think today will be th e day for a long break away. the question is if a non GC threat will pop of the front in the closing stages and stay away. I expect rujano to have another go and I'm tempted to pick him bit I'm also wary he wont be allowed to get away do will think it will be a sprint between the GC favs and will go Bertie because he seems keen to assert dominance, my backup pick is kreuizger.