Giro d'Italia 2018 stage 6: Caltanissetta - Etna 164 km

[carton]

Re: Re:

He has.

I sort of agree with DFA. Not about Valverde, at least in 2018. And I do think the Giro has a pretty strong startlist.

But look at the Froome/Contador duels or the Froome/Quintana duels or Landa/Contador/Aru at the Giro. Froome and some version of Fabio Aru are the two riders in this race that have been able to really force selections among peak-form GT contenders. Yates, Pinot, Chaves, Lopez and Dumoulin could all get there someday but they haven't shown it yet. I think Dumoulin kind of did by going head-to-head with Nibali and Quintana, but he's only done it once, and he wasn't the one forcing things.

So I the Giro is not that loaded, in a way: there's no guarantee that the winner will be fully tested. But I think that's the wrong way to see it. I think we can look back at that once the race is over.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

He has.

I sort of agree with DFA. Not about Valverde, at least in 2018. And I do think the Giro has a pretty strong startlist.

But look at the Froome/Contador duels or the Froome/Quintana duels or Landa/Contador/Aru at the Giro. Froome and some version of Fabio Aru are the two riders in this race that have been able to really force selections among peak-form GT contenders. Yates, Pinot, Chaves, Lopez and Dumoulin could all get there someday but they haven't shown it yet. I think Dumoulin kind of did by going head-to-head with Nibali and Quintana, but he's only done it once, and he wasn't the one forcing things.

So I the Giro is not that loaded, in a way: there's no guarantee that the winner will be fully tested. But I think that's the wrong way to see it. I think we can look back at that once the race is over.

I agree with your beginning but not the end.

Whomever wins the Giro will be fully tested.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

How is Yates plainly the better GC hope? He is clearly very good right now, granted. He is yet however to prove himself among the best in the hardest stages, ever. Neither the Tour last year nor the Vuelta the year before was close to what Chaves did in '16. If it wasn't because Yates clearly were in the form of his life, I'd have Chaves ahead of him. Right now I'd have them equal in the pecking order.

Indeed. MS aren’t forced to make a choice yet, with the flat stages coming up QS will take a lot of responsibility for Viviani and the climbing ability of Kreuziger, Nieve and Haig should be enough to delay any need to sacrifice one of Yates and Chaves for the other.

Even if they do end up having to ride on the flat Tuft, Bewley and Juul Jensen are more than capable. It looks like White has picked this squad expecting to defend both GC riders as long as possible.

 

[Salvarani]

Re:

How is Yates plainly the better GC hope? He is clearly very good right now, granted. He is yet however to prove himself among the best in the hardest stages, ever. Neither the Tour last year nor the Vuelta the year before was close to what Chaves did in '16. If it wasn't because Yates clearly were in the form of his life, I'd have Chaves ahead of him. Right now I'd have them equal in the pecking order.

It is pretty simple. Yates has the jersey and Chaves wont attack as long as Yates has the jersey and showing he is in great form.

If he gets dropped or looses it... then Chaves will be right there to step in. Assuming he is still there also.

Right now nobody knows how Yates is gonna go with having the jersey in the up coming stages or in the last week. That is very far ahead right now in the race. Like you mentioned he has not showed this before or been in this position, but he is right now. The team gotta believe in their rider and give him the support. This might be the breakthrough for him and he will establish himself for the future as one of the better GT-riders. Who knows? There is a first time for everything...

 

[Escarabajo]

Lopez came with the other GC contenders and is still 22nd on GC. LOL. He really put himself out of contention for GC very quickly. Hope he keeps improving for the sake of the spectacle.

 

[JosephK]

Re:

Looks like the Basque cloak of invisibility has been passed from Haimar Zubeldia to Pello Bilbao. 13th on the stage, 7th overall. Where was he lurking today?

Bilbao the next Zubeldia? Those are some very large invisible/stealth shoes to fill!

 

[JosephK]

Tiralongo was right: small time gaps. No one won or lost Il Giro today. No winners or losers in the grand scheme of things.
. . .
3. Dawg's fans are exuberant tonight...he didn't lose time. Excuse my French but WTF? The king of the ______/ didn't look too good. Where was the train after the steep, 5 km to go section?
. . .

My thoughts exactly. Some observers keep expecting Froome to rise from the ashes like a Phoenix (or a Nibali), but while I don't doubt that could still happen, I do not remember Froome ever having won a grand tour when he didn't appear to be far and away the strongest rider. People may point to last year's TDF, but it's apples and oranges. Everyone knew after watching the opening time trial -- with Sky's domestiques beating the reigning world champion, that Froome was a lock.

 

[Salvarani]

Hope Formolo can go for a couple of stages and the KOM competition.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

Perhaps a more productive direction for the discussion would be to ask DFA123 for a recent example of a GT that did have a "strong" field.

2015 Tour. Even the Giro last year was a strong start list. But then Landa and Quintana crashed, and Nibali was missing something, so in reality it wasn't so strong.

This years Giro field is very strong for a Giro field, whilst the Tour field will be weak for a Tour field IMO.

You are clearly over rating Landa. He isn't on the same level as Dumoulin as a GT rider (at least at this point in time). It would be like arguing that a GT GC field is stronger because it had Vino instead of Evans.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Tiralongo was right: small time gaps. No one won or lost Il Giro today. No winners or losers in the grand scheme of things.

1. Dennis didn't lose that much time. He can still aim at a top-10 (realistically more like a top 15) and keep his GT dreams alive.
2. 6 down and 14 to go (stage 21 is hugs and Prosecco), had Dumoulin been told that at this juncture, he would be one minute ahead of Froome, he would have signed it. He's playing it low key, didn't look really good today, but time is on his side. He'll BigMig everyone Luxembourg-style and when stage 16 is over, podium contenders will do most of the work for him, defending their spot...I disagree with Valv.Piti. Dumoulin is the champ, the man to beat, all these doubts only help him.
3. Dawg's fans are exuberant tonight...he didn't lose time. Excuse my French but WTF? The king of the ______/ didn't look too good. Where was the train after the steep, 5 km to go section?
4. Aru is the new Campionissimo. He's a GT winner. In ancient Mandarin, Fa-bio-a-roo means "the tiger waiting to pounce". Aru is to cycling what sunrise is to our day: Power and beauty. Fabio is not bad: he's biding his time...well, it has been two years of meditating, and the sensei looks like a shorter version of Steven Seagal, he's no Bruce Nibalee. He's very good, I'll let Netserk write the rest.
5. The yeast brothers can infect a race and leave many scratching themselves for dear life. Simon is riding really well, the question is: can he last?
6. The over-hyped Spanish speaking riders as I once called them: some posters (who so miss Alberto) already dismiss the field of this Giro: weak. Valverde's name comes up and that tells the story. Wrong Quintana, Bilbao not so athletic ...Nuf said. Chaves is a threat. Team tactics will be interesting...
7. Pozzovino attacks everyone, but has very little to show for. I like him and wish him the best.
8. Pinot struggled in the first part of the climb. Having Reichenbach in the break instead of pacing him may have been a mistake. He was good but not great, couldn't catch Simon, gets 4 seconds. Good, not great. But having Tibopino make it through week 1 unscathed is huge.

With so many tough stages coming up, it will come down to consistency over three weeks. That route is tough, and Etna is nothing compared to what's on the horizon. Great racing today. Gotta love il Giro.

Mostly agree.

Dennis' performance suggests that he might be improving as a climber and should continue to go for GC. We still have to see how his climbing can hold up in the third week though.

Froome's fans should be happy, if not exuberant. After his crash and poor ITT result, what more could be expected of him here? I don't think that his team matters much at this stage either, though in the past he has needed help on selective stages in the third week, so we'll see if that defeats him this time.

Aru is slightly under rated. Must be something with post Pantani Italians.

Not sure if Chaves' chances increased after stage 6. Was he really that strong, given the advantage of the breakaway? Would he have even held the wheel of the other contenders?

Yates is a serious threat. We can start to consider him at Porte's level.

 

[Robert5091]

Chapeau Mitchelton-Scott! Text book stuff - but why was Chaves allowed in the break?

So how many minutes will Chaves & Yates need over Tommy D before the ITT though?

Sky's Little Kenny E is quickly becoming a contender for the Vockler Gurning Trophy

 

[Bot. Sky_Bot]

Re: Re:

:razz: I've just watched it. Excellent stage with marvellous win of both, Yates&Chaves.
And quite entertaining discusssion, as almost always if CF is in competition.
Before the stage we all could get to know that CF:
- looked so bad;
- will lose more time;
- will ship more time off to his rivals;
- will be back driven by Poels;
- will lose every chance to win Giro;
- wiil be anywhere near the Giro win;
- will be buried on Etna (edit: excellent, replied few times );
- will attack backward (it was supposed to be funny, yeah?);
- will bleed ( :surprised: );
- will lose minutes.
During the stage we got to know CF is preparing volcanic attack, is cooked, is going backward, is dropped by Dumo well I ever.
Atfer the stage we have some well known hate, as "The Dawg isn't not dead, blech.." and some interesting points as:
- I get the feeling we are going to see a third week where he smashes the TT and the mountains, and
- Froome was much more better than expected..........

So really excellent stage, so entertaining, with a lot of laugh.

Just a note: It ain't all about Froome, you know?

Really? Which one wasn't?

 

[RedheadDane]

7. Pozzovino attacks everyone, but has very little to show for. I like him and wish him the best.

Deliberate?

 

[Escarabajo]

Tiralongo was right: small time gaps. No one won or lost Il Giro today. No winners or losers in the grand scheme of things.

1. Dennis didn't lose that much time. He can still aim at a top-10 (realistically more like a top 15) and keep his GT dreams alive.
2. 6 down and 14 to go (stage 21 is hugs and Prosecco), had Dumoulin been told that at this juncture, he would be one minute ahead of Froome, he would have signed it. He's playing it low key, didn't look really good today, but time is on his side. He'll BigMig everyone Luxembourg-style and when stage 16 is over, podium contenders will do most of the work for him, defending their spot...I disagree with Valv.Piti. Dumoulin is the champ, the man to beat, all these doubts only help him.
3. Dawg's fans are exuberant tonight...he didn't lose time. Excuse my French but WTF? The king of the ______/ didn't look too good. Where was the train after the steep, 5 km to go section?
4. Aru is the new Campionissimo. He's a GT winner. In ancient Mandarin, Fa-bio-a-roo means "the tiger waiting to pounce". Aru is to cycling what sunrise is to our day: Power and beauty. Fabio is not bad: he's biding his time...well, it has been two years of meditating, and the sensei looks like a shorter version of Steven Seagal, he's no Bruce Nibalee. He's very good, I'll let Netserk write the rest.
5. The yeast brothers can infect a race and leave many scratching themselves for dear life. Simon is riding really well, the question is: can he last?
6. The over-hyped Spanish speaking riders as I once called them: some posters (who so miss Alberto) already dismiss the field of this Giro: weak. Valverde's name comes up and that tells the story. Wrong Quintana, Bilbao not so athletic ...Nuf said. Chaves is a threat. Team tactics will be interesting...
7. Pozzovino attacks everyone, but has very little to show for. I like him and wish him the best.
8. Pinot struggled in the first part of the climb. Having Reichenbach in the break instead of pacing him may have been a mistake. He was good but not great, couldn't catch Simon, gets 4 seconds. Good, not great. But having Tibopino make it through week 1 unscathed is huge.

With so many tough stages coming up, it will come down to consistency over three weeks. That route is tough, and Etna is nothing compared to what's on the horizon. Great racing today. Gotta love il Giro.

Mostly agree.

Dennis' performance suggests that he might be improving as a climber and should continue to go for GC. We still have to see how his climbing can hold up in the third week though.

Froome's fans should be happy, if not exuberant. After his crash and poor ITT result, what more could be expected of him here? I don't think that his team matters much at this stage either, though in the past he has needed help on selective stages in the third week, so we'll see if that defeats him this time.

Aru is slightly under rated. Must be something with post Pantani Italians.

Not sure if Chaves' chances increased after stage 6. Was he really that strong, given the advantage of the breakaway? Would he have even held the wheel of the other contenders?

Yates is a serious threat. We can start to consider him at Porte's level.

I thought it was obvious that he would have IMO. Just looking at the time differences with the other GC contenders at the finish line and the energy he spent in those last kilometers of the mountain when he was alone and when he was trying to keep the gap for the breakway.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

How is Yates plainly the better GC hope? He is clearly very good right now, granted. He is yet however to prove himself among the best in the hardest stages, ever. Neither the Tour last year nor the Vuelta the year before was close to what Chaves did in '16. If it wasn't because Yates clearly were in the form of his life, I'd have Chaves ahead of him. Right now I'd have them equal in the pecking order.

It is pretty simple. Yates has the jersey and Chaves wont attack as long as Yates has the jersey and showing he is in great form.

If he gets dropped or looses it... then Chaves will be right there to step in. Assuming he is still there also.

Right now nobody knows how Yates is gonna go with having the jersey in the up coming stages or in the last week. That is very far ahead right now in the race. Like you mentioned he has not showed this before or been in this position, but he is right now. The team gotta believe in their rider and give him the support. This might be the breakthrough for him and he will establish himself for the future as one of the better GT-riders. Who knows? There is a first time for everything...

On the contrary, they're in a perfect place to attack, as a team.
If Chaves, for example, attacks, other favorites must try to close that down and Yates gets a free ride, like yesterday.

 

[Blanco]

I love Chavito so was delighted he won but that was IDIOTIC for Yates to gift him the win when Yates is plainly the better GC hope. Part of me now hopes Yates loses the Giro by less than 4 seconds to punish such stupidity.

I think Yates himself gave the best answer: "I said to him as soon as I caught him that he could take the stage because if I had enough time then I would take the jersey. He's been out on the road all day so i think he deserved it."
So, Simon Yates apparently thinks that a good team spirit is more important than freaking 4 seconds, and I more than agree with him on that.

 

[Angliru]

I love Chavito so was delighted he won but that was IDIOTIC for Yates to gift him the win when Yates is plainly the better GC hope. Part of me now hopes Yates loses the Giro by less than 4 seconds to punish such stupidity.

Just no. Emphatically.

An excellent, well-reasoned retort. I stand corrected.

Well, I had posted my reasons previously as to why I did not agree with your's and another's perspective (that called Yates decision "moronic"). I felt no need to repeat myself.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Valverde is not a great GT rider, however he's on the level just below. Contador and Indurain would be great GT riders. However 8 GT podiums including a GT win is a pretty impressive number for a rider, esp one who is not a Grand Tour specialist. As far as a "not that good" rider, I think his palmares would disagree with you. well over 100 pro wins. He needs 6 more wins to have 100 wins for his current team and less than that to become Movistar's all-time win leader (Indurain currently has that title). What Valverde is, is an exceptionally consistent rider. Plus a rider that the rest of the climber desperately want to drop in the mountains otherwise they'll loose the stage/race to him at the finish line when he out sprints them. He's a rider who when he first turned pro the peloton thought was a sprinter.

I agree that he's a great rider - one of the best of this generation. But he isn't a great gt rider. He'll always be in contention and threaten for a podium, but never really for the win. And by and large he knows this.

He lost the 2016 Giro because he lost 3 minutes to Corvara, and because he was the 4th best rider. Not because of motorbikes.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Valverde is not a great GT rider, however he's on the level just below. Contador and Indurain would be great GT riders. However 8 GT podiums including a GT win is a pretty impressive number for a rider, esp one who is not a Grand Tour specialist. As far as a "not that good" rider, I think his palmares would disagree with you. well over 100 pro wins. He needs 6 more wins to have 100 wins for his current team and less than that to become Movistar's all-time win leader (Indurain currently has that title). What Valverde is, is an exceptionally consistent rider. Plus a rider that the rest of the climber desperately want to drop in the mountains otherwise they'll loose the stage/race to him at the finish line when he out sprints them. He's a rider who when he first turned pro the peloton thought was a sprinter.

I agree that he's a great rider - one of the best of this generation. But he isn't a great gt rider. He'll always be in contention and threaten for a podium, but never really for the win. And by and large he knows this.

He lost the 2016 Giro because he lost 3 minutes to Corvara, and because he was the 4th best rider. Not because of motorbikes.

If I remember that stage right it was closer to 4 minutes and he was suffering horribly from altitude sickness. He's even admitted that he was very close to climbing off the bike and abandoning the race because he was so dizzy he could barely concentrate enough to stay on his bike.

Yes he knows it. It's why that 2015 podium at the Tour means so much to him. He cried when he knew for sure he was going to be on the podium in Paris. It's also why he's said that after that podium he's no longer chasing the Tour. I also believe it's why la Vuelta is the only GT he's still really chasing and that's partly because he's so close to making history in that race.

 

[May0maniac]

Re: Re:

Valverde is not a great GT rider, however he's on the level just below. Contador and Indurain would be great GT riders. However 8 GT podiums including a GT win is a pretty impressive number for a rider, esp one who is not a Grand Tour specialist. As far as a "not that good" rider, I think his palmares would disagree with you. well over 100 pro wins. He needs 6 more wins to have 100 wins for his current team and less than that to become Movistar's all-time win leader (Indurain currently has that title). What Valverde is, is an exceptionally consistent rider. Plus a rider that the rest of the climber desperately want to drop in the mountains otherwise they'll loose the stage/race to him at the finish line when he out sprints them. He's a rider who when he first turned pro the peloton thought was a sprinter.

I agree that he's a great rider - one of the best of this generation. But he isn't a great gt rider. He'll always be in contention and threaten for a podium, but never really for the win. And by and large he knows this.

He lost the 2016 Giro because he lost 3 minutes to Corvara, and because he was the 4th best rider. Not because of motorbikes.

If I remember that stage right it was closer to 4 minutes and he was suffering horribly from altitude sickness. He's even admitted that he was very close to climbing off the bike and abandoning the race because he was so dizzy he could barely concentrate enough to stay on his bike.

Yes he knows it. It's why that 2015 podium at the Tour means so much to him. He cried when he knew for sure he was going to be on the podium in Paris. It's also why he's said that after that podium he's no longer chasing the Tour. I also believe it's why la Vuelta is the only GT he's still really chasing and that's partly because he's so close to making history in that race.

Altitude sickness is a strong word when you're just around 2200m of altitude, his body just isn't able to perform well at that altitude, I don't really get it, but I'm a mountain man and that's probably mainly a flatlander thing.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Valverde is not a great GT rider, however he's on the level just below. Contador and Indurain would be great GT riders. However 8 GT podiums including a GT win is a pretty impressive number for a rider, esp one who is not a Grand Tour specialist. As far as a "not that good" rider, I think his palmares would disagree with you. well over 100 pro wins. He needs 6 more wins to have 100 wins for his current team and less than that to become Movistar's all-time win leader (Indurain currently has that title). What Valverde is, is an exceptionally consistent rider. Plus a rider that the rest of the climber desperately want to drop in the mountains otherwise they'll loose the stage/race to him at the finish line when he out sprints them. He's a rider who when he first turned pro the peloton thought was a sprinter.

I agree that he's a great rider - one of the best of this generation. But he isn't a great gt rider. He'll always be in contention and threaten for a podium, but never really for the win. And by and large he knows this.

He lost the 2016 Giro because he lost 3 minutes to Corvara, and because he was the 4th best rider. Not because of motorbikes.

Yes a versatile rider and a great classics rider but not close to a great GT rider with his only GT win being the Vuelta. Way below Contador. Even Vino and Cobo won a Vuelta. And without Evan's puncture and horrible wheel change Valverde's Vuelta win would have been much closer but I guess that's bike racing. Valverde is the best all rounder of his generation, Nibali a distant second followed by riders like Evans, and maybe Rodriguez who definitely should have won at least one GT.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Valverde is not a great GT rider, however he's on the level just below. Contador and Indurain would be great GT riders. However 8 GT podiums including a GT win is a pretty impressive number for a rider, esp one who is not a Grand Tour specialist. As far as a "not that good" rider, I think his palmares would disagree with you. well over 100 pro wins. He needs 6 more wins to have 100 wins for his current team and less than that to become Movistar's all-time win leader (Indurain currently has that title). What Valverde is, is an exceptionally consistent rider. Plus a rider that the rest of the climber desperately want to drop in the mountains otherwise they'll loose the stage/race to him at the finish line when he out sprints them. He's a rider who when he first turned pro the peloton thought was a sprinter.

I agree that he's a great rider - one of the best of this generation. But he isn't a great gt rider. He'll always be in contention and threaten for a podium, but never really for the win. And by and large he knows this.

He lost the 2016 Giro because he lost 3 minutes to Corvara, and because he was the 4th best rider. Not because of motorbikes.

If I remember that stage right it was closer to 4 minutes and he was suffering horribly from altitude sickness. He's even admitted that he was very close to climbing off the bike and abandoning the race because he was so dizzy he could barely concentrate enough to stay on his bike.

Yes he knows it. It's why that 2015 podium at the Tour means so much to him. He cried when he knew for sure he was going to be on the podium in Paris. It's also why he's said that after that podium he's no longer chasing the Tour. I also believe it's why la Vuelta is the only GT he's still really chasing and that's partly because he's so close to making history in that race.

Altitude sickness is a strong word when you're just around 2200m of altitude, his body just isn't able to perform well at that altitude, I don't really get it, but I'm a mountain man and that's probably mainly a flatlander thing.

He's talked about it before. Basically he's said a few times he was born, raised and still lives at sea level and his body has a very difficult time adjusting to altitude. It wouldn't be an issue for those who live in the mountains or at higher altitude levels. For those who have always lived at or near sea level it does become a major issue.

 

[Leinster]

For those who have always lived at or near sea level it does become a major issue.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Valverde is not a great GT rider, however he's on the level just below. Contador and Indurain would be great GT riders. However 8 GT podiums including a GT win is a pretty impressive number for a rider, esp one who is not a Grand Tour specialist. As far as a "not that good" rider, I think his palmares would disagree with you. well over 100 pro wins. He needs 6 more wins to have 100 wins for his current team and less than that to become Movistar's all-time win leader (Indurain currently has that title). What Valverde is, is an exceptionally consistent rider. Plus a rider that the rest of the climber desperately want to drop in the mountains otherwise they'll loose the stage/race to him at the finish line when he out sprints them. He's a rider who when he first turned pro the peloton thought was a sprinter.

I agree that he's a great rider - one of the best of this generation. But he isn't a great gt rider. He'll always be in contention and threaten for a podium, but never really for the win. And by and large he knows this.

He lost the 2016 Giro because he lost 3 minutes to Corvara, and because he was the 4th best rider. Not because of motorbikes.

Yes a versatile rider and a great classics rider but not close to a great GT rider with his only GT win being the Vuelta. Way below Contador. Even Vino and Cobo won a Vuelta. And without Evan's puncture and horrible wheel change Valverde's Vuelta win would have been much closer but I guess that's bike racing. Valverde is the best all rounder of his generation, Nibali a distant second followed by riders like Evans, and maybe Rodriguez who definitely should have won at least one GT.

I would say he's a very good GT rider (not great though). Only 3 riders in the current peloton have better GT record than him.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Valverde is not a great GT rider, however he's on the level just below. Contador and Indurain would be great GT riders. However 8 GT podiums including a GT win is a pretty impressive number for a rider, esp one who is not a Grand Tour specialist. As far as a "not that good" rider, I think his palmares would disagree with you. well over 100 pro wins. He needs 6 more wins to have 100 wins for his current team and less than that to become Movistar's all-time win leader (Indurain currently has that title). What Valverde is, is an exceptionally consistent rider. Plus a rider that the rest of the climber desperately want to drop in the mountains otherwise they'll loose the stage/race to him at the finish line when he out sprints them. He's a rider who when he first turned pro the peloton thought was a sprinter.

I agree that he's a great rider - one of the best of this generation. But he isn't a great gt rider. He'll always be in contention and threaten for a podium, but never really for the win. And by and large he knows this.

He lost the 2016 Giro because he lost 3 minutes to Corvara, and because he was the 4th best rider. Not because of motorbikes.

Yes a versatile rider and a great classics rider but not close to a great GT rider with his only GT win being the Vuelta. Way below Contador. Even Vino and Cobo won a Vuelta. And without Evan's puncture and horrible wheel change Valverde's Vuelta win would have been much closer but I guess that's bike racing. Valverde is the best all rounder of his generation, Nibali a distant second followed by riders like Evans, and maybe Rodriguez who definitely should have won at least one GT.

I would say he's a very good GT rider (not great though). Only 3 riders in the current peloton have better GT record than him.

Sure but some of the best ones have retired and I think one win and a lot of podiums is good but not great. The only great GT riders in recent times would be Contador, Froome and Nibali. Valverde would be below Andy Schleck and probably Evans. Andy had more Tour podiums and was competing against Contador at his peak plus a he had a podium in the Giro. Andy's 2010 Tour win some people won't count. Even Menchov had a superior record to Valverde, Schleck and Evans as a GT rider and is probably underrated depending on how much weight his Vuelta wins are given.