Giro d'Italia 2020, stage 6: Castrovillari – Matera 188 km

[Krokro]

I sincerely think Ackermann is the sprinter to beat nowadays, followed closely by Ewan and Bennett. But Demare is worth a top 5 this season, easily.

WVA is out of contention, no matter how good he's been sprinting anyway.

 

[movingtarget]

Demare probably has relatively fresh legs from not doing the Tour. At the moment I would say he is going to win more stages.

 

[Billie]

Well yes. Even leaving the Tour issue aside, you always have to take into account that all French sprinters pad out their win numbers with a load of little Europe Tour races because their teams ride them and care about them. But while that bulks up his numbers, WT wins are there too. Demare is in great form.

2 WT wins (today and 2 days ago) which is one more than Sagan since the start of Tour 2019.

We're not talking about 2003 Ale Jet or 2009 Cav here

 

[roundabout]

are you seriously suggesting that Arnaud Demare is as fast a bunch sprinter as Caleb Ewan? He isn’t now and he hasn‘t been at any point in his life, unless perhaps you go back to when he was a Junior and ewan was about 12.

I was quoting the post that said that Demare has to beat Ewan among other people to be under consideration with the results showing that he can do it.

But apparently even that does not count now and there is some kind of built-in hierarchy in place regardless of actual results.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

2 WT wins (today and 2 days ago) which is one more than Sagan since the start of Tour 2019.

We're not talking about 2003 Ale Jet or 2009 Cav here

lol fair point. I was counting Milano Torino as WT, when of course it isn’t. It did have a WT level field though.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I was quoting the post that said that Demare has to beat Ewan among other people to be under consideration with the results showing that he can do it.

But apparently even that does not count now and there is some kind of built-in hierarchy in place regardless of actual results.

again, are you suggesting that Arnaud Demare is as fast a bunch sprinter as Caleb Ewan?

 

[wheresmybrakes]

As much as people are blaming Sagan for messing up, I still think Demare would have caught Sagan and beat him at the line with the speed he went in that finish. Sagan knows he can't beat Demare, he gave up as soon as he saw him.

 

[roundabout]

again, are you suggesting that Arnaud Demare is as fast a bunch sprinter as Caleb Ewan?

fast enough to beat him 2 times out of 3 in an actual race in the last 2 months

how they'd measure up in some kind of ideal lab setting I don't know and I am not going to pretend to

 

[memyselfandI]

again, are you suggesting that Arnaud Demare is as fast a bunch sprinter as Caleb Ewan?

It's pointless to compare absolute speed in road racing between these two. This is not track cycling. You can't win if you can't keep up with competitors. Sprinter type of racers typically get dropped in certain point of race, terrain type and/or tactical manouvre wise. Both of 'em do. Today Demare was fast enough as Ewan is fast enough sometimes.

 

[Breezy1985]

Bora is doing what they do best: WASTE all the effort on nothing... LOL

Time to let Sagan go it alone I think. Someone else can pull it to the line and he can ride trains because he is definitely not stage favourite anymore so I don't see it as Bora's job

 

[richwallone]

As much as people are blaming Sagan for messing up, I still think Demare would have caught Sagan and beat him at the line with the speed he went in that finish. Sagan knows he can't beat Demare, he gave up as soon as he saw him.

Better second than eight... Come on... It looks like he is waiting for the perfect leadout which he won't get from Bora. They are not built like that. Plus, he is more opportunistic sprinter, so he needs to be opportunistic and stop riding so defensively like he is a power sprinter.

It just seems more and more that this season it's in his head... I hope that he starts 2021 fresh in his mind, and legs, and focuses on the Classics where he still can be decent rather than the s**show pursuit of the green at the Tour...

BTW, I still believe he'll get one win at this year's Giro... Somehow

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

fast enough to beat him 2 times out of 3 in an actual race in the last 2 months

how they'd measure up in some kind of ideal lab setting I don't know and I am not going to pretend to

Stepping back from making an absurd argument, I see.

Yes he has beaten Ewan two out of three times in the last two months in warm up races. He has always been capable of getting an occasional win against faster men. It’s one of the reasons why I like him. But nobody seriously makes him favourite in a typical bunch sprint against the likes of Ewan, for good reason.

 

[richwallone]

Time to let Sagan go it alone I think. Someone else can pull it to the line and he can ride trains because he is definitely not stage favourite anymore so I don't see it as Bora's job

They better, they have 2 riders in the Top 10 on GC!!! Not sure if Konrad or Majka have any chance to get on the podium this year but it seems like a surer bet than Sagan winning a stage right now... LOL

 

[SHAD0W93]

Nibali vs Sagan for the most top-10 without a win

Until Nibali wins the Giro.

 

[roundabout]

Stepping back from making an absurd argument, I see.

Yes he has beaten Ewan two out of three times in the last two months in warm up races. He has always been capable of getting an occasional win against faster men. It’s one of the reasons why I like him. But nobody seriously makes him favourite in a typical bunch sprint against the likes of Ewan, for good reason.

What absurd argument? You're the one with the textbook straw man here.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

What absurd argument? You're the one with the textbook straw man here.

I’ve asked you straight out twice whether you believe that Arnaud Demare is a faster bunch sprinter than Caleb Ewan and twice you’ve avoided saying yes.

Instead you’ve told me that he’s fast enough to occasionally beat Ewan, which is obvious and not in dispute, and then you’ve retreated into well who can really know territory. That’s enough for me to safely conclude that you don’t in fact think that Arnaud Demare is a faster bunch sprinter than Caleb Ewan.

 

[Wvv]

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[Alexandre B.]

I’ve asked you straight out twice whether you believe that Arnaud Demare is a faster bunch sprinter than Caleb Ewan and twice you’ve avoided saying yes.

Instead you’ve told me that he’s fast enough to occasionally beat Ewan, which is obvious and not in dispute, and then you’ve retreated into well who can really know territory. That’s enough for me to safely conclude that you don’t in fact think that Arnaud Demare is a faster bunch sprinter than Caleb Ewan.

The point is to be the first to cross the line, yes?

 

[TommyPlus]

I’ve asked you straight out twice whether you believe that Arnaud Demare is a faster bunch sprinter than Caleb Ewan and twice you’ve avoided saying yes.

Instead you’ve told me that he’s fast enough to occasionally beat Ewan, which is obvious and not in dispute, and then you’ve retreated into well who can really know territory. That’s enough for me to safely conclude that you don’t in fact think that Arnaud Demare is a faster bunch sprinter than Caleb Ewan.

I safely conclude that you don’t receive many party invitations

 

[Breh]

I sincerely think Ackermann is the sprinter to beat nowadays, followed closely by Ewan and Bennett. But Demare is worth a top 5 this season, easily.

WVA is out of contention, no matter how good he's been sprinting anyway.

No way Ackermann is the guy to beat. Philipsen and Pedersen were better than him in the Binckbanck Tour. He lost to Merlier in T-A and outside of Merlier/Gaviria the competition wasn't that great.

I'd put Ewan and Bennet above him tbh.

 

[roundabout]

I’ve asked you straight out twice whether you believe that Arnaud Demare is a faster bunch sprinter than Caleb Ewan and twice you’ve avoided saying yes.

Instead you’ve told me that he’s fast enough to occasionally beat Ewan, which is obvious and not in dispute, and then you’ve retreated into well who can really know territory. That’s enough for me to safely conclude that you don’t in fact think that Arnaud Demare is a faster bunch sprinter than Caleb Ewan.

Because that was not the argument. Just read the original post that I replied to.

Edit: meh, it's not worth it, but I'll try to remember to avoid debating anything with you in the future since you can apparently only do straw men instead of actual discussion

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

The point is to be the first to cross the line, yes?

If you are assessing who is the fastest bunch sprinter, as opposed to the most successful rider, the point is to be the first to cross the line in bunch sprints in important races against elite competition. Demare has barely raced an important race and has had limited top level competition. Who is he sprinting against here to take his first two WT wins in the last 15 months? I’m sorry but I don‘t think winning 56 stages of the Tour of Poitou-Charentes vaults him above the likes of Ewan, Bennett or Ackermann as a bunch sprinter.

 

[search]

you also need to keep in mind that Ewan has had a fairly "poor" season though, with only a handful of good bunch sprints, if at all. So you are basically comparing Démare with the 2019 version of Ewan there

 

[Broccolidwarf]

The decision to bring Sagan to the Giro, and preventing him from riding the cobbled classics, is looking increasingly moronic.

I am at a complete loss to understand, what the Bora management was thinking, except maybe that the sponsors want to sell more kitchen equipment in the Italian market?

 

[RedheadDane]

I’m sorry but I don‘t think winning 56 stages of the Tour of Poitou-Charentes vaults him above the likes of Ewan, Bennett or Ackermann as a bunch sprinter.

Actually, I think winning 56 stages of the Tour of Poitou Charentes would be rather impressive.