Giro d'Italia Giro d'Italia 2021 stage 11: Perugia – Montalcino 162 km

[Anderis]

Yes, that's what I thought, too. If someone like Bernal goes and Carthy can't follow anyway, fine, then Bettiol could follow. But he surely won't be allowed to attack and drag other GC contenders with him when Carthy can't follow him. And if they go and Carthy can't follow immediately it's probably Bettiol's task to keep him as close as possible. So unless Carthy cracks or crashes early... I don't see it.

If Bettiol is in the first group and Carthy in the second then I don't think they'll necessarily pull Bettiol back to help him, even more so if Carthy has riders like Carr and Guerreiro with him who should be capable of doing well in this terrain. If there are other GC riders with Bettiol, then he has an excuse to not work and actually get an even better chance to win. EF like to give their riders an opportunity to follow their individual goals if they have good enough legs.
Of course it's possible the situation will get so precarious for Hugh that Bettiol will have to work for him but that's not the only possible scenario IMO.

 

[Panda Claws]

I need a BIG attack to happen.

 

[The Barb]

Bettiol:

• Is riding his home Tour;
• In is phenomenal form;
• Could hardly ask for a stage better suited to his abilities.

It'll be a crime if they force him to stay with Carthy.

 

[houtdffan]

I am not a fan of gravel in GT races.

Should be included every year. The winner should be the best overall cyclist. Not the best at youtube sprints at the end of a stage

 

[Escarabajo]

Bettiol:

• Is riding his home Tour;
• In is phenomenal form;
• Could hardly ask for a stage better suited to his abilities.

It'll be a crime if they force him to stay with Carthy.

A crime could be committed tomorrow!
Unless if Carthy has someone else with him.

 

[Ripper]

Should be included every year. The winner should be the best overall cyclist. Not the best at youtube sprints at the end of a stage

Gravel or pave! And intermediate stages. And the occasional long TT (like actually long, like 40-50 km).

 

[houtdffan]

Gravel or pave! And intermediate stages. And the occasional long TT (like actually long, like 40-50 km).

40-50km? That's short!

A proper TT is at least 55 km. Probably need 2 in a race, plus a 65km TTT. This short TT BS is a very new thing, largely driven by Contador strangling the Giro in a 59km TT back in 2015.

If the climbers cannot hack it, tell them to become better ITT riders

 

[Leinster]

40-50km? That's short!

A proper TT is at least 55 km. Probably need 2 in a race, plus a 65km TTT. This short TT BS is a very new thing, largely driven by Contador strangling the Giro in a 59km TT back in 2015.

If the climbers cannot hack it, tell them to become better ITT riders

You’re kidding, right?

The lack of TT started well before that. The Tour that year had all of 13.8km of ITT. Apart from a blip in 2012 which allowed Wiggins to dominate, the TT kms in the Tour have been steadily declining since the mid-2000s.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Anyone not named Formolo won't win this stage.

 

[BigCoward]

40-50km? That's short!

A proper TT is at least 55 km. Probably need 2 in a race, plus a 65km TTT. This short TT BS is a very new thing, largely driven by Contador strangling the Giro in a 59km TT back in 2015.

If the climbers cannot hack it, tell them to become better ITT riders

Yes to the individual TT, no to anything over 15k for a TTT. Imagine ineos with Ganna, Dennis, Kwiatko, Castro, Porte and Thomas putting 2 minutes + into most other GC contenders?
Individual TTs for a GC should have a lower and upper limit that the organisers can't go outside of, for me roughly 75k-120k.

 

[RedheadDane]

Yes to the individual TT, no to anything over 15k for a TTT. Imagine ineos with Ganna, Dennis, Kwiatko, Castro, Porte and Thomas putting 2 minutes + into most other GC contenders?
Individual TTs for a GC should have a lower and upper limit that the organisers can't go outside of, for me roughly 75k-120k.

But then the TT strong GC guys could just limit their losses in the mountains, and settle it in the TTs. After all, if the TTers cannot hack it, they need to become better climbers.
Besides, I'd worry that with 75+ TTs, the number of technical TTs might decline.

 

[BigCoward]

But then the TT strong GC guys could just limit their losses in the mountains, and settle it in the TTs. After all, if the TTers cannot hack it, they need to become better climbers.
Besides, I'd worry that with 75+ TTs, the number of technical TTs might decline.

Well obviously there needs to be balance, but I have no problem with the strongest overall riders winning GCs if the climbers can't TT or drop the bigger riders in proper mountain stages.

 

[Remy55]

This version of Sagan has no chance to follow the pure climbers on a 5km ascent with this gradients.

 

[tobydawq]

I hope something happens GC wise.

Well, I think you might get your wish granted....

 

[tobydawq]

40-50km? That's short!

A proper TT is at least 55 km. Probably need 2 in a race, plus a 65km TTT. This short TT BS is a very new thing, largely driven by Contador strangling the Giro in a 59km TT back in 2015.

If the climbers cannot hack it, tell them to become better ITT riders

And get on Ineos so they don't lose the race on the 65 km TTT

 

[Lequack]

Some pics

 

[Amazinmets87]

40-50km? That's short!

A proper TT is at least 55 km. Probably need 2 in a race, plus a 65km TTT. This short TT BS is a very new thing, largely driven by Contador strangling the Giro in a 59km TT back in 2015.

If the climbers cannot hack it, tell them to become better ITT riders

The counter argument is that there's too much parity between GC riders in the mountains, while long ITTs always lead to large gaps. Strong TTs would dominate the GTs. That said, it would likely engender a superior spectacle in the mountains. Desperate grimpeurs

40-50km? That's short!

A proper TT is at least 55 km. Probably need 2 in a race, plus a 65km TTT. This short TT BS is a very new thing, largely driven by Contador strangling the Giro in a 59km TT back in 2015.

If the climbers cannot hack it, tell them to become better ITT riders

The counter argument is that there's too much parity between GC riders in mountain stages, whereas long ITTs always lead to large gaps. Strong time trialists would dominate the GTs. That said, it would likely engender a spectacle in the mountains. Desperate grimpeurs launching long-range attacks in an attempt to gain minutes.

 

[Amazinmets87]

You’re kidding, right?

The lack of TT started well before that. The Tour that year had all of 13.8km of ITT. Apart from a blip in 2012 which allowed Wiggins to dominate, the TT kms in the Tour have been steadily declining since the mid-2000s.

The Tour is a different story. The reason the organisers are reluctant to add long TTs to the route is due to the poor time trialing of French GC contenders. That said, considering there's been year after year of bitter disappointment from French riders, perhaps the organisers may realize it's a lost cause.

 

[Red Rick]

40-50km? That's short!

A proper TT is at least 55 km. Probably need 2 in a race, plus a 65km TTT. This short TT BS is a very new thing, largely driven by Contador strangling the Giro in a 59km TT back in 2015.

If the climbers cannot hack it, tell them to become better ITT riders

Yes, climbers should learn ITTs but by all means let team strength give about 3 minutes for free too

 

[RedheadDane]

That said, considering there's been year after year of bitter disappointment from French riders, perhaps the organisers may realize it's a lost cause.

Last year everything was tailor made, perfectly set-up. Apart from the broken back...

 

[Amazinmets87]

Last year everything was tailor made, perfectly set-up. Apart from the broken back...

For whatever reason, it just never works out.

Curious... Has a French rider won any other GT since the last French TDF victory?

 

[Bolder]

On paper Bernal should win this stage handily (out of the GC contenders), based on his SB performance -- that was HUGE vs Alaf and MvDP. All Ineos has to do is keep him out of trouble and ride defensively. Bardet shouldn't waste energy trying to take time today, although like Bernal he's certainly capable of giving it a go.

 

[Bolder]

The Tour is a different story. The reason the organisers are reluctant to add long TTs to the route is due to the poor time trialing of French GC contenders. That said, considering there's been year after year of bitter disappointment from French riders, perhaps the organisers may realize it's a lost cause.

I don't really buy that theory. I think it's also just as likely that long TTs aren't very popular with most viewers, same as with flat sprint stages. Much more excitement in, say, climbing ITTs such as PDBF or AdH, as well as micro mountain stages...

 

[Valanga]

For whatever reason, it just never works out.

Curious... Has a French rider won any other GT since the last French TDF victory?

Fignon won the Giro in 89.
Jalabert the Vuelta in 95.

That's it.

 

[BlueRoads]

This "lack of time trialing in the GTs favours the pure climbers, a true allrounder should be able to win a GT" topos is the worst of all.
Please, how many pure climbers won the Tour or the Giro in the past 15 years?
Why did Sky make such a living from looking for the best time trialers and then making them climb instead of just looking for the best climbers, if those win GTs?
What is Pogacar if not a true allrounder?
Since when is Froome, the most successful GT rider of the past 10 years, a pure climber?

Now let's imagine there were 100k of more or less flat time trialing. Guys like Bernal, decent, but not great time trialers, wouldn't stand any chance. Nibali wouldn't stand a chance. Instead Ganna might have a good chance and I wouldn't call him an allrounder. Rohan Dennis would be among the absolute top candidates anyway. Now then it's always "you need to make the mountain stages harder", but how hard exactly would you have to make them? Lasting for 8 hours?

The level of athletism and professionalism has just risen to a level, where the old physical builds don't work anymore as good comparisons.

If Evenepoel manages to only hang on to Bernal in the mountains he will win this Giro with it's ridiculous amount of time trialing. And he's for certain not a pure climber.
So with Pogacar, Roglic and Evenepoel being among the best GT riders we have at the moment, and van Aert probably able to turn into one, not even the Vuelta being won by a pure climber the last years, please stop this "the allrounders are discriminated against" for now. You can come again when Bardet wins this Giro, Landa the Tour and Ciccone the Vuelta.