Giro d'Italia Giro d'Italia 2022 route rumors

[Krzysztof_O]

This must be the first time in years that the Giro visits Bormio area without tackling any of the legends: Gavia, Stelvio and Mortirolo (proper side). It's a shame.
I was also hoping for more interesting solutions in the Western Alps. Finestre would be perfect but there are other interesting options there as well.

 

[AlfaLum]

I actually quite like the route, assuming that the final ITT is in the region of 25 to 35km. Yes, it could be better with relatively small changes, and yes it's kind of missing a proper queen stage, but it allows for plenty of action across the route, and there's plenty of opportunities for the GC battle.

I think the problem with some of the members here is that they speculate about which climbs should be used for such a large part of the year.

That when the moment comes they find out some of those speculated climbs arent used, they immediately become disappointed.

In my opinion this Giro has a very demanding route with a lot of stages that can potentially become the decisive factor. Obviously with every GT we need to have a bit of luck that there isnt one rider who is a grade above the others.

And preferably we have one of two competitors who have lost quite a bit already going into the final week. But with regard to the route i think all the necessary ingredients are there for the riders to make something out of it.

And i particularly like the Torino stage.

 

[Red Rick]

I think the problem with some of the members here is that they speculate about which climbs should be used for such a large part of the year.

I don't really think this is the issue. We call for the same stuff every year but it's never the real problem with the route when Fauniera or Finestre once again isn't in. The main complaint is the lack of a good queen stage which I think is entirely fair considering the hardest stage is the worst Aprica finish we've had I think and the weakest queen stage since I first started watching the Giro in 2007.

 

[Jeatle99]

I am an avid reader of this forum, mostly of rumours threads, but never posted here. So first of all I would like to say that you all did a great job keeping this forum alive and sharing your passion and knowledge.
Because I saw a lot of negative comments in last few hours, I have analyzed the route and, quite strange for many, I really like it. I'm not a fan of using same combo every year or for every time a big climb appears in Giro, like Mortirolo-Aprica, Finestre - Sestriere, Stelvio - sth, so I'm not dissapointed with Aprica stage.

First week is great imo. Some stages for sprinters, a short tt and 3 stages for gc riders. Etna is excellent for 1st MTF. (probably there won't be big gaps, but is hard enough for someone brave, like Contador proved it in 2011). Potenza stage is well designed, 6km at about 10% at 60km to go sounds good. If someone will dare to try, maybe we'll see a great stage. Blockhaus stage is the hardest I remember in a first week.

Second week will be hit or miss. It looks easy, but I think it can produce great racing. In Jesi and Cuneo stages I think everyone we'll try to drop pure sprinters, can be an interesting fight for ciclamino jersey. Genoa is for breakaway. Then, we have Torino stage that I really like, looks like a mini LBL. I expect some gaps between gc riders here. Cogne is the only stage I don't like, but I can see attacks happening on Verrogne because is just before restday.

I really like Aprica stage. Lots of places to attack, Mortirolo, Teglio or Santa Caterina. Will anyone attack before Santa Caterina? It's hard to tell, but imo there is enough space to do it. Minutes can be gained in this stage. Next stage is interesting as well. Vetriolo will reduce peloton and we'll see another gc battle on Menador. 8 km at 10% is really hard. The stage that passes through Slovenia is good enough, while San Pellegrino - Pordoi - Marmolada is a pretty decent combo for last mountain stage. Sestriere in 2020 and last stage this year were easier and still have produced good races.

It's important to keep in mind that perfect design exists just on this kind of forums. There are a lot of factors which complicate drawing a gt.
Last but not least, riders are the most important thing when it comes to spectacular races. If Contador was still racing would probably find places to make long range attacks in at least 5 stages. Covadonga was great this year because of Bernal and Roglic not because of design.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I would have no problem with the Aprica stage, if either the Fedaia or Cogne stage were a real queen stage. Likewise I would have no problem with the Cogne stage if either the Aprica or Fedaia stage were a real queen stage, and I would have no problem with the Fedaia stage if the Cogne or Aprica stage were a real queen stage.

That's what the problem is. The mountain stages here are all good parts of a strong supporting cast, but they're just missing that one star attraction piece to build around, so people are looking at the stages as missed opportunities. You wouldn't want to beef up all three of them, but it would be nice if one of them could become the centrepiece. As it is, it's the equivalent of the 2021 Tour Ineos team - a world class support team with several potential contenders but no clear leader going in.

 

[Jeatle99]

I don't really think this is the issue. We call for the same stuff every year but it's never the real problem with the route when Fauniera or Finestre once again isn't in. The main complaint is the lack of a good queen stage which I think is entirely fair considering the hardest stage is the worst Aprica finish we've had I think and the weakest queen stage since I first started watching the Giro in 2007.

Imo problem with queen stages is that they rarely deliver. None of the last 10 TDFs have been won with a big attack on the queen stage. The same could be said about Vuelta who usually uses Angliru for this role.

It's true that Giro was the only gt in which the hardest stage led to big gaps or great races. Cortina 2021, which btw was easier than 2022, Stelvio 2020, Finestre 2018, last stage in 2016, Mortirolo 2015.

 

[Red Rick]

I would have no problem with the Aprica stage, if either the Fedaia or Cogne stage were a real queen stage. Likewise I would have no problem with the Cogne stage if either the Aprica or Fedaia stage were a real queen stage, and I would have no problem with the Fedaia stage if the Cogne or Aprica stage were a real queen stage.

That's what the problem is. The mountain stages here are all good parts of a strong supporting cast, but they're just missing that one star attraction piece to build around, so people are looking at the stages as missed opportunities. You wouldn't want to beef up all three of them, but it would be nice if one of them could become the centrepiece. As it is, it's the equivalent of the 2021 Tour Ineos team - a world class support team with several potential contenders but no clear leader going in.

I would also add that in this case these wanted queen stages aren't logistically impossible but rather right there. Giau-Falzarego-Fedaia wouldn't cross region lines if I'm not mistaken. Mortirolo you could climb over the Recta Contador side and you could ditch Teglio and that would look a lot better, and perhaps climb via Trivigno rather than Santa Cristina. You'd use the same descents so I doubt road quality would be that much of an issue.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Imo problem with queen stages is that they rarely deliver. None of the last 10 TDFs have been won with a big attack on the queen stage. The same could be said about Vuelta who usually uses Angliru for this role.

It's true that Giro was the only gt in which the hardest stage led to big gaps or great races. Cortina 2021, which btw was easier than 2022, Stelvio 2020, Finestre 2018, last stage in 2016, Mortirolo 2015.

The counter is that the presence of a real queen stage can be used to improve the stages around it without the need to make any changes to them. Fatigue and endurance are crucial. Stage 8 of the 2021 Tour was fantastic - but a lot of the capacity for action was created by the fact that the previous stage was 250km with plenty of up-and-down and was raced pretty hard meaning leaders were isolated or exposed far sooner in the ensuing mountain stage. The epic short stage to Formigal in 2016 doesn't happen without the fatigue created by the 200km Aubisque stage the previous day causing teams' helpers and even some leaders to explode early on when they weren't given the chance to ease into the rhythm of the stage, even if the Formigal stage was clearly better; and likewise the stage that caused the fad for short mountain stages, 2011 Alpe d'Huez, was in part the product of the domestiques all being blown up by the work done on the Galibier stage the day before.

It's not a guarantor, I mean, the Vuelta has become pretty bad at neutering its own queen stages by placing an MTF riders are scared of straight after, like every stage to La Farrapona so far, or Sierra Nevada in 2009.

 

[sir fly]

The closing TT is meant to be the Queen stage next year.
... There can be only one!

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Imo problem with queen stages is that they rarely deliver. None of the last 10 TDFs have been won with a big attack on the queen stage. The same could be said about Vuelta who usually uses Angliru for this role.

Just two of the last 10 TDFs have featured a big attack by the winner. In addition, a lot of Vueltas and Tours in this period didn't have anything close to a Giro-sized queen stage regardless.

Or to approach it a different way, here's a list of what I'd consider to be proper (Giro-sized - Cortina 2021, Gavia/Mortirolo 2019, Val Martello and probably also Tre Cime 2013 would have been there, so that's at least one for every Giro) queen stages in this period, excluding stages that weren't raced as planned like Cortina last year or cancelled like Val Martello in 2013:

Giro 2020 - Stelvio stage
Giro 2019 - arguably Manghen/Monte Avena stage and San Carlo/Courmayeur stage
Giro 2018 - arguably Finestre stage
Tour 2018 - Alpe d'Huez stage
Vuelta 2019 - arguably Andorra stage
Giro 2017 - Stelvio/Umbrail stage
Giro 2016 - Dolomites stage and Bonette/Lombarda stage
Vuelta 2016 - arguably Aubisque stage
Giro 2015 - Mortirolo stage
Tour 2015 - arguably Croix de Fer/La Toussuire stage
Vuelta 2015 - Andorra stage
Giro 2014 - Gavia/Stelvio/Val Martello stage
Giro 2012 - arguably Mortirolo/Stelvio stage, Manghen/Pampeago stage and Giau/Cortina stage

It's possible I've forgotten something and of course there are a few stages you could argue I should or shouldn't have included, but going through this list, surely the majority delivered?

 

[Jeatle99]

The counter is that the presence of a real queen stage can be used to improve the stages around it without the need to make any changes to them. Fatigue and endurance are crucial. Stage 8 of the 2021 Tour was fantastic - but a lot of the capacity for action was created by the fact that the previous stage was 250km with plenty of up-and-down and was raced pretty hard meaning leaders were isolated or exposed far sooner in the ensuing mountain stage. The epic short stage to Formigal in 2016 doesn't happen without the fatigue created by the 200km Aubisque stage the previous day causing teams' helpers and even some leaders to explode early on when they weren't given the chance to ease into the rhythm of the stage, even if the Formigal stage was clearly better; and likewise the stage that caused the fad for short mountain stages, 2011 Alpe d'Huez, was in part the product of the domestiques all being blown up by the work done on the Galibier stage the day before.

It's not a guarantor, I mean, the Vuelta has become pretty bad at neutering its own queen stages by placing an MTF riders are scared of straight after, like every stage to La Farrapona so far, or Sierra Nevada in 2009.

Of course, fatigue was important in the stages you are talking about but two of them happen to be directed by Contador, who was smart and strong enough to smell this kind of stages, and the other one by Pogacar who was far better than other gc riders in TDF 2021. I'm pretty convinced that a Formigal stage would produce no damage in these days cycling, even after a queen stage. (I remember Vuelta 2020 with Roglic losing time but other things happened then, weather, his weakness).

My ideal design is a sprint stage --> queen stage --> medium mountain stage. OR 30-40km itt --> queen stage --> restday/medium mountain stage.

 

[Jeatle99]

Giro 2020 - Stelvio stage
Giro 2019 - arguably Manghen/Monte Avena stage and San Carlo/Courmayeur stage
Giro 2018 - arguably Finestre stage
Tour 2018 - Alpe d'Huez stage
Vuelta 2019 - arguably Andorra stage
Giro 2017 - Stelvio/Umbrail stage
Giro 2016 - Dolomites stage and Bonette/Lombarda stage
Vuelta 2016 - arguably Aubisque stage
Giro 2015 - Mortirolo stage
Tour 2015 - arguably Croix de Fer/La Toussuire stage
Vuelta 2015 - Andorra stage
Giro 2014 - Gavia/Stelvio/Val Martello stage
Giro 2012 - arguably Mortirolo/Stelvio stage, Manghen/Pampeago stage and Giau/Cortina stage

It's possible I've forgotten something and of course there are a few stages you could argue I should or shouldn't have included, but going through this list, surely the majority delivered?

Stelvio 2020 is on my list of great queen stages.
2019: I remember some attacks on Manghen and Roglic being distanced by Nibali and Carapaz. In the end, gaps were small (few seconds), just Roglic lost 54s. Carapaz won pink jersey with an attack on San Carlo, but I don't think too many thought after this stage that he will keep it to Verona. Richie is one of my favorite riders and was underestimated in that Giro. Don't remember too many things about Andorra stage. Probably you're right. Though it's a 94km stage.
2018: the same as Stelvio 2020. Really don't remember AdH 2018 to be a spectacular stage and looking at result strenghtens my thoughts.
2017: Small differences and TD losing 2 minutes because of a toilet break.
2016: No gaps in Aubisque stage
2015: I remember two things from Andorra stage. It was designed by Purito and Froome crashed in the first kms.
2012: few days ago I have analyzed all gt routes starting with 2011. I made a list of great stages and first 4 or 5 were from Giro, with Stelvio and Pampeago 2012 included.

Anyway, my idea was that having a very difficult stage doesn't mean that it'll be raced properly. At least 50% of queen stages don't live up to the expectations

 

[fbjim]

The positive about the mountain stages is the sheer hilarity of the intermediate sprints on Etna.

People bring up the Giro sprints every so often - the second sprint in a Giro stage is frequently a hilltop or even mountain sprint because it's for bonus seconds.

 

[Gigs_98]

Yeah...the mountain stages are sh*t...

 

[OlavEH]

This must be the first time in years that the Giro visits Bormio area without tackling any of the legends: Gavia, Stelvio and Mortirolo (proper side). It's a shame.
I was also hoping for more interesting solutions in the Western Alps. Finestre would be perfect but there are other interesting options there as well.

There is no need for Finestre IMO. There is more than enough tough climbs in the route already announced. But a couple of mountain stages should have added at least one more climb, and stages/or climbs should have been done in a somewhat different order. When you have Etna, double Passo Lanciano, several of the tough climbs in Aosta, Croce Domini, Mortirolo, Fedaia and several other, it isn't the lack of climbs that is a problem (although Giau should have been added).

 

[OlavEH]

Btw, could anyone try guess which climbs are not very probable anye more due to road condition? Fauniera and Sampeyre have been mentioned. Descending Gavia south? One of the sides of Vivione? What about roads like Passo San Marco, Passo Pennes, the parallell routes to Costalunga (Nigra, Obergummer) or other tough climbs in the Alps or Dolomites that are rarely used?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

There is no need for Finestre IMO. There is more than enough tough climbs in the route already announced. But a couple of mountain stages should have added at least one more climb, and stages/or climbs should have been done in a somewhat different order. When you have Etna, double Passo Lanciano, several of the tough climbs in Aosta, Croce Domini, Mortirolo, Fedaia and several other, it isn't the lack of climbs that is a problem (although Giau should have been added).

I never said it's just the lack of climbs. There are tough climbs in this giro. It's the arrangement of them, which doesn't favour long-range action and on top of that at least one monster climb is missing. Combos like Mortirolo + Aprica (should have been on this route) or Stelvio + Cancano or Finestre + Sestrieres are the best profiles (i.e. a monster climb followed by a descent and a lesser climb, which alone is not hard enough to produce bigger gaps and prevent cyclists from long-range attacks but can kill riders if there are no helpers left).

 

[OlavEH]

I never said it's just the lack of climbs. There are tough climbs in this giro. It's the arrangement of them, which doesn't favour long-range action and on top of that at least one monster climb is missing. Combos like Mortirolo + Aprica (should have been on this route) or Stelvio + Cancano or Finestre + Sestrieres are the best profiles (i.e. a monster climb followed by a descent and a lesser climb, which alone is not hard enough to produce bigger gaps and prevent cyclists from long-range attacks but can kill riders if there are no helpers left).

Mortirolo and Aprica are both there, but just used in the opposite direction. If they just did that, in addition to adding the Falzarego-Giau loop in the Fedaia stage, we would have been talking about one of the toughest Giros in many years.

 

[Red Rick]

Btw, could anyone try guess which climbs are not very probable anye more due to road condition? Fauniera and Sampeyre have been mentioned. Descending Gavia south? One of the sides of Vivione? What about roads like Passo San Marco, Passo Pennes, the parallell routes to Costalunga (Nigra, Obergummer) or other tough climbs in the Alps or Dolomites that are rarely used?

Didn't Vegni consider Gavia a too dangerous descent overall? Last time we saw it was in the Zomegnan years.

 

[OlavEH]

Didn't Vegni consider Gavia a too dangerous descent overall? Last time we saw it was in the Zomegnan years.

Perhaps. Used 5 times from 2006 to 2014, but not after that.

 

[Eshnar]

Didn't Vegni consider Gavia a too dangerous descent overall? Last time we saw it was in the Zomegnan years.

no, it was used by him in 2014 and was planned in 2019. Unless you mean the Southern side.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Didn't Vegni consider Gavia a too dangerous descent overall? Last time we saw it was in the Zomegnan years.

I mean, the Gavia South descent is kinda dangerous, If you crash on certain sections of the road (mainly after the tunnel) you're pretty much done, not a lot to stop your fall for a looong time.

 

[Laplaz]

Last ITT will be just 17km long according to the Gazzetta...

 

[houtdffan]

TT riders need not waste their time with the Giro

The final TT can basically be called an MTT. It's up and down a hill

 

[Red Rick]

no, it was used by him in 2014 and was planned in 2019. Unless you mean the Southern side.

I mean, the Gavia South descent is kinda dangerous, If you crash on certain sections of the road (mainly after the tunnel) you're pretty much done, not a lot to stop your fall for a looong time.

Yeah I meant that descent. Not that I think all that much is lost on not climbing Gavia from Bormio. Tbh plenty of descents have large drops, no? Is it that much worse than say the Aubisque