Giro d'Italia Giro d'Italia 2023 Stage 8: Terni – Fossombrone 207 km

[Lequack]

Lanterne rouge

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtPXmpgBGFY

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I was cooking during the stage and hadn’t rewatched it so, given the weight of multiple accounts vs my known unreliable one, it is reasonable to accept the multiple accounts.

Out of curiosity, I rewatched the end and I saw that actually you all are right, Remco was unable to hold the wheel on multiple occasions. Were the roles reversed, I am sure that Roglic would have held the wheel and been accused of being a wheelsucker, but I agree that Remco repeatedly was on the front, just progressively farther back.

I also saw that Ineos took over at 500m to go, not 1km.

I am curious, were you one who maligned Roglic as a wheelsucker, and how does this change your view? For many of us Roglic fans, while we didn’t love the conservative strategy visually, it seemed the correct course, and we also argued that when he is behind, he attacks and has no fear of putting his nose in the wind. Today, he did so. Thoughts?

Whether it was 500 or 1000 meters, i know they took over in the last km. I didn't check that closely at how many hundreds of meters it was. It was within the last km.

I also don't think in definitive labels. I have said in the past Roglic was wheelsucking, because at the time he was. That doesn't mean he always sucks wheel. I think he is a defensive rider more often than not. That doesn't mean he never attacks or can't attack. I have criticised Vingegaard for negative racing in the past, but i was happy to acknowledge the fact that he was taking initiative during last year's TDF. You could also ask people who criticised Ineos for wheelsucking today, what they thought of Roglic during Catalunya.

 

[Red Rick]

104	CAVENDISH Mark	Astana Qazaqstan Team				24:53
105	SWIFT Ben	INEOS Grenadiers				,,
106	KONYCHEV Alexander	Team Corratec - Selle Italia				,,
107	RIES Michel	Team Arkéa Samsic				,,
108	ACKERMANN Pascal	UAE Team Emirates				,,

Cavendish winning sprints in Ackerman stages. He still got it

 

[Netserk]

Ineos had an interest in pulling and taking time today. Rogla didn't in Catalunya.

 

[JRanton]

Actually I think Jumbo look quite good, considering half of their riders didn't know they were going to ride the Giro until last week. And Quickstep aren't that bad either. When push comes to shove it will be man against man anyway, with the exception of Ineos but as we've seen today, if it's not 'control the race all day and then drop everyone' they don't really know what to do.

Hart and Thomas went into the red to close the gap to Roglic. They both did the smart thing to recover on the descent particularly as Roglic is by far the best descender of the three. Just seems like irrational hate from Roglic fanboys.

 

[MrTea1976]

TGH is going to win the last TT. Bold prediction.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Whether it was 500 or 1000 meters, i know they took over in the last km. I didn't check that closely at how many hundreds of meters it was. It was within the last km.

I also don't think in definitive labels. I have said in the past Roglic was wheelsucking, because at the time he was. That doesn't mean he always sucks wheel. I think he is a defensive rider more often than not. That doesn't mean he never attacks or can't attack. I have criticised Vingegaard for negative racing in the past, but i was happy to acknowledge the fact that he was taking initiative during last year's TDF. You could also ask people who criticised Ineos for wheelsucking today, what they thought of Roglic during Catalunya.

I could, but that would be irrelevant as they are not leading the race.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I could, but that would be irrelevant as they are not leading the race.

Roglic wasn't leading the race in the Vuelta either.

 

[tobydawq]

LMFAO Geraint freaking Thomas. Get outta here.

How can anybody dislike him so much that they feel the need to mock him every time he shows himself, I just don't get it

 

[Potomac]

I won't call Hart and Thomas wheelsuckers for their lack of work today. I will say the made a strategic mistake by not helping themselves to putting more seconds on Remco.

 

[Gargamel35]

Maybe Ineos thinks Roglič is a bigger threat for overall GC then Remco.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Zoccarato dnf because he insisted on racing even with 39°C fever (negative Covid test). He tried to make it to the rest day because the Giro is the Giro, but in the end you can't do much if you're sick. I've done the Falzarego the day after suffering a sprained ankle, but riding with a fever/sick is where I draw the line, that is just senseless.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I won't call Hart and Thomas wheelsuckers for their lack of work today. I will say the made a strategic mistake by not helping themselves to putting more seconds on Remco.

And when Roglic does a subpar TT tomorrow because the effort today, and Evenepoel ends up shipping time in week 3, thus becoming a non-factor, will it still be a strategic mistake?

 

[RedheadDane]

Okay, PCS' little statistic about how many KMs a rider has been in the break is quite cool. However, sometimes - such as today - the number of KMs a rider has been solo is much more interesting:

13.05

1

53

Stage 8 - Terni › Fossombrone 196k

207 207

80

180

And apparently the stage was not 207 KM, it was 207 KM. Glad we cleared that out...

 

[Cookster15]

And when Roglic does a subpar TT tomorrow because the effort today

Roglic attacked in the final kilometers no? So it wasn't that big an effort. I think he's looking very strong. He will do a good TT, although, despite today its hard to see anyone other than Remco being easily best of the GC favorites after what we saw in the first stage demolition.

 

[Red Rick]

From Sporza

"It was not my best day", Remco Evenepoel confessed to the team bus. "Otherwise I could have followed Primoz Roglic ."

"It looked like he was feeling good. He doesn't just put his team in front and he wanted to put everyone under pressure. That worked out well."

Tao Geoghegan Hart and Geraint Thomas were able to follow after they found their second breath. "I would have done better like Thomas: up at my own pace."

"I jumped to Roglic's wheel, but 400 meters from the top it got steeper and my legs were completely full."

"It's another lesson I learn from an experienced rider. A bit unfortunate, a bit stupid maybe."

"I had the legs to follow, but if I misuse them, it's extra unfortunate."

"Fortunately I still have half a minute and hopefully tomorrow I will take seconds or a minute."

That's a lot of self contradicting word salad.

 

[Red Rick]

Didn't expect Evenepoel to drop here tbh. This is a hill very much like LBL, he hasn't really struggled with really steep stuff on short climbs as much as longer climbs in the past. Why he dropped I don't know but we can only grasp for reasons.

Roglic looked really strong. I didn't expect him to attack this early on the climb, I had thought he would wait for the final ramp and nuke it there. But here he was really badly positioned on the bump before the climb, he moved himself up to near the front of the group, and started launching as soon as he had the space.

TGH and Thomas I think looked tactically inept more than they were perhaps, I think they were just stone dead in Roglic wheel, Thomas could take one half turn and then couldn't anymore and TGH who had surfed in 3rd wheel for 5 minutes couldn't really make much of a dash for the line either.

I was kinda surprised about Evenepoels descent and flat too. I thought he was much more over his descending issues than he looked here, and it also didn't look like he gained any time back on the flat like he usually does.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

He lost about 3 second in the last 1.5 km. But he still got back to Almeida and Caruso pretty easily, Rogla was really flying.

 

[Netserk]

He lost about 3 second in the last 1.5 km. But he still got back to Almeida and Caruso pretty easily, Rogla was really flying.

And for the same reason he also wouldn't make it back if he was dropped by Pogi in Liège. Either he would be strong enough to follow or immediately bridge back, once there's a proper gap it's because he is not strong enough.

 

[Red Rick]

And for the same reason he also wouldn't make it back if he was dropped by Pogi in Liège. Either he would be strong enough to follow or immediately bridge back, once there's a proper gap it's because he is not strong enough.

Feel like I've seen a dropped Evenepoel pull back time on flats and false flats too often to put it that confidently.

I think it just kinda looked like Roglic didn't completely empty the gas tank on the uphill.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Roglic wasn't leading the race in the Vuelta either.

Since you’re going to extend the conversation to Vuelta 2022, I’ll tend to Vuelta 2021. Go to 12:00 in this video to see Roglic attacking 15km from the finish while in the lead.

View: https://youtu.be/5pXGpwDGuiQ

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Since you’re going to extend the conversation to Vuelta 2022, I’ll tend to Vuelta 2021. Go to 12:00 in this video to see Roglic attacking 15km from the finish while in the lead.

View: https://youtu.be/5pXGpwDGuiQ

Geoblocked. And like i clearly said at the very start upon being asked "I also don't think in definitive labels. I have said in the past Roglic was wheelsucking, because at the time he was. That doesn't mean he always sucks wheel. I think he is a defensive rider more often than not. That doesn't mean he never attacks or can't attack."

But people who feel Ineos today sucked Roglic wheel need to acknowledge they just did what Roglic did in the Vuelta. They weren't in the lead, gambled and didn't get involved.

 

[Samamba]

Zoccarato dnf because he insisted on racing even with 39°C fever (negative Covid test). He tried to make it to the rest day because the Giro is the Giro, but in the end you can't do much if you're sick. I've done the Falzarego the day after suffering a sprained ankle, but riding with a fever/sick is where I draw the line, that is just senseless.

Ridiculous that a team doctor lets this happen. Nothing to do with covid, you don't fking race with a fever that high ffs. Dangerous.

 

[Netserk]

When did Rogla have a gap on his rivals in the Vuelta without pulling on a flat run-in to the finish?

Unlike a MTF, the Ineos riders wouldn't be able to gap Rogla today after sitting on his wheel.

 

[staubsauger]

Zoccarato dnf because he insisted on racing even with 39°C fever (negative Covid test). He tried to make it to the rest day because the Giro is the Giro, but in the end you can't do much if you're sick. I've done the Falzarego the day after suffering a sprained ankle, but riding with a fever/sick is where I draw the line, that is just senseless.

Wasn't there one guy in 2005 or 2008, who had a hip fracture, but rode on because it was the Giro d'Italia?