Giro d'Italia Giro d'Italia 2025 Stage 17: San Michele all’Adige – Bormio, 155 km

[Red Rick]

Carapaz seems to overcommit (or overestimate his strength) in the last kms where he could make more time. People are critical when favorites sit on each other and then win the sprint finish as though they weren't aggressive enough. He's clearly got one gear for his aggression that might not be tall enough when you lose by seconds.
I love the aggressive tactics.

Attacking solo over the top of Mortirolo made little sense with which teams had teammates behind. He should have tried to isolate Del Toro rather than isolate himself.

 

[Extinction]

Carapaz seems to overcommit (or overestimate his strength) in the last kms where he could make more time. People are critical when favorites sit on each other and then win the sprint finish as though they weren't aggressive enough. He's clearly got one gear for his aggression that might not be tall enough when you lose by seconds.
I love the aggressive tactics.

Sure, but Carapaz also must attack now, as surely he will do on Friday and, if necessary, Saturday until he unseats Del Toro. I'm just wondering if he will succeed or somehow the kid managed to keep his pink jersey?

 

[Red Rick]

Actually the most important conclusion is Del Toro got quite some amazing recovering skills.
After bonking yesterday it could've been a disaster today (see Bernal or Tiberi). Instead he was fresh and ready for the hunt.
So yeah the guy's definitely GT material.

Nearly everyone recovered from yesterday. That's hardly the difference. Consistency in a Grand Tour doesn't help that much when your climbing on 40 minute climbs is consistently not good enough.

 

[Salvarani]

Actually the most important conclusion is Del Toro got quite some amazing recovering skills.
After bonking yesterday it could've been a disaster today (see Bernal or Tiberi). Instead he was fresh and ready for the hunt.
So yeah the guy's definitely GT material.

Hard to say he bonked. He defended himself well I think. It was damage control.

Question is if digging deep like that will eventually lead to a bonk on upcoming stages.

At the same time others may also pay for their efforts.

Race is kind of wide open between a few riders. It will be entertaining to see how it unfolds.

 

[Cycling111]

Actually the most important conclusion is Del Toro got quite some amazing recovering skills.
After bonking yesterday it could've been a disaster today (see Bernal or Tiberi). Instead he was fresh and ready for the hunt.
So yeah the guy's definitely GT material.

Tiberi already had a bad day yesterday. Tiberi's is a trend, not because he hasn't recovered from yesterday. His performance has declined since the accident

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Ayuso's fate in this race is hard to explain, other than perhaps his crash took a lot more out of him than expected. In any case, I wonder if he's going to be available to help Del Toro this weekend.

 

[dobrien]

Ayuso's fate in this race is hard to explain, other than perhaps his crash took a lot more out of him than expected. In any case, I wonder if he's going to be available to help Del Toro this weekend.

Anyone hear anything about whether Ayuso rode in the gruppetto today per team orders, or if that was just all he had? The former would certainly bode better for the weekend than the latter...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Well, if Ayuso goes for the stage win on Friday instead of helping Del Toro, we'll have a lot of answers, I think.

 

[Rackham]

Well, if Ayuso goes for the stage win on Friday instead of helping Del Toro, we'll have a lot of answers, I think.

I get the feeling a load of people would actually love that for all the wrong reasons, namely just to hate the guy. I mean picture the scene: Del Toro, fighting for survival 4km from the summit of Finestre... and Juan Ayuso who was yo-yoing off the back of the maglia rosa group for 10k already... comes to the front as soon as Carapaz attacks and drops Del Toro... and then... oh dear... he drops Del Toro himself and chases down Carapaz! *insert internet outrage, Mexico declaring war on Spain and mou screaming abuse*

But no, the reality is way more mundane. Ayuso's knee injury has simply borked his Giro.

 

[topcat]

I really think this Giro has nothing to do with the Pog and it's a great race.
Probably a 3 horse race now (sorry Gee and Netserk). Del Toro, SYates and Carapaz (three exciting riders).

 

[yaco]

Bernal and Tudor can both just follow Del Toro plan, and get a good day after a bad one.
Bernal was obviously feeling pretty good until he wasn't, had his guys applying consistent heat at base of climb(s) he looked good until he didn't. His form is certainly great because he is third week in GT, almost making selection and instigating some action, despite crashing, impressive overall, but sure bad day..
Pidcock getting a little wake up on making selections. I thought he would have been an uphill factor a couple of times by now.

Lets be realistic! Ineos has suffered from hubris this Giro. They've tried to adopt their successful aggressive racing style into the GC prism in this Giro without success. When you have two stages where bernal attacks with just less than 100kms to go with lots of upcoming valleys and no satellite riders you are going nowhere. Had they ridden a thoughtful and considered race then Bernal would probably be where Gee is currently standing.

 

[Rackham]

I think the situation has turned around.
Ayuso has become something of an idol for Pogacar's haters. Not because they like Ayuso, but simply because they hate another rider.

The reverse is also true. Ayuso has become a punching ball for the mou-brigade. These people are especially interesting insofar as they act like they own shares in team UAE and everything that Ayuso does is psychoanalyzed from the standpoint of "is this good for UAE and Pogi's mates".

 

[search]

Bernal today said that he enjoys cycling much more now than during his more successful days.

He's not paid for having fun, of course, but I guess it plays a part in their strategies,

 

[perico]

But wasn't he also beginning to struggle on some of the relatively easier climbs today as well? Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan and today he showed all kinds of grit and pride; I would LOVE to see him win this. Simply if someone forced me to place all my money on one rider today, I just couldn't do it yet for Isaac (I'd be happy to be proven wrong!).

I don’t think he was struggling. He let the move go and bridged over to Yates. He could’ve been afraid after yesterday about going deep.

We just don’t have enough to go on yet before we define his strengths or weaknesses.

 

[KZD]

Happy for Del Toro, he really deserved a stage win and it was an impressive attack (reminded me a bit of Van der Poel)

Carapaz still seems to be the strongest in the long climbs but he also seemed so in the 2022 Giro and then cracked on Fedaia. Plus Del Toro is now a bit further away on the GC and Simon Yates is still a contender as its Gee, so this Giro is still far from being decided.

Sad for Bardet, this could have been the day he completed wins in all three GTs hope that he tries again on stages 19 and 20.

 

[dobrien]

I don’t think he was struggling. He let the move go and bridged over to Yates. He could’ve been afraid after yesterday about going deep.

We just don’t have enough to go on yet before we define his strengths or weaknesses.

Don't necessarily disagree with any of this.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

End of the day Del Toro will still be in pink and will probably put a few more seconds into Yates and Carapaz

Well predicted

 

[red_flanders]

Probably a 3 horse race now (sorry Gee and Netserk). Del Toro, SYates and Carapaz (three exciting riders).

Gee is still under 2 mins back and looking very strong. I think he's for sure got a good chance at the podium, yes? I think you're referring to his chances to win.

For sure he's shown a lot in this race, I under-rated him before.

 

[Squire]

Gee is still under 2 mins back and looking very strong. I think he's for sure got a good chance at the podium, yes? I think you're referring to his chances to win.

For sure he's shown a lot in this race, I under-rated him before.

Wonder if Finestre suits his grinding style relatively better than out-of-saddle-climbers Carapaz, Yates and Del Toro. Probably not enough of a difference to equalize the difference in climbing level. And Landa and Rujano were great on Finestre too, so maybe my idea doesn't make sense.

 

[Cookster15]

Carapaz still seems to be the strongest in the long climbs but he also seemed so in the 2022 Giro and then cracked on Fedaia. Plus Del Toro is now a bit further away on the GC and Simon Yates is still a contender as its Gee, so this Giro is still far from being decided.

Agree. But I still think Carapaz is the big threat. He was in pink for a long time in 2022 and defended well until he cracked on Fedaia. Not sure that is going to repeat. The hardest and longest climb this Giro is the Finestre. Del Toro looks very vulnerable and I now think Carapaz can prevail.

 

[Cycling111]

There's a lot of talk about Finestre, but little about Friday's stage.
The Finestre stage will also depend on how hard Friday's stage is.
Or do you think the riders will be conservative with Finestre in mind?

 

[red_flanders]

Wonder if Finestre suits his grinding style relatively better than out-of-saddle-climbers Carapaz, Yates and Del Toro. Probably not enough of a difference to equalize the difference in climbing level. And Landa and Rujano were great on Finestre too, so maybe my idea doesn't make sense.

You're thinking about traction on the steep gravel climb I think...a good thought. I would also think a standing style could lead to loss of traction. I feel like I'd be at a disadvantage to smaller riders, but that's a horrible comparison as no one in the peloton is anywhere near my size.

I think an interesting thing to keep an eye on during the stage.

 

[Extinction]

I don’t think he was struggling. He let the move go and bridged over to Yates. He could’ve been afraid after yesterday about going deep.

We just don’t have enough to go on yet before we define his strengths or weaknesses.

Don't forget he's only 21, in the future he Will get stronger and ad astra.

 

[red_flanders]

There's a lot of talk about Finestre, but little about Friday's stage.
The Finestre stage will also depend on how hard Friday's stage is.
Or do you think the riders will be conservative with Finestre in mind?

I do think most will try to be conservative, but I also think Friday is going to expose some tired legs. It's a lot of repeated climbs.

 

[James M]

There's a lot of talk about Finestre, but little about Friday's stage.
The Finestre stage will also depend on how hard Friday's stage is.

True. Finestre stage is also somewhat lackluster prior to Finestre, and that impacts the difficulty throughout as well.

I do think most will try to be conservative, but I also think Friday is going to expose some tired legs. It's a lot of repeated climbs.

Friday stage has just as much potential, if not more, if raced hard to expose tired legs imo. It depends on how they race it indeed, in a vacuum, Finestre is the hardest climb, but not the hardest stage.