Giro d'Italia Giro D'Italia 2025 Stage 9: Gubbio – Siena (181km)

[Unchained]

I also think it's a bit rich for people to complain about WvA sitting on when del Toro also benefitted from being able to sit on the Ineos pair for ages (and yes, I am salty because Ineos's plan didn't quite come off).

It's like in court when someone objects, that was already asked and answered previously!!
Del Toro was completely satisfied with Wout reasoning but other people are not because of some misunderstanding, the misunderstanding that Van Aert was playing chess not checkers, helped himself to grand tour win, and by playing it smart helped Visma overall allowing Yates to keep things manageable.
Intelligent racing with 200 heart rate ,going uphill against a good climber, on a skinny road..brilliant to me! I wish I had a hundredth of Van Aert ability!! I am jealous not angry!!!

 

[Samu Cuenca]

But we know that criticism is often based on the jersey or the rider's name.
If today Wout is Del Toro and Del Toro is Wout, they would be saying nice things to Del Toro .
A UAE beating Van Aert like this sets social media on fire.

There's a lot of hypocrisy. I agree with what you're saying, but depending on the name of the wheel-sucker, and the name of the person who lost because of the wheel-sucker, they don't usually take anything into consideration (injuries...).

I don't think anyone will claim Del Toro is a great or real champion (yet) at this stage, so different rules apply, even if he is riding for the no. 1 team at the moment. I wouldn't call Valverde one either though, but I acknowledge that some will

Del Toro could either have tried harder to drop Van Aert, offered him the stage win in exchange for pulls (he probably wouldn't have budged with Yates behind), or have stopped riding himself, but that wouldn't have helped his own cause. In the end Van Aert won the stage and Del Toro got the jersey with a decent margin, so they should both be happy.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Ayuso having his leg sown up at the finish, Mcnulty also looks worse for wear, good for him finishing quite high up.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

For some unknown reason, you seem to think Ciccone is the only one in the team who can win the stage - and that the entire team should have been dedicated to him today.

Fair enough if that is your position, but I disagree.

No, not at all. Nice straw man.

i just think it is clear that the way it turned out with the group of Bernal, Del Toro and WVA up the road it’s obvious to me that Ciccone (because of his punch in the last murito) was the best option and because he is also their GC guy it’s a possibility of both stage win and important GC time on the table.

Vacek could definitively win this stage in the right group, for example if he had been with Bernal, Del Toro and WVA from the start. Bridging 45 seconds alone just before a brutal uphill grave sector was always going to be a suicide move (we were a lot of posters pointing that out when it happened), and the Trek car should have known that and changed plan.

Just sticking to the plan when the situation on the road clearly tells you it’s not going to work out is just stupid.

 

[tobydawq]

When did Ayuso crash? The same time as Roglic? I didn't notice (and neither did TV).

By the way, today was a great day to have the multiscreen as a second screen.

 

[Rackham]

3. His statement tells us, that he was not cooked but riding in favour of Simon Yates. I simply do not buy this. He was just sitting on Del Toros wheel with the intention to save his own race, not the one of Yates. This is his right to do so, but it is not a nice way to win. At least in my opinion. And it is unlogic too. Because he must have known, that Del Toro is not UAE's man for the overall victory. Above all, as Ayuso was sitting in the next group.

Context is everything. The concept of "wheelsucking" is always tenuous at best with regards to damming such riding because heavy bias is involved but in this instance I'd suggest people actually read the room, i.e. Van Aert was racing against a UAE rider - aka number one team in the UCI ranking by a huge margin and also one of Visma's main historical rivals in recent years. That's literal sport. He's also coming back from some pretty horrible stuff (Vuelta accident namely and some real misfortune) so when he's on the wheel of UAE's newest baddest hotshot and soon-to-be pink jersey wearer, he's totally entitled to sit on that rider's wheel and do whatever it takes to win the stage.

 

[Andre]

1. Van Aert himself did not feel all too good with his way of riding the last 15 k's. "I had to ride against my nature" (tranlation of the quote in Flemish), that says all.

2. This is exactly, what I meant with my post. This was no longer the Van Aert of old times. And if you like that, it is perfectly your right to do so. I do not.

3. His statement tells us, that he was not cooked but riding in favour of Simon Yates. I simply do not buy this. He was just sitting on Del Toros wheel with the intention to save his own race, not the one of Yates. This is his right to do so, but it is not a nice way to win. At least in my opinion. And it is unlogic too. Because he must have known, that Del Toro is not UAE's man for the overall victory. Above all, as Ayuso was sitting in the next group.

Van Aert did what he had to do. He rode smart and strong for still recovering from illness and La Vuelta crash. I'm amazed that he can even perform as well as he did today, since his knee was and still is in quite shambles. He remains the beast he's always been.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, what does the 2nd highest ranked team in the world (without Pogacar, Vingegaard, Evenepoel and MvdP) know - they should spend more time on the forums

Judging by how hard they shoot themselves in the foot every monument, they know very little about strategy.

 

[Tim Cahill]

When did Ayuso crash? The same time as Roglic? I didn't notice (and neither did TV).

By the way, today was a great day to have the multiscreen as a second screen.

I'd missed it at first so went back, I think same time as Roglic, he just got straight back up look on the right hand side, he's blocked by the trees a bit.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1924105237851152788

 

[Peyroteo94]

Ayuso having his leg sown up at the finish, Mcnulty also looks worse for wear, good for him finishing quite high up.

He needed stitches.

 

[Boehmand]

No, not at all. Nice straw man.

i just think it is clear that the way it turned out with the group of Bernal, Del Toro and WVA up the road it’s obvious to me that Ciccone (because of his punch in the last murito) was the best option and because he is also their GC guy it’s a possibility of both stage win and important GC time on the table.

Vacek could definitively win this stage in the right group, for example if he had been with Bernal, Del Toro and WVA from the start. Bridging 45 seconds alone just before a brutal uphill grave sector was always going to be a suicide move (we were a lot of posters pointing that out when it happened), and the Trek car should have known that and changed plan.

Just sticking to the plan when the situation on the road clearly tells you it’s not going to work out is just stupid.

If Ciccone wanted to make the front group, he could have just gone when Vacek did and sat on his wheel the whole ride there... problem solved.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Dauphiné Libéré Final: Valverde wins to give UCI a headache

Controversial Spaniard now tops UCI world rankings

road.cc

His entire premise is that Wout is the first major rider to ever sit on a wheel and then come around at the end to win. It's a bizarre premise, to say the least.

Johan Bruyneel/Miguel Indurain '95 TDF stage 7

 

[Rackham]

Ayuso having his leg sown up at the finish, Mcnulty also looks worse for wear, good for him finishing quite high up.

What a chaotic stage. We had no idea Ayuso had gone down as well.

Neutral spectators might have loved it but it's a bit much when the two pre-race favorites end the stage cut and bloodied.

Mad Max stuff tbh. Thunderdome.

 

[Boehmand]

Judging by how hard they shoot themselves in the foot every monument, they know very little about strategy.

Are you high?

M-SR: Pogacar dropped everyone but MvdP and Ganna on Cipressa, Pedersen blew himself up trying to bridge the gap and only got 7th.

Ronde: Pogacar dropped everyone on Kruisberg - Pedersen got 2nd

P-R: Pedersen would have sprinted for the win (and arguably won) had he not gotten a flat - he got 3rd.

L-B-L: Pogacar blew everyone up on La Redoute - Ciccone got 2nd.

What exactly is it you wanted them to do differently?

 

[Peyroteo94]

What a chaotic stage. We had no idea Ayuso had gone down as well.

Neutral spectators might have loved it but it's a bit much when the two pre-race favorites end the stage cut and bloodied.

Mad Max stuff tbh. Thunderdome.

No it's not. GT should be won by all around riders.

 

[red_flanders]

No it's not. GT should be won by all around riders.

I don't really agree with the lamenting of stages like this (though I understand the argument), but being an all-around rider has nothing to do with someone face-planting in front of you. Short of being a magician on the bike, which we've seen from riders like Pogi at times, there seemed to be no avoiding the crash. And crashes happen on tarmac as well.

I think the puncture today was the most typical example of bad luck from a stage like today.

IMO today was glorious, easily the best stage of the race.

 

[Red Rick]

Are you high?

M-SR: Pogacar dropped everyone but MvdP and Ganna on Cipressa, Pedersen blew himself up trying to bridge the gap and only got 7th.

Ronde: Pogacar dropped everyone on Kruisberg - Pedersen got 2nd

P-R: Pedersen would have sprinted for the win (and arguably won) had he not gotten a flat - he got 3rd.

L-B-L: Pogacar blew everyone up on La Redoute - Ciccone got 2nd.

What exactly is it you wanted them to do differently?

Pedersen getting 2nd in RVV is a happy accident. The moment he was with Van der Poel and Pogacar and he was taking turns before getting dropped like a stone on the next hill shows everything he's done wrong very consistently.

I am not high, but maybe I need to be piss drunk to lower my level of cycling analysis to that of the average cycling DS.

 

[Boehmand]

No it's not. GT should be won by all around riders.

I agree GTs should be won by all-round riders.

I just islike it when luck plays too big a part, and that is often the case when you throw gravel or cobbles into a GT - especially when the weather plays up.

It's a great spectacle and I love watching it - it's highly entertaining - but it most definitely makes it less likely that it IS in fact the best "all-round rider" who wins, because that particular rider might very well have lost the GT on that stage, through sheer bad luck.

 

[Rackham]

No it's not. GT should be won by all around riders.

Back in my day eh (basically when I was a little kid watching this stuff on tv, at least what was available to watch on tv) Big Mig Indurain won because he demolished everyone in ITT's that were way, way longer than whatever we get nowadays.

So it's all relative to whatever era a rider races in and whatever "flavor of the month" these race organisers like to jam into a GT's route. These days it seems to be gravel is on the menu. Meanwhile Remco Evenepoel is probably lying in bed dreaming he was racing in the 1990's.

 

[Unchained]

1. Van Aert himself did not feel all too good with his way of riding the last 15 k's. "I had to ride against my nature" (tranlation of the quote in Flemish), that says all.

2. This is exactly, what I meant with my post. This was no longer the Van Aert of old times. And if you like that, it is perfectly your right to do so. I do not.

3. His statement tells us, that he was not cooked but riding in favour of Simon Yates. I simply do not buy this. He was just sitting on Del Toros wheel with the intention to save his own race, not the one of Yates. This is his right to do so, but it is not a nice way to win. At least in my opinion. And it is unlogic too. Because he must have known, that Del Toro is not UAE's man for the overall victory. Above all, as Ayuso was sitting in the next group.

The funniest thing about all this non controversy is that everyone can be right!! And it's all right there on video, Wout does suck wheel, he tells Del Toro why, he does help limit damage to Simon Yates and doesn't help the wounded powerhouse of UAE, so Del Toro wins, he gets another awesome second in a week, of a grand tour!
He gets , Christmas, birthday and bunch of others rolled into one day!! So he woke up, ate breakfast, rolled around, warmed up, went over team plan again with designated leader, Juan Ayuso, all hell broke loose as gravel predicted,
Del Toro, right place right time, did his best, which turned out to be better than everyone else except for cycling, cyclocross, Grand tour green jersey monster, Wout Van Aert Del Toro ran over a winning lottery ticket that stuck to his wheel, couldn't get it off and now instead of getting a high five from Juan Ayuso for another job well done, he gets a prestigious pink jersey, that just a few hours before he wasn't thinking about!!
Simon Yates wins, or loses less, comes in 5th, not bleeding.
The only person who is likely let down by anything today, is another Mexican!! The very very distant thunder he had as most accomplished Mexican bike racer has been completely blacked out by Del Toro.. So Raul Alcala can belly ache about nobody remembers him after Isaac is shining like an unassuming super nova!!!

 

[KZD]

Best stage of this Giro so far, once again showing that gravel belongs in Grand Tours.

I think Van Aert played it perfectly today, not only he had Simon Yates on the second group, which is still an overall candidate, he was also taken to the limit by Del Toro on Collo Pinzuto. Perfect stage to complete the trilogy of GT stage wins.

Del Toro the strongest rider today, he looked completely at ease in the sterrato and his performance in the last 15km showed that he is in great shape. He needs to be taken as a real GC contender from now on because we don't even know his ceiling in a GT.

Really liked Ciccone and Carapaz and watch out for Simon Yates, he is quietly avoiding bad luck and he is one of the GC riders that has been avoiding bad luck and has won a GT before. Roglič still the safest option to win GC but he did lost quite a bit of time that depending on Ayuso or Del Toro's strength might be difficult to gain back.

 

[dr.eve]

1. Van Aert himself did not feel all too good with his way of riding the last 15 k's. "I had to ride against my nature" (tranlation of the quote in Flemish), that says all.

2. This is exactly, what I meant with my post. This was no longer the Van Aert of old times. And if you like that, it is perfectly your right to do so. I do not.

3. His statement tells us, that he was not cooked but riding in favour of Simon Yates. I simply do not buy this. He was just sitting on Del Toros wheel with the intention to save his own race, not the one of Yates. This is his right to do so, but it is not a nice way to win. At least in my opinion. And it is unlogic too. Because he must have known, that Del Toro is not UAE's man for the overall victory. Above all, as Ayuso was sitting in the next group.

Your whole post is just based on your own opinion that you do not believe what Van Aert said in the post-race interview.

I alsp believe Del Toro was more fresh at the 15km mark. But Van Aert never cracked once, so he never was cooked for real like Bernal actually did. Combine this with the fact that Van Aert is so much more experienced, knows today's finish well and is the type of rider that can dive quite deep into his reserves... I actually find Van Aert's remarks plausible. And your points well just your opinion man.

This was a very nice win, many ingredients of beautiful cycling. It had action at an early moment (at the very first gravel section) initiated by... Van Aert. It had a team, INEOS, with an offensive strategy (dont see that too often from that team), it had tons of drama (pidcock, roglic, arensman etc), it had a young revelation (Del Toro) finding himself in a very difficult position mentally (going for the win? What about my teamlead? Do I go all in?, how do I work with the others in the attack?). It had Vacek making a crazy rush forward only to fall back. It had the guy who everyone would consider the biggest winner mentally today of all favorites, Ayuso, actually crack a bit in the end. It has his big rival Roglic losing time but still very much in it with classic Roglic mentality. And it had Van Aert riding with courage holding on desperatly and riding with experience and strategy. Combine that with where Van Aert has been coming from... and all that in this beautiful Siena surroundings.

Yes this was wonderful.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I don't really agree with the lamenting of stages like this (though I understand the argument), but being an all-around rider has nothing to do with someone face-planting in front of you. Short of being a magician on the bike, which we've seen from riders like Pogi at times, there seemed to be no avoiding the crash. And crashes happen on tarmac as well.

I think the puncture today was the most typical example of bad luck from a stage like today.

IMO today was glorious, easily the best stage of the race.

How many time did Roglic crash in a GT? I don't even know and this is always happening with Roglic, maybe it isn't just bad luck. Last year he was completely cooked in the gravel stage too mainly because he was badly positioned. Of course his puncture was bad luck but his crash I don't believe it is just bad luck and we can't blame the surface, this is the first time he crashes on another terrain (even his crash in the Tour 2022 was on tarmac and not on cobbles).

 

[Gratemans]

Great, great win for Wout. And to people that say Wout did anything wrong.. well, I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.
Perfectly ridden, textbook stuff.
That being said, I really think a deal was made in the end. You get pink, I get the stage. Seemed pretty obvious to me, but I don't mind. It's one of those tings I actually love about cycling.

 

[red_flanders]

How many time did Roglic crash in a GT? I don't even know and this is always happening with Roglic, maybe it isn't just bad luck. Last year he was completely cooked in the gravel stage too mainly because he was badly positioned. Of course his puncture was bad luck but his crash I don't believe it is just bad luck and we can't blame the surface, this is the first time he crashes on another terrain (even his crash in the Tour 2022 was on tarmac and not on cobbles).

Many times. I'm talking about today. He didn't crash today because he's not an all-rounder. He got taken out.

But yes, he's VERY often been the source of his own demise. But to make that comment after what happened today seems a bit off.