Giro d'Italia Giro D'Italia 2025 Stage 9: Gubbio – Siena (181km)

[OWIOWI]

If you blame WVA for wheelsucking in this scenario, you simply do not understand cycling. And I know you do. Its laughable to critisize Wout for that. Was a great win, especially after the injury and other setbacks and all his 2nds this year.

Van Aert apologised for not working with Del Toro throughout the final kilometres.

"I have to say [Del Toro] did such an amazing ride. I felt a bit *** to not pull too much with him, because obviously he's also a competitor for my teammate, Simon Yates, and had to leave the work to him.

"Hij heeft geweldig gereden", steekt onze landgenoot de loftrompet voor de renner van UAE. "Ik moest tegen mijn natuur in koersen vandaag. Ik wil echt proficiat zeggen tegen Isaac. Hij rijdt een prachtige koers en wordt beloond met de roze trui."

1. Van Aert himself did not feel all too good with his way of riding the last 15 k's. "I had to ride against my nature" (tranlation of the quote in Flemish), that says all.

2. This is exactly, what I meant with my post. This was no longer the Van Aert of old times. And if you like that, it is perfectly your right to do so. I do not.

3. His statement tells us, that he was not cooked but riding in favour of Simon Yates. I simply do not buy this. He was just sitting on Del Toros wheel with the intention to save his own race, not the one of Yates. This is his right to do so, but it is not a nice way to win. At least in my opinion. And it is unlogic too. Because he must have known, that Del Toro is not UAE's man for the overall victory. Above all, as Ayuso was sitting in the next group.

 

[Red Rick]

Watching Vacek on the first 9 stages, makes me wonder why you would think the was "super low %" to take the stage.

He's a top quality rider, almost as strong as Pedersen but a better climber.

- And Lidl's DS seems to agree with me

Because you burn all your matches closing a gap like that solo, and because the finish always favors a lighter rider.

DS's #1 job is to be a former rider who is confidently wrong every day.

 

[Netserk]

He literally said he wasn't proud to do it but he had no choice.

And whether or not he should be proud was not what was being discussed.

I think it's a big shame that he wasn't proud of that. It's much more honourable to ride strategically sound with the aim for the victory than to mindlessly trade pulls.

Time to be more like Rui Costa, Wout.

 

[Red Rick]

I think it's a big shame that he wasn't proud of that. It's much more honourable to ride strategically sound with the aim for the victory than to mindlessly trade pulls.

Time to be more like Rui Costa, Wout.

Current crop of riders making me worship Rui Costa what is this timeline

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

1. Van Aert himself did not feel all too good with his way of riding the last 15 k's. "I had to ride against my nature" (tranlation of the quote in Flemish), that says all.

2. This is exactly, what I meant with my post. This was no longer the Van Aert of old times. And if you like that, it is perfectly your right to do so. I do not.

3. His statement tells us, that he was not cooked but riding in favour of Simon Yates. I simply do not buy this. He was just sitting on Del Toros wheel with the intention to save his own race, not the one of Yates. This is his right to do so, but it is not a nice way to win. At least in my opinion. And it is unlogic too. Because he must have known, that Del Toro is not UAE's man for the overall victory. Above all, as Ayuso was sitting in the next group.

This I agree with, as Wout carries his condition on his face, and he was hurting, and Del Toro clearly felt great.

But to suggest that he should have ridden in a way that would have made his win less likely, is strange. He rode how he had to, to win. He said so himself...and last time any of us checked, winning was the purpose of riding, for team and rider.

As a fan, it was nice to see him win. I don't really care if he had to bite his stem, and stay 2mm's away from Del Toro's wheel to do so.

 

[Blanco]

3. His statement tells us, that he was not cooked but riding in favour of Simon Yates. I simply do not buy this. He was just sitting on Del Toros wheel with the intention to save his own race, not the one of Yates. This is his right to do so, but it is not a nice way to win. At least in my opinion. And it is unlogic too. Because he must have known, that Del Toro is not UAE's man for the overall victory. Above all, as Ayuso was sitting in the next group.

Exactly.

 

[Unchained]

I also think it's a bit rich for people to complain about WvA sitting on when del Toro also benefitted from being able to sit on the Ineos pair for ages (and yes, I am salty because Ineos's plan didn't quite come off).

It's like in court when someone objects, that was already asked and answered previously!!
Del Toro was completely satisfied with Wout reasoning but other people are not because of some misunderstanding, the misunderstanding that Van Aert was playing chess not checkers, helped himself to grand tour win, and by playing it smart helped Visma overall allowing Yates to keep things manageable.
Intelligent racing with 200 heart rate ,going uphill against a good climber, on a skinny road..brilliant to me! I wish I had a hundredth of Van Aert ability!! I am jealous not angry!!!

 

[Samu Cuenca]

But we know that criticism is often based on the jersey or the rider's name.
If today Wout is Del Toro and Del Toro is Wout, they would be saying nice things to Del Toro .
A UAE beating Van Aert like this sets social media on fire.

There's a lot of hypocrisy. I agree with what you're saying, but depending on the name of the wheel-sucker, and the name of the person who lost because of the wheel-sucker, they don't usually take anything into consideration (injuries...).

I don't think anyone will claim Del Toro is a great or real champion (yet) at this stage, so different rules apply, even if he is riding for the no. 1 team at the moment. I wouldn't call Valverde one either though, but I acknowledge that some will

Del Toro could either have tried harder to drop Van Aert, offered him the stage win in exchange for pulls (he probably wouldn't have budged with Yates behind), or have stopped riding himself, but that wouldn't have helped his own cause. In the end Van Aert won the stage and Del Toro got the jersey with a decent margin, so they should both be happy.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Ayuso having his leg sown up at the finish, Mcnulty also looks worse for wear, good for him finishing quite high up.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

For some unknown reason, you seem to think Ciccone is the only one in the team who can win the stage - and that the entire team should have been dedicated to him today.

Fair enough if that is your position, but I disagree.

No, not at all. Nice straw man.

i just think it is clear that the way it turned out with the group of Bernal, Del Toro and WVA up the road it’s obvious to me that Ciccone (because of his punch in the last murito) was the best option and because he is also their GC guy it’s a possibility of both stage win and important GC time on the table.

Vacek could definitively win this stage in the right group, for example if he had been with Bernal, Del Toro and WVA from the start. Bridging 45 seconds alone just before a brutal uphill grave sector was always going to be a suicide move (we were a lot of posters pointing that out when it happened), and the Trek car should have known that and changed plan.

Just sticking to the plan when the situation on the road clearly tells you it’s not going to work out is just stupid.

 

[tobydawq]

When did Ayuso crash? The same time as Roglic? I didn't notice (and neither did TV).

By the way, today was a great day to have the multiscreen as a second screen.

 

[Rackham]

3. His statement tells us, that he was not cooked but riding in favour of Simon Yates. I simply do not buy this. He was just sitting on Del Toros wheel with the intention to save his own race, not the one of Yates. This is his right to do so, but it is not a nice way to win. At least in my opinion. And it is unlogic too. Because he must have known, that Del Toro is not UAE's man for the overall victory. Above all, as Ayuso was sitting in the next group.

Context is everything. The concept of "wheelsucking" is always tenuous at best with regards to damming such riding because heavy bias is involved but in this instance I'd suggest people actually read the room, i.e. Van Aert was racing against a UAE rider - aka number one team in the UCI ranking by a huge margin and also one of Visma's main historical rivals in recent years. That's literal sport. He's also coming back from some pretty horrible stuff (Vuelta accident namely and some real misfortune) so when he's on the wheel of UAE's newest baddest hotshot and soon-to-be pink jersey wearer, he's totally entitled to sit on that rider's wheel and do whatever it takes to win the stage.

 

[Andre]

1. Van Aert himself did not feel all too good with his way of riding the last 15 k's. "I had to ride against my nature" (tranlation of the quote in Flemish), that says all.

2. This is exactly, what I meant with my post. This was no longer the Van Aert of old times. And if you like that, it is perfectly your right to do so. I do not.

3. His statement tells us, that he was not cooked but riding in favour of Simon Yates. I simply do not buy this. He was just sitting on Del Toros wheel with the intention to save his own race, not the one of Yates. This is his right to do so, but it is not a nice way to win. At least in my opinion. And it is unlogic too. Because he must have known, that Del Toro is not UAE's man for the overall victory. Above all, as Ayuso was sitting in the next group.

Van Aert did what he had to do. He rode smart and strong for still recovering from illness and La Vuelta crash. I'm amazed that he can even perform as well as he did today, since his knee was and still is in quite shambles. He remains the beast he's always been.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, what does the 2nd highest ranked team in the world (without Pogacar, Vingegaard, Evenepoel and MvdP) know - they should spend more time on the forums

Judging by how hard they shoot themselves in the foot every monument, they know very little about strategy.

 

[Tim Cahill]

When did Ayuso crash? The same time as Roglic? I didn't notice (and neither did TV).

By the way, today was a great day to have the multiscreen as a second screen.

I'd missed it at first so went back, I think same time as Roglic, he just got straight back up look on the right hand side, he's blocked by the trees a bit.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1924105237851152788

 

[Peyroteo94]

Ayuso having his leg sown up at the finish, Mcnulty also looks worse for wear, good for him finishing quite high up.

He needed stitches.

 

[Boehmand]

No, not at all. Nice straw man.

i just think it is clear that the way it turned out with the group of Bernal, Del Toro and WVA up the road it’s obvious to me that Ciccone (because of his punch in the last murito) was the best option and because he is also their GC guy it’s a possibility of both stage win and important GC time on the table.

Vacek could definitively win this stage in the right group, for example if he had been with Bernal, Del Toro and WVA from the start. Bridging 45 seconds alone just before a brutal uphill grave sector was always going to be a suicide move (we were a lot of posters pointing that out when it happened), and the Trek car should have known that and changed plan.

Just sticking to the plan when the situation on the road clearly tells you it’s not going to work out is just stupid.

If Ciccone wanted to make the front group, he could have just gone when Vacek did and sat on his wheel the whole ride there... problem solved.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Dauphiné Libéré Final: Valverde wins to give UCI a headache

Controversial Spaniard now tops UCI world rankings

road.cc

His entire premise is that Wout is the first major rider to ever sit on a wheel and then come around at the end to win. It's a bizarre premise, to say the least.

Johan Bruyneel/Miguel Indurain '95 TDF stage 7

 

[Rackham]

Ayuso having his leg sown up at the finish, Mcnulty also looks worse for wear, good for him finishing quite high up.

What a chaotic stage. We had no idea Ayuso had gone down as well.

Neutral spectators might have loved it but it's a bit much when the two pre-race favorites end the stage cut and bloodied.

Mad Max stuff tbh. Thunderdome.

 

[Boehmand]

Judging by how hard they shoot themselves in the foot every monument, they know very little about strategy.

Are you high?

M-SR: Pogacar dropped everyone but MvdP and Ganna on Cipressa, Pedersen blew himself up trying to bridge the gap and only got 7th.

Ronde: Pogacar dropped everyone on Kruisberg - Pedersen got 2nd

P-R: Pedersen would have sprinted for the win (and arguably won) had he not gotten a flat - he got 3rd.

L-B-L: Pogacar blew everyone up on La Redoute - Ciccone got 2nd.

What exactly is it you wanted them to do differently?

 

[Peyroteo94]

What a chaotic stage. We had no idea Ayuso had gone down as well.

Neutral spectators might have loved it but it's a bit much when the two pre-race favorites end the stage cut and bloodied.

Mad Max stuff tbh. Thunderdome.

No it's not. GT should be won by all around riders.

 

[red_flanders]

No it's not. GT should be won by all around riders.

I don't really agree with the lamenting of stages like this (though I understand the argument), but being an all-around rider has nothing to do with someone face-planting in front of you. Short of being a magician on the bike, which we've seen from riders like Pogi at times, there seemed to be no avoiding the crash. And crashes happen on tarmac as well.

I think the puncture today was the most typical example of bad luck from a stage like today.

IMO today was glorious, easily the best stage of the race.

 

[Red Rick]

Are you high?

M-SR: Pogacar dropped everyone but MvdP and Ganna on Cipressa, Pedersen blew himself up trying to bridge the gap and only got 7th.

Ronde: Pogacar dropped everyone on Kruisberg - Pedersen got 2nd

P-R: Pedersen would have sprinted for the win (and arguably won) had he not gotten a flat - he got 3rd.

L-B-L: Pogacar blew everyone up on La Redoute - Ciccone got 2nd.

What exactly is it you wanted them to do differently?

Pedersen getting 2nd in RVV is a happy accident. The moment he was with Van der Poel and Pogacar and he was taking turns before getting dropped like a stone on the next hill shows everything he's done wrong very consistently.

I am not high, but maybe I need to be piss drunk to lower my level of cycling analysis to that of the average cycling DS.

 

[Boehmand]

No it's not. GT should be won by all around riders.

I agree GTs should be won by all-round riders.

I just islike it when luck plays too big a part, and that is often the case when you throw gravel or cobbles into a GT - especially when the weather plays up.

It's a great spectacle and I love watching it - it's highly entertaining - but it most definitely makes it less likely that it IS in fact the best "all-round rider" who wins, because that particular rider might very well have lost the GT on that stage, through sheer bad luck.

 

[Rackham]

No it's not. GT should be won by all around riders.

Back in my day eh (basically when I was a little kid watching this stuff on tv, at least what was available to watch on tv) Big Mig Indurain won because he demolished everyone in ITT's that were way, way longer than whatever we get nowadays.

So it's all relative to whatever era a rider races in and whatever "flavor of the month" these race organisers like to jam into a GT's route. These days it seems to be gravel is on the menu. Meanwhile Remco Evenepoel is probably lying in bed dreaming he was racing in the 1990's.