Giro d'Italia Giro D'Italia 2025 Stage 9: Gubbio – Siena (181km)

[Rackham]

How many time did Roglic crash in a GT? I don't even know and this is always happening with Roglic, maybe it isn't just bad luck. Last year he was completely cooked in the gravel stage too mainly because he was badly positioned. Of course his puncture was bad luck but his crash I don't believe it is just bad luck and we can't blame the surface, this is the first time he crashes on another terrain (even his crash in the Tour 2022 was on tarmac and not on cobbles).

I mean Lucas Hamilton literally went down and everyone well positioned at the front of the group went down as well - including Ayuso. Rog then had gear shifting problems and a puncture as well.

It's like, just a little perspective & looking at what actually happened can go a long way here without trying to reach for evidence that fits a stereotype or narrative.

 

[Lequack]

This stage was tailor made to make Roglic crash, and they succeeded.

 

[Gratemans]

That's two days in a row that were thoroughly entertaining btw.
Must have been a couple years ago I last experienced that in a Giro.

 

[Boehmand]

Pedersen getting 2nd in RVV is a happy accident. The moment he was with Van der Poel and Pogacar and he was taking turns before getting dropped like a stone on the next hill shows everything he's done wrong very consistently.

I am not high, but maybe I need to be piss drunk to lower my level of cycling analysis to that of the average cycling DS.

Your memory is slipping.

Stuyven brought him back to the front, and Pedersen took almost no pulls when they got there - because WvA attacked just 5K after they made the front group and was brought back by MvdP and Pogacar - and then they were on the climb.

You are grasping at straws dude.

Trek got 7, 2, 3 and 2 in the 4 monuments thus far this year, and the only place I can find a slight tactical mistake, is in M-SR, because it arguably cost Pedersen taking 4th instead of 7th in the 2nd group to the line, that he burned himself out trying to make the front.

But Pedersen is not the kind of rider who rides for positions outside the podium, he doesn't care if he is 4th or 7th - and the fact remains Trek is arguably the 3rd best monuments team this season, and by far the best team without mutants.

UAE has 2 wins and 2 podiums
Alpecin has 2 wins and 1 podium
Lidl has 0 wins and 3 podiums
Ineos and EF have 0 wins and 1 podium

 

[Peyroteo94]

I mean Lucas Hamilton literally went down and everyone well positioned at the front of the group went down as well - including Ayuso. Rog then had gear shifting problems and a puncture as well.

It's like, just a little perspective & looking at what actually happened can go a long way here without trying to reach for evidence that fits a stereotype or narrative.

My rational side agrees with you and @red_flanders but it's always with Roglic. I also think (for example) his crash in the 2022 Tour was just bad luck but again, it's always with him so there is other side of me that shows Roglic is a bit naive/unfocused in these situations.

 

[Boehmand]

Back in my day eh (basically when I was a little kid watching this stuff on tv, at least what was available to watch on tv) Big Mig Indurain won because he demolished everyone in ITT's that were way, way longer than whatever we get nowadays.

So it's all relative to whatever era a rider races in and whatever "flavor of the month" these race organisers like to jam into a GT's route. These days it seems to be gravel is on the menu. Meanwhile Remco Evenepoel is probably lying in bed dreaming he was racing in the 1990's.

Indurain was the most boring rider in the history of cycling.

A really nice guy that you couldn't help having sympathy for, but God was his riding style boring.

I don't remember seeing him ever attack, except for ONCE where he was annoyed by a break he didn't like, so he rode himself to the front and made them slow down and get caught

I also never remember him standing up on the bycicle, he was forever in the seated position.

He just sat there, stage after stage maintaining his diesel engine, and then demolished everyone on the FAR too long TTs.

The most boring 5 years in Tour history.

 

[AmRacer]

Many times. I'm talking about today. He didn't crash today because he's not an all-rounder. He got taken out.

But yes, he's VERY often been the source of his own demise. But to make that comment after what happened today seems a bit off.

How many times has he been taken out?

 

[red_flanders]

My rational side agrees with you and @red_flanders but it's always with Roglic. I also think (for example) his crash in the 2022 Tour was just bad luck but again, it's always with him so there is other side of me that shows Roglic is a bit naive/unfocused in these situations.

Not unreasonable. I think Roglic's overall strategy is that of a very a calculating rider, which means he will err on the side of sitting back, staying out of the wind, conserving his power and resources, and then attacking at very opportune times for wins and bonuses. Quite effective, obviously. But it does maybe put him in danger more often than riders who go out front more often, he's at the mercy of the skill (or lack therof) of the riders he's using to shield him from the wind.

How many times has he been taken out?

A few, couldn't really say. Why?

 

[noob]

Btw, I was the first one to mention Del Toro on this forum (during and after the 2023 Tour of Sibiu), so where is my contract as a talent scout for a WT team? If LR can get payed by a big WT team the bar seems to be low enough...

Tell us when your podcast starts

 

[Rackham]

Indurain was the most boring rider in the history of cycling.

A really nice guy that you couldn't help having sympathy for, but God was his riding style boring.

I don't remember seeing him ever attack, except for ONCE where he was annoyed by a break he didn't like, so he rode himself to the front and made them slow down and get caught

I also never remember him standing up on the bycicle, he was forever in the seated position.

He just sat there, stage after stage maintaining his diesel engine, and then demolished everyone on the FAR too long TTs.

The most boring 5 years in Tour history.

Don't hate on the Big Mig my man.

I'd say all things being equal if Pogi had been racing in the early 1990's on those particular TdF profiles then Indurain would have been a serious thorn in his side because of the ITT's.

My point is with regards to "the best all rounder must win". It's not entirely true, especially with regards to all round surface mastery. In Indurain's case his time trial was so outrageously amazing he'd demolish anyone on a route tailor made for his specific qualities.

My rational side agrees with you and @red_flanders but it's always with Roglic. I also think (for example) his crash in the 2022 Tour was just bad luck but again, it's always with him so there is other side of me that shows Roglic is a bit naive/unfocused in these situations.

As I was watching I knew it was going wrong the moment he found himself alone in the front group on the first gravel sector. I literally called it here in this thread minutes before it happened when I quoted Obi Wan Kenobi's "I have a bad feeling about this".

Why? Because he had to manoeuvre himself through the group and position himself on his own. He's got a lower aero position and he's lightweight so once again he gets taken out when someone else makes a mistake. The same happened in the 2022 TdF by the way. When the infamous hay bale happened he was left with only Laporte in the front group. When Caleb Ewan hit the deck, Rog flew right over the top.

It's not so much anything to do with handling or whatnot it's just a specificity of who and what he is as a rider. A punchy lightweight climber always in the thick of the action, so what happens, happens. It happens to lots of others as well but people don't have a fixation like they do on Rog.

That's my reasonable and rational take on Rog's crash history.

 

[Cycling111]

My rational side agrees with you and @red_flanders but it's always with Roglic. I also think (for example) his crash in the 2022 Tour was just bad luck but again, it's always with him so there is other side of me that shows Roglic is a bit naive/unfocused in these situations.

Agree.

An accidentes or punctures can be bad luck, but they're also due to the way you ride.

Van der Poel´s had less punctures than other riders in Paris-Roubaix these years. It's not because he's lucky, it's because he's better.
He hasn't had a puncture in Paris-Roubaix for a long time; this year yes. He didn't have one last year, when he won comfortably; this year someone was pushing him. Simple coincidence?

Many incidents can be bad luck, but when someone has them all the time, and another rider has them rarely, it's for a reason.

Rogic looked uncomfortable from the start. He had more chances of getting a puncture riding like this than Pidcock, and Pidcock crashed today, but after spending three years in this race without doing so, Roglic, 1/1. He only finished one Tour since 2020 due to accidents....

The importance of positioning. It's as obvious as if you go first you won't crash because someone has an accident in front of you.
I thought Pidcock would attack earlier for that reason. The smaller the group, the less risk of accidents.

 

[Red Rick]

Best stage of this Giro so far, once again showing that gravel belongs in Grand Tours.

All the gaps were because of random Ineos extra #4 crashes out half the GT field.

"Belongs in Grand Tours" my glutes.

 

[ashhutch1997]

What a stage!
I'm shocked about the amount stick WVA is getting on here, he rode a perfect race. Why would he help a rival of his team mate, makes absolutely no sense,he's s also won plenty of races with panache, and has lost races due to working too hard, he's not Rui Costa... Del Toro literally said after the race that WVA working with him made no sense, and he expected him to not ride.
I for one am happy for WVA, he's had a horrible last 14 months.
Like other posts, this stage shows that gravel stages belong in GT's, it's called road cycling, not tarmac cycling.

 

[Rackham]

Like other posts, this stage shows that gravel stages belong in GT's, it's called road cycling, not tarmac cycling.

Tarmac has been associated with roads in most parts of western Europe since internal combustion engine vehicles became more popular than mules and donkeys for transportation.

Just saying.

 

[Boehmand]

Don't hate on the Big Mig my man.

I'd say all things being equal if Pogi had been racing in the early 1990's on those particular TdF profiles then Indurain would have been a serious thorn in his side because of the ITT's.

Let's not overstate facts.

Yes Indurain was an awesome TT rider, but he still had TTs in the Tour where he only beat guys like Bugno, Rominger or Riis by 30-40 seconds... and none of those guys would be able to hold a candle to Pogacar in a TT today.

I think Indurain would be a thorn in Pogacar's side, the same way Evenepoel in a thorn in his side... albeit without all the flair of Evenepoel and thus much more one-dimensional.

Sure Indurain might make the podium against Pogacar, but he is still getting beat by 8-10 minutes at the end

 

[titan31]

I think we're lucky we didn't lose anyone properly in a crash today. For everyone going this was entertaining, what would the reaction have been had Roglic crashed hard and was out of the race.

We'd just have two weeks of which UAE rider is winning. One stage of entertainment wouldn't be worth that

 

[red_flanders]

As I was watching I knew it was going wrong the moment he found himself alone in the front group on the first gravel sector. I literally called it here in this thread minutes before it happened when I quoted Obi Wan Kenobi's "I have a bad feeling about this".

I feel like it's critical to point out that this was Han Solo. You're welcome.

 

[Boehmand]

Tarmac has been associated with roads in most parts of western Europe since internal combustion engine vehicles became more popular than mules and donkeys for transportation.

Just saying.

Also - it doesn't really matter what it is called, it matters how the particular route affects the race.

Lots of places are called a "road" - without being viable for a Grand Tour route.

 

[red_flanders]

I think we're lucky we didn't lose anyone properly in a crash today. For everyone going this was entertaining, what would the reaction have been had Roglic crashed hard and was out of the race.

We'd just have two weeks of which UAE rider is winning. One stage of entertainment wouldn't be worth that

Same as it would have been on any stage. Unfortunate loss of the big favorite for the race.

 

[RedheadDane]

I feel like it's critical to point out that this was Han Solo. You're welcome.

Don't they all say it at some point?
Even Chewie and R2.

 

[Netserk]

Tarmac has been associated with roads in most parts of western Europe since internal combustion engine vehicles became more popular than mules and donkeys for transportation.

Just saying.

Riders are more like donkeys than ICE vehicles.

 

[vladimir]

Indurain was the most boring rider in the history of cycling.

A really nice guy that you couldn't help having sympathy for, but God was his riding style boring.

I don't remember seeing him ever attack, except for ONCE where he was annoyed by a break he didn't like, so he rode himself to the front and made them slow down and get caught

I also never remember him standing up on the bycicle, he was forever in the seated position.

He just sat there, stage after stage maintaining his diesel engine, and then demolished everyone on the FAR too long TTs.

The most boring 5 years in Tour history.

Ahhh, you must have forgotten this stage?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqVZZcvhlXM

 

[Boehmand]

Ahhh, you must have forgotten this stage?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqVZZcvhlXM

Sure, but you should note you can find a single example of a stage he attacked - and he didn't win it

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I'd missed it at first so went back, I think same time as Roglic, he just got straight back up look on the right hand side, he's blocked by the trees a bit.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1924105237851152788

Yeah I totally missed that Ayuso was impacted. I’m not sure he actually went down. Maybe he stepped off and his casette, or someone else’s, caught his calf?

Watching this again, Roglic never should have been gapped. He started riding right after Bernal and Ayuso but didn’t seem to take off with any urgency, to be honest. Was his bike not working from the get go?

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Oh nononononononononoo!!!! Primož Roglic is in crisis at the giro ditalia!!!!!!!!

Far from my worst prediction to be honest.