Giro d'Italia Stage 11: Lucera - L'Aquila (262km)

[The Sheep]

This sort of trolling of Evans fans is okay, of course.

Really intelligent remarks there, BroDeal.

I mean, I don't mind it, but the hypocrisy of the way you then cry to teacher about me....

So someone else being an idiot excuses you to be an idiot, stop pointing fingers at other people every time you get called out for your inane remarks.

 

[Mellow Velo]

There are always crashes. You don't often see the GC guys effected so much though.

Why are you still here?
Don't you know that you race is on?
Go and watch the RAIN.
Never realised May in California was just like it is in February.
They are bombing along at 32kph..........

 

[Eyjafjallajokull]

Why are you still here?
Don't you know that you race is on?
Go and watch the RAIN.
Never realised May in California was just like it is in February.
They are bombing along at 32kph..........

Watching now, thanks. That's a climb they are on so the speed is down.

80k is a lot to watch so I may come back to it.

 

[Von Mises]

Five minutes going into the mountains can be a HUGE advantage, especially to a Tour winning climber like Sastre as they head into the mountains. He was 4th after all last year, a mere 3:46 back . Arroyo was 11th, 12 minutes back, and will be highly motivated with his 8+ minute lead over Vinokourov.

Last year during first two weeks every time when there was small uphill finish or smth similar, Arroyo was loosing 10-15 seconds to leaders.

Then came long TT, Arroyo lost 4.40 to Menchov, 3.40 to Garzelli, 2.20 to Basso and Sastre.

Monte Petrano. Arroyo lost 2.51 to Sastre, 2 minutes to Basso and Menchov.

Blockhaus. 3.18 to Pelizotti, 2.30 to Mencho, 2 minutes to Basso.

Vesuvio. 1.15 to Sastre.

And final 14 k TT. Arroyo lost 1.16 to Konovalovas, 30 secs to Basso.

Lack of long TT helps Arroy, but still, I think that this years Giro is harder and it will be very hard for him.

 

[taiwan]

The blame game.

Basso admits they fd up tactically, Liquigas DS plumps for blaming Astana.

Vino:"Wasn't only my problem, Liquigas stood to lose more. " (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm Google translating)

Don't know what Evans is saying, but if Basso's giving the straight answer, that'll do.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Good detective work Von. I still think if he can get that jersey on his back it could elevate his motivation, as it has others in the past.

Still, my initial post (today) was that he could end up on the podium, and I think he could.

Are you really a moderator?

Perhaps you'd like to volunteer, that way you too can sift through the dozens and dozens of reported posts and complaints about the guy too.

 

[Galic Ho]

I prefer the days when one team would ride on the front in a Grand Tour. Much more exciting.

I'd never have guessed with you Hog.

Got to agree to a degree as it puts rubbish like today's stage into extinction. No team can do what UPS did anymore. Maybe last years Astana but that was it. Even then they let others work. You have to pick your battles and go for it. Seems the breakaway pulled that one off today.

 

[thehog]

Great write up from EuroSport:

As far as ideas go, it's about as good as buying a pair of non-refundable British Airways return tickets to Bangkok (via Reykjavik), packing only a collection of red shirts and using your projected winnings from that bet on Cesc Fabregas being top scorer at Arsenal next season.
It was, in the ever eloquent words of Greg Henderson, a "monumental **** up by the maglia rosa" to allow 56 – yes, 56! - riders clear after just 20km of the longest stage in this year's Giro.

What were Vinokourov and Astana thinking? With the rain lashing down pretty much all day, the washed-up peloton were soon despairingly chasing shadows.

Calling the pink jersey group the peloton is actually doing the word a disservice. There were probably more men up in front than alongside Vino. In fact, the leaders were more numerous than a pack of cards. Fittingly, the jokers had been left behind.

If ever there was a real need for motorised doping, it was within the bike frames of Messrs Vinokourov, Evans, Basso and Nibali - for the net result was cycling's equivalent of the devastating earthquake that ravaged Wednesday's finish town of L'Aquila last year.

The GC was turned on its head. The last time something like this happened, Oscar Pereiro won the Tour de France. Bradley Wiggins and Carlos Sastre, so underwhelming for the first 10 days (except the Brit's prologue scalp), are now right back in it.

A rookie called Richie has upgraded his white jersey for pink. Before stage 11, the only chance of that happening would have been if he'd put a red sock in his post-race jersey wash.

Vino, now more than 10 minutes down on Saxo's Porte, tried to remain upbeat, stressing there was still 10 more days left to run. But deep down, the Kazakh will know he could well have blown his chance of overall victory.

"People said Sastre was done after the Terminillo - that's not the case," Vino deadpanned. Correction: Sastre was done - but you guys somehow contrived to bring his crumbled body back to life.

Gosh - Saddles has to say it - but what will the world come to if a rider as average as Sastre plunders not one, but two Grand Tour wins?

Cadel Evans, who only gets angry when fatties stand on his dog, took it on the chin while, typically, washing away all responsibility of his role in the disaster: "Race leader leaves 56 in the break. Not normal, but neither is this race!"

A tad disingenuous from the Australian, but then again, without any team-mates he can hardly be expected to lead a counter-attack single-handedly.

Spoils for the day went to Russia's Evgeni Petrov of Katusha, who became the sixth rider to have picked up a maiden Grand Tour stage win on this year's extraordinary race.

The upcoming mountain stages are going to be a pleasure to watch - no one can afford to sit back and watch anymore.

QUOTE OF THE DAY: "Hands down, without a doubt the most miserable day ever experienced on a bike." BMC's Brent Bookwalter should spare a thought for his team leader.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Screw Sastre. It's Arroyo. How do they get ten minutes back from him.

easy, with these climbs that is far from impossible.

He seems to be a lovely bloke. His interview when he won the Romandie ITT was charmingly naive, in the nicest sense.
Get behind him and wait for the monster mountains that will bring Cadel back into the frame.

This race is far, far from over. Remember, this isn't the Tour, so anything can still happen.

+1

I am getting behind my aussie boys! Yell for CAdel! You can still win it. But you NEED to ATTACK and throw cautiuon to the win. If he won this thing it would be epic.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Things to think about:

1 Sastre isn't in such a bad shape. He mainly lost time because of crashes and bad luck. On the Terminillo he was still suffering from the crashes the day before.
2 The teams Astana and BMC aren't strong enough to control the race.
3 Liquigas didn't have to work. They had Kiserlovski and Agnoli in the leading group.
4 Richie Porte only lost 26 seconds to Vinokourov on the Terminillo, and he's a good time trialist.

 

[thehog]

I'd never have guessed with you Hog.

Got to agree to a degree as it puts rubbish like today's stage into extinction. No team can do what UPS did anymore. Maybe last years Astana but that was it. Even then they let others work. You have to pick your battles and go for it. Seems the breakaway pulled that one off today.

I do jest but what we're seeing in the Giro was what racing was like 30 years ago. During the 80's this was the norm and Grand Tour's were littered with these sort of days. USPS were the main offender but there were other teams but too many people were conditioned that controlling Grand Tour's was the norm and not the exception. Less doping means much much much better racing.

 

[thehog]

2 The teams Astana and BMC aren't strong enough to control the race.
.

Stop this s_it. No team should ever be strong enogh to control a race. Period. Stop expecting it.

 

[Walkman]

I think it is safe to say that we are in for some bad *** racing as the Giro goes on!! I mean, the Giro has been insane up until today but I think it will be raised to another level in the stages to come!

 

[icefire]

From biciclismo, translated by google:

Vinokourov: 'Basso and Nibali are the big losers'

Interview with Alexandre Vinokourov (Astana)

What happened today?
The escape is gone and no one moved among the favorites. It was too cold and raining too much to take risks. It was a very tough again. Of course, in this condition, the body responds less, but today there have been those who have not taken their responsibilities. They may have regrets.

Why did not you answer?
I felt that nobody wanted to pursue and I was not who had to give even more. I got the pink jersey for five days, but others like Basso, Nibali are more likely than me to win the Giro. Therefore, I did not want to work for them. Nobody thought we would win long break. At first we threw together with Acqua Sapone and BMC until we said "Enough, The others have to work!". The Liquigas too has realized that he could still get hurt in the standings. Too bad for them if Sastre, Arroyo, Tondo been repositioned in general.

What can change for you loss Gasparotto, and Dyachenko Iglinskiy who left the Giro today?
Of course, there is no good news, but today we saw that the group was very tired. I think there are already many dropouts and lost time. Therefore, we are not alone in this situation. It does not prevent me from fighting to Verona to preserve a chance to get on the podium as I said at the start of the Giro. For Italian favorites such as Basso, Nibali must show they are there to win the Giro. In fact they are the big losers. For me, I've shown from the beginning that I got back to a good level and that's what I wanted.

Source: Press Astana

Original in Spanish is here

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Completely agree Auscyle92. Cadel needs to throw all caution to the wind and go for it! It's his only hope, and this race isn't over yet.

You are right Hog, about racing 30 years ago, and less doped riders. Now, if we could only eliminate race radios as well.

Great link to the Eurosport commentary.

 

[Galic Ho]

I’ve probably posted this 20 times. I have to wonder if the people that repeat this over and over even watched the 2006 Tour?

Oscar Periero did NOT gain some 29 minutes in one stage that Floyd and others slowly chipped away at, as implied in statements like that. He lost some 28 minutes on one stage, and gained on a stage 29 soon after, putting him some 1:40 up on Landis midway through the race.

Chill dude. You admit I was right with your language. He gained 29 minutes. Sure, I did not mention he was down 28', but I didn't need to. That was common knowledge. Did you think I was stating he was 29' ahead? Nobody is that stupid. He gained 29' in one stage to make up for his already massive deficit. I don't need to state that or remind people, because as you implied, it is common knowledge. You distorted my language. No problem there, happens to everyone.

Five minutes going into the mountains can be a HUGE advantage, especially to a Tour winning climber like Sastre as they head into the mountains. He was 4th after all last year, a mere 3:46 back . Arroyo was 11th, 12 minutes back, and will be highly motivated with his 8+ minute lead over Vinokourov.

He was my pick to win ahead of Evans. Miracle but his injuries are still an unknown. Look at the analysis Von Mises gave. But Vino and Evans are within those 4 minutes back and are not carrying injuries. Weaker team, yes, but still strong.

Arroyo is not rated at the start of a GT for a reason. He is going to lose most of that time. Evans and Vino should pull him back. Think of it this way. At the start of the stage, Arroyo was looking like he'd finish the race 20' back on GC. In other words, he was going to lose about another 10-12 minutes later on. Now with 8 minutes up his sleave, he has a chance of the podium if he is lucky. Definitely a top 10, but if history follows it's course he will lose most of the time he gained. He might beat Cunego, Nibali or Scarponi but not all the GC guys who lost out. They won't let him. Sastre is too much of an unknown. Injuries and form? 4 minutes to Cadel and 2:30 to Vino. He can lose it. It will come down to recovery.

Liquigas are the biggest losers. Their DS attitude is the whole reason I have always thought they as a team pose no threat in something like the TdF. They don't wan't to work. Excuses, excuses. They needed to help today. They let the most dangerous climber in the Giro back into the fight and dropped 5'30' to him with their two strongest riders. Kiserslovski or whatever his name is as their GC guy! Basso knows they stuffed up. He knows how strong his team mate is and knows what Sastre can do. Hence he admitted they stuffed up. Liquigas need to make a big move sometime and burn everyone off to get Basso up as far as they can. By everyone I mean, everyone except Evans, Vino, Scarponi and Cunego. Basso is the only chance they have for a podium spot.

A couple of no names and one somewhat decent GC performer get some time and people start proclaiming they can win. I won't. It will be Sastre or Evans. Though I am hoping Evans does not revert back to his old self after today. That would be horrible.

 

[killswitch]

He was my pick to win ahead of Evans. Miracle but his injuries are still an unknown.

From the CN article:
Sastre's legs were still full of bruises when he approached the Terminillo. He really struggled on that climb but got better during the two days in the south of Italy.

"I didn't throw the towel and that was worth it," Sastre said. However, he didn't want to express his ambitions for the overall classification too soon. "To be honest, I'm just happy to be back in the race and to be feeling in such good shape now."

 

[Galic Ho]

I do jest but what we're seeing in the Giro was what racing was like 30 years ago. During the 80's this was the norm and Grand Tour's were littered with these sort of days. USPS were the main offender but there were other teams but too many people were conditioned that controlling Grand Tour's was the norm and not the exception. Less doping means much much much better racing.

True. Less doping means more racing like the 80s. Though the top guys then Lemond, Hinault and Fignon all managed to put tons of time into their opponents. Some GTs in the 80s had absolutely one sided time sheets for the top 3. Hinault put 20 minutes into third place on GC one year.

Which brings me to the rubbish Liquigas DS is sprouting. Astana should not have been expected to pull the break in alone. All the top teams need to work evenly, get their men to the big climbs and let them go for it. Decide the race there. Nobody is strong enough to protect 100% of the time. Ironically the biggest losers are Liquigas. They cannot win anymore barring desertions.

 

[Walkman]

It's funny when Liquigas DS said that "we don't want to be domestiques for Vino and Evans" and insted they throw away "sure" spot on the podium! I mean, how stupid can you be?! I would do a better job as Liquigas DS tha the current one. I used to like Liquigas for some reason, but I don't anymore. Blaming Astana for this when they didn't do anyting themselves?

The whole situation is absolutely ridiculous and can only be described as one of biggest ****-ups ever!! Sure Evans team isn't the best but heck, what about the other teams? Damiano Cunego, Stefano Garzelli, Michele Scarponi, Vincenzo Nibali and Ivan Basso, what were you thinking?!
"Hmm, well Cadel and Vino are here so it's probably ok to give the break 20 minutes" "Yeah, let's do that, it seems like a good idea".

Why didn't the teams in the MR-groupe cooperated more?

 

[Galic Ho]

It's funny when Liquigas DS said that "we don't want to be domestiques for Vino and Evans" and insted they throw away "sure" spot on the podium! I mean, how stupid can you be?! I would do a better job as Liquigas DS tha the current one. I used to like Liquigas for some reason, but I don't anymore. Blaming Astana for this when they didn't do anyting themselves?

The whole situation is absolutely ridiculous and can only be described as one of biggest ****-ups ever!! Sure Evans team isn't the best but heck, what about the other teams? Damiano Cunego, Stefano Garzelli, Michele Scarponi, Vincenzo Nibali and Ivan Basso, what were you thinking?!
"Hmm, well Cadel and Vino are here so it's probably ok to give the break 20 minutes" "Yeah, let's do that, it seems like a good idea".

Why didn't the teams in the MR-groupe cooperated more?

Agreed. The Liquigas DS is a goose. Basso admits they stuffed up. Basso has a brain in his skull and knows how strong (weak is a better choice) Kiserslovski is. This is the type of thing that will see a rider like Nibali leave the team and walk over to a nice fat contract at Sky. Liquigas shot themselves in the foot today more than any other team. Catching Sastre will be hard. But then they have to also pass Vino and Evans. Biggest d!c* move of the day by their DS. Elitist and arrogant attitude. Share the load or you all lose out.

 

[Frosty]

I think one of the problems is that the other teams may well have underestimated the weakness of the Astana and BMC teams today - 3 Astanas and 2 BMCs didnt finish, the Astanas were down to a stomach bug apparently which may or may not have been known/believed. Liquigas probably went down the standard tactic of trying to defend by attacking. Get someone high up on GC into the break and then you dont have to chase. Let the other GC contenders wear their teams out chasing. If the other teams had been up for chasing then this would have worked well but the other teams couldnt chase as much as expected. Liquigas seemed to be a bit slow on the uptake. I have read some reports where people indicate some teams didnt chase at first because they didnt know who was in the lead group. There were 60 riders there - did they think they were all a bunch of no-hopers? Plus i think just about all teams were represented - couldnt there man in the break have done a bit of detective work?

 

[Frosty]

Agreed. The Liquigas DS is a goose. Basso admits they stuffed up. Basso has a brain in his skull and knows how strong (weak is a better choice) Kiserslovski is. This is the type of thing that will see a rider like Nibali leave the team and walk over to a nice fat contract at Sky.

As far as Kiserslovski is concerned his high placing could still be of use as long as he didnt drop down too quickly. Other teams may see him as a bit of an unknown quantity and if he attacks on a mountain stage then they may have to respond. If he quickly drops down the order though then the places he has gained will be of little use.

 

[Oldman]

Agreed. The Liquigas DS is a goose. Basso admits they stuffed up. Basso has a brain in his skull and knows how strong (weak is a better choice) Kiserslovski is. This is the type of thing that will see a rider like Nibali leave the team and walk over to a nice fat contract at Sky. Liquigas shot themselves in the foot today more than any other team. Catching Sastre will be hard. But then they have to also pass Vino and Evans. Biggest d!c* move of the day by their DS. Elitist and arrogant attitude. Share the load or you all lose out.

Add to that the fact some teams had big numbers up the road that got down to business as a group. Realistically the DS has to say that. His own guys may not have been all that capable so, unless the DS's with the most to lose arrange to cooperate during the stage; this is the result. Basso's not going to do it alone.

 

[Frosty]

With such big numbers up front how did all the pre-stage top GC guys manage to miss it? At least some of them must have been near the front so you'd have thought someone would try to tag on - 56 other guys made it!

 

[Escarabajo]

Look at the time gaps in the stages. Now look at the weather conditions. This Giro has been a complete carnage. DNF's are starting to pick up. Having said that, I would not worry too much about the time gaps among the favorites. I just need to look at the stages ahead and conclude that any rider can loose >10 minutes in just a single stage. So who knows who will win..

Very nice Giro.