Giro d'Italia Stage 11: Lucera - L'Aquila (262km)

[Galic Ho]

Add to that the fact some teams had big numbers up the road that got down to business as a group. Realistically the DS has to say that. His own guys may not have been all that capable so, unless the DS's with the most to lose arrange to cooperate during the stage; this is the result. Basso's not going to do it alone.

True, Basso cannot do it alone but Liquigas were the first in media reports to point the finger. Vino has to, but his tone was not as harsh. Vino confirmed what I said and stated Nibali and Basso are now worst off of all the GC aspirants. Maybe the DS is have a go over the 'not waiting' incident on stage 7.

But in the defense of Liquigas, had they told the guys in the break to sit up, someone would have found the words to critique that. But that isn't the issue. Back your strongest horse. That is Basso, maybe Nibali. At least their team mates in California, Sagan and Chicchi are delivering.

 

[thehog]

It's funny when Liquigas DS said that "we don't want to be domestiques for Vino and Evans" and insted they throw away "sure" spot on the podium! I mean, how stupid can you be?! I would do a better job as Liquigas DS tha the current one. I used to like Liquigas for some reason, but I don't anymore. Blaming Astana for this when they didn't do anyting themselves?

The whole situation is absolutely ridiculous and can only be described as one of biggest ****-ups ever!! Sure Evans team isn't the best but heck, what about the other teams? Damiano Cunego, Stefano Garzelli, Michele Scarponi, Vincenzo Nibali and Ivan Basso, what were you thinking?!
"Hmm, well Cadel and Vino are here so it's probably ok to give the break 20 minutes" "Yeah, let's do that, it seems like a good idea".

Why didn't the teams in the MR-groupe cooperated more?

Disgaree. Its not ridiculous. Its good. This is what racing needs to be.

What was evident today was a lot of riders were riding and waiting for an order. In the Fignon days he would have attacked the chase group brought 10 with him and tracked down the lead group. No one was willing to do that today. They all waited for the DS to tell them what to do.

Great racing.

More please.

 

[Von Mises]

I have read some reports where people indicate some teams didnt chase at first because they didnt know who was in the lead group. There were 60 riders there - did they think they were all a bunch of no-hopers? Plus i think just about all teams were represented - couldnt there man in the break have done a bit of detective work?

I read also this, that peloton did not know for a long time who were riders in the first group, as well as they did not know time gap.

 

[tgsgirl]

I read also this, that peloton did not know for a long time who were riders in the first group, as well as they did not know time gap.

Every team had at least one guy there. Really, all of them. How hard is it to ask "hi, Josep. Is there anyone up there with you who we should be afraid of? No? So, no Sastre then? Alright, thanks!".

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Looking forward. I don't see much anything happening tomorrow, but you never know, the attacks have been so frequent and blistering. The weather should get better, though we could still see some showers:

Accuweather Forecast.

I'm thinking on lucky stage 13, Cadel, Vino, Nibali or Basso need to launch the attack of their life at Perticara, 161km in on this profile here. It's not enough to drop everyone, but a well time attack could split the peloton into groups and drop someone enough to get some time back.

This day is before Monte Grappa. But I think attacks will be expected then, and it's more like a stage to not lose time, than gain it, as the huge descent and runout allows regrouping time.

Stage 15 is up Zoncolan.

 

[Jamsque]

I rode the Nove Colli last year, I know those climbs. The Barbotto is much harder than the Perticara, it has one really steep kilometre where someone could easily get a gap with a strong attack.

 

[thehog]

I rode the Nove Colli last year, I know those climbs. The Barbotto is much harder than the Perticara, it has one really steep kilometre where someone could easily get a gap with a strong attack.

I was there as well. Did you do the full 210km?

Stinking hot day.

 

[Jamsque]

Hot ain't even it. It was roasting.

I have to admit I did not do the full route, it was (and still is) only the second sportive I have ever done. I actually just checked and realised the route isn't what I thought (different order of climbs) and I did not go up the Perticara.

Still, my point about the Barbotto being steep stands.

 

[Night Rider]

What a balls up by Astana, Liquigas and BMC. No other words for it, just bad, bad, bad. Lots of finger pointing and it looks like Basso is the only one man enough to admit 'we f***ed up'.

Down to Cadel or Sastre now ftw.

 

[thehog]

Hot ain't even it. It was roasting.

I have to admit I did not do the full route, it was (and still is) only the second sportive I have ever done. I actually just checked and realised the route isn't what I thought (different order of climbs) and I did not go up the Perticara.

Still, my point about the Barbotto being steep stands.

Got it. Great days riding and the scenery was amazing. The food stops were something else - Pasta and cold espresso was a nice touch.

 

[eljimberino]

What a balls up by Astana, Liquigas and BMC. No other words for it, just bad, bad, bad. Lots of finger pointing and it looks like Basso is the only one man enough to admit 'we f***ed up'.

Yes, it was a stage many would like to see swept under the karpet.

 

[Bala Verde]

Strongest team in the Giro v. team with the Maglia Rosa stand off...

Kazakh bluff v Italian bluff.

Evans the biggest loser?

 

[Night Rider]

Evans the biggest loser?

I don't think so, I think Basso and Vino lost more. Vino has as much admitted that Evans will be stronger over the rest of the race. What's left to decide is whether Sastre's form is as bad as what it looked in the first 9 days or how quickly his form comes back.

 

[blaxland]

Yes it does. How strong are Cervelo? How strong are Caisse? Now they can get the focus. Caisse will crack with their lineup. They will last the best bit of a day or two. Saxo will also blow apart. Caisse and Saxo left the big boys at home or sent them to California. What happens to Porte and Arroyo when their teams crack? They crack. Apply pressure. Enter Vino and Evans. Liquigas, Lampre and Acqua & Sapone can join the fray also. This will be a blood bath.

Give it 6 days and this will all be reversed.

+1 Agree....I think this post is spot on correct....the main GC guys will get back time in the mountains/ITT.

 

[Cervelo77]

Evan's blog post on the stage:

Wet cold and very long day here. 269km on the bike is...pretty tough on your rear end.

As a first, well since I have been racing as a professional, the race leader let an enormous group of 56 riders go. You never thought you would see all of the GC favourites swapping off together in a race? We did it for 50km today, and they still took 12 minutes...

Each day of this year’s Giro, my definition of 'normal' was broadening, I don't think it is worth using the word anymore at...."

So yeah, they waited for Vino's Astana boys to chase. I tend to think that Vino doesn't think he can win this with the high mountain stages to come, and so he didn't see a point in sacrificing his men. Also, I don't think a single team pulling could bring back a break with 50+ riders; there are just too many fresh legs in such a large break.

I completely wrote off Sastre after he dropped so much time in the first 10 stages. Resurrection is the only appropriate word. Will be interesting to see what happens on the Zoncolan. Surely if you're a rider way behind now and you have the legs, and Sastre or Tondo show any weakness, you've got to stick it to them if possible.

 

[luckyboy]

Wow, this stage was totally weird and also amazing

Finally back home and able to watch the Giro again now - good stage to start! Looks like Sastre has some hope after all..

 

[Ferminal]

I agree whole heartedly, the Giro has been much more entertaining.

Maybe the ASO bought into the Tour of California as a defensive move.
Start attracting the TdF DangerMen over to California during May....

TdF "DangerMen" who are riding the ToC, don't want to race - it doesn't matter where you show up if you're not racing (from a fans perspective, not necessarily commercial)

Unless you consider DZ, Rogers and one of Lance's SuperDoms TdF DangerMen.

As a first, well since I have been racing as a professional, the race leader let an enormous group of 56 riders go. You never thought you would see all of the GC favourites swapping off together in a race? We did it for 50km today, and they still took 12 minutes...

I thought it was a nice touch, Vino, Evans, Garzelli, Scarponi, Basso, Nibali, Cunego all riding turns, it only took them 200km after their c0ck up.

 

[rata de sentina]

No team can do what UPS did anymore. Maybe last years Astana but that was it. Even then they let others work. You have to pick your battles and go for it. Seems the breakaway pulled that one off today.

Mmm... I wonder why that is? All the domestiques seem very 'brittle' these days

 

[kurtinsc]

Evan's blog post on the stage:



So yeah, they waited for Vino's Astana boys to chase. I tend to think that Vino doesn't think he can win this with the high mountain stages to come, and so he didn't see a point in sacrificing his men. Also, I don't think a single team pulling could bring back a break with 50+ riders; there are just too many fresh legs in such a large break.

I completely wrote off Sastre after he dropped so much time in the first 10 stages. Resurrection is the only appropriate word. Will be interesting to see what happens on the Zoncolan. Surely if you're a rider way behind now and you have the legs, and Sastre or Tondo show any weakness, you've got to stick it to them if possible.

I don't think a single team could pull back the break... but perhaps they could have neutralized it at some point.

If Astana pulled a bit to keep the break around 10 minutes, then when other teams pitched in it could have been cut down to 5 minutes. When the teams finally did get off their butts they were able to pull 5 minutes back from the max gap.

 

[rata de sentina]

I don't understand why people are getting so angsty. This is all highly amusing and entertaining. Now the GC guys are going to be the hunters and all those rabbits in front of them are the prey. Should be fun as there is plenty of racing to go. As long as they don't all panic like some of the forumites and try and get it back tomorrow.

As for the blame I think it is probably a combination of circumstances and poor judgement. The initial break seems to have occurred largely as a result of circumstances and the failure to chase seriously is a combination of both.

To be fair both Astana and BMC were depleted by illness (some kind of gastro bug) and didn't have the firepower. Liquigas were the only team with the firepower and elected not to use it. They had guys in the break who could have dropped back but they didn't use that option.

To all the Evans fans: I don't see him whining about his team so why don't you STFU about it. He joined BMC with his eyes wide open and I'm sure he is under no illusions about their capabilities relative to some of the other teams. So far he is going much better at BMC and I'm sure he is looking forward to 2011 when they'll probably be a bit better. They have an excellent DS which is a fact often ignored and if anyone can marshall their limited resources effectively he can. It's all looking like being tremendously entertaining. Great for fans of the sport in general and maybe a bit less so for those obsessed with particular riders.

I also want to say I feel great for young Porte, I don't know where his career will go and he may never pull on another leaders jersey but I hope he really savours the experience.

 

[Cobblestones]

(some kind of gastro bug)

I thought this unspecified 'stomach flu' would go away in a cleaner peloton.

 

[Oldman]

Mmm... I wonder why that is? All the domestiques seem very 'brittle' these days

Yes and there are not "systems" in place to support their frailties. Combine that with some serious dietary scrutiny and you start to see what real racing is about. Nice change, don't you think?

 

[RedheadDane]

I thought it was quite... funny... that the favourites down in the MR-group had to go to the front and actually pull themselves. Come on; how often do you see the pink jersey (or the yellow... or the golden...) actually working at the front? Or... a team captain for that matter...
Yesterday everything about 'protected riders' was forgotten. (Just a shame it took so long for the favourites to co-operate...)

 

[auscyclefan94]

Things to think about:

1 Sastre isn't in such a bad shape. He mainly lost time because of crashes and bad luck. On the Terminillo he was still suffering from the crashes the day before.
2 The teams Astana and BMC aren't strong enough to control the race.
3 Liquigas didn't have to work. They had Kiserlovski and Agnoli in the leading group.
4 Richie Porte only lost 26 seconds to Vinokourov on the Terminillo, and he's a good time trialist.

1. yes but those crashes could catch up with him in the final week.
2. yes, but astana had pink so really it was there responsibilty to chase.
3. OMFG! Kiserlovski and Agnoli are not going to beat arroyo, sastre or tondo. They lost big time liquigas.
4. Porte is no chance, he will lose 5 to 10 minutes on the monte grappa let alone on the zoncolan.

 

[Frosty]

Looking forward. I don't see much anything happening tomorrow, but you never know, the attacks have been so frequent and blistering. The weather should get better, though we could still see some showers:

Accuweather Forecast.

I'm thinking on lucky stage 13, Cadel, Vino, Nibali or Basso need to launch the attack of their life at Perticara, 161km in on this profile here. It's not enough to drop everyone, but a well time attack could split the peloton into groups and drop someone enough to get some time back.

This day is before Monte Grappa. But I think attacks will be expected then, and it's more like a stage to not lose time, than gain it, as the huge descent and runout allows regrouping time.

Stage 15 is up Zoncolan.

Maybe there will be an attack on stage 13 but wont anyone who gets dropped there be dropped in the mountains anyway? If stage 13 is too much then there will be losing huge chunks of time on the following few days and so they will drop down the GC anyway. There is still the possibility of someone having a bad day, such as Sastre, or still being tired from the effort of the previous few days.

Maybe the most likely attacker would be Kiserkovski or Agnoli? Or just one team sets a high tempo to see who they can shake out/who looks strong etc, so they have a better idea of who will be strong in the coming few days?

Having said all that it wouldnt amaze with this race if the GC gets shuffled again today