Giro doping 2017

[Netserk]

Over half your brain is fat...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

No lynching, call a spade a spade.

Nibali is a work in progress, Aru, Evans, Vino, Armstrong, Landis, Shcleck, Contador, Valverde........................they are or were.......

I believe Aicar helps the loss of inner fat

Now you're just ignoring what I say...

I know these types of products exist but am arguing that the changes in body composition might be possible without them.

As for the rest of your post, I don't get your point. We're talking about transformations between different types of riders and you bring up people like Aru, Schleck, Contador and Valverde. Why? I never said that Thomas doesn't get medically aided in order to achieve his results. I merely stated that he might have changed his rider type without such aids (and I don't even categorically state that he definitely hasn't used them since I have no way of knowing). I just think it's odd for people to be more inclined to wanting to see Thomas shown a suspension than all other GC riders just because he has changed into becoming one from being a track rider.

Let me just say it out loud here. This forum exists to belittle Sky. Even when they do believe everyone is doping, they choose to point out at Froome, Thomas, Wiggins just because there is hate towards these particular riders, knowing theres a previously banned Contador and another nearly 40 year old previously banned Spanish rider on his best start to the season EVER.

Here hard work has no meaning. The ideal example being Betancur who with all his talent is still ****.

Dope and hard work is part of the game. Froome beats everyone at this game because of his will, hard work, preparation and his physiological gifts. Same was with Armstrong. Same was with Contador when he won.

Sky fans like you crying about posts about sky's obvious doping is pathetic.

There are thousands of threads in here and and sky are a small %

Sky work harder than everyone else? Since when? Since they hired Geert Leinders and Brian Cookson who helped set up Sky they have learned to work hard :lol:

Contador threads and Valverde threads here. Please post in them

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

No lynching, call a spade a spade.

Nibali is a work in progress, Aru, Evans, Vino, Armstrong, Landis, Shcleck, Contador, Valverde........................they are or were.......

I believe Aicar helps the loss of inner fat

Now you're just ignoring what I say...

I know these types of products exist but am arguing that the changes in body composition might be possible without them.

As for the rest of your post, I don't get your point. We're talking about transformations between different types of riders and you bring up people like Aru, Schleck, Contador and Valverde. Why? I never said that Thomas doesn't get medically aided in order to achieve his results. I merely stated that he might have changed his rider type without such aids (and I don't even categorically state that he definitely hasn't used them since I have no way of knowing). I just think it's odd for people to be more inclined to wanting to see Thomas shown a suspension than all other GC riders just because he has changed into becoming one from being a track rider.

Let me just say it out loud here. This forum exists to belittle Sky. Even when they do believe everyone is doping, they choose to point out at Froome, Thomas, Wiggins just because there is hate towards these particular riders, knowing theres a previously banned Contador and another nearly 40 year old previously banned Spanish rider on his best start to the season EVER.

Here hard work has no meaning. The ideal example being Betancur who with all his talent is still ****.

Dope and hard work is part of the game. Froome beats everyone at this game because of his will, hard work, preparation and his physiological gifts. Same was with Armstrong. Same was with Contador when he won.

Sky fans like you crying about posts about sky's obvious doping is pathetic.

There are thousands of threads in here and and sky are a small %

Sky work harder than everyone else? Since when? Since they hired Geert Leinders and Brian Cookson who helped set up Sky they have learned to work hard :lol:

Contador threads and Valverde threads here. Please post in them

I'm not here to argue with you. If you think what I wrote is crying, well, good for you.
Thats the thing. Its people like you who've created an image on Sky fans being stupid, dumb and hence, theres a taboo of not wanting to be Sky supporters.

Yes, and there are other riders whose doping is also obvious. Yet you chose to point out 3 guys from Sky.

About your last point; Thomas, Froomes and Wiggins individual threads are there. Please post in them. Youre the who brought them up, not me

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I'm not here to argue with you. If you think what I wrote is crying, well, good for you.

Thats the thing. Its people like you who've created an image on Sky fans being stupid, dumb and hence, theres a taboo of not wanting to be Sky supporters.

Yes, and there are other riders whose doping is also obvious. Yet you chose to point out 3 guys from Sky.

About your last point; Thomas, Froomes and Wiggins individual threads are there. Please post in them. Youre the who brought them up, not me

Sky fans have swallowed the who Sky Marginal gains shtick that Brailsford spouted since day one how they were going to work on the details to better at everything and get a tiny gain out of everything.

Then in the commons they admitted they didn't even know what was in a jiffy bag because they did not keep records.

Then the sky lies that been exposed time and time again. To believe in Sky is stupid and dumb.

 

[dlwssonic]

Re: Re:

No lynching, call a spade a spade.

Nibali is a work in progress, Aru, Evans, Vino, Armstrong, Landis, Shcleck, Contador, Valverde........................they are or were.......

I believe Aicar helps the loss of inner fat

Now you're just ignoring what I say...

I know these types of products exist but am arguing that the changes in body composition might be possible without them.

As for the rest of your post, I don't get your point. We're talking about transformations between different types of riders and you bring up people like Aru, Schleck, Contador and Valverde. Why? I never said that Thomas doesn't get medically aided in order to achieve his results. I merely stated that he might have changed his rider type without such aids (and I don't even categorically state that he definitely hasn't used them since I have no way of knowing). I just think it's odd for people to be more inclined to wanting to see Thomas shown a suspension than all other GC riders just because he has changed into becoming one from being a track rider.

Let me just say it out loud here. This forum exists to belittle Sky. Even when they do believe everyone is doping, they choose to point out at Froome, Thomas, Wiggins just because there is hate towards these particular riders, knowing theres a previously banned Contador and another nearly 40 year old previously banned Spanish rider on his best start to the season EVER.

Here hard work has no meaning. The ideal example being Betancur who with all his talent is still ****.

Dope and hard work is part of the game. Froome beats everyone at this game because of his will, hard work, preparation and his physiological gifts. Same was with Armstrong. Same was with Contador when he won.

Dude is this satire, because it's *** hilarious.

The best part is that Sky has already gotten busted and you still believe in them.

How does it feel to be 15 years behind the Americans supporting Armstrong. Come on it's 2017!!

 

[silvergrenade]

Re: Re:

I'm not here to argue with you. If you think what I wrote is crying, well, good for you.

Thats the thing. Its people like you who've created an image on Sky fans being stupid, dumb and hence, theres a taboo of not wanting to be Sky supporters.

Yes, and there are other riders whose doping is also obvious. Yet you chose to point out 3 guys from Sky.

About your last point; Thomas, Froomes and Wiggins individual threads are there. Please post in them. Youre the who brought them up, not me

Sky fans have swallowed the who Sky Marginal gains shtick that Brailsford spouted since day one how they were going to work on the details to better at everything and get a tiny gain out of everything.

Then in the commons they admitted they didn't even know what was in a jiffy bag because they did not keep records.

Then the sky lies that been exposed time and time again. To believe in Sky is stupid and dumb.

I agree. I dont. I dont believe in Astana either, or Bahrain, or Contador, or Porte, or any GC contender.
There is nobody to believe.(Cannondale maybe?)
There must be thousands of Jiffy bags out there. All their PR is to keep selling their story.
Had I been in Skys Management Team, I dont think I couldve done anything different except being the houlier than thou they show the world to be.

 

[deviant]

To lose inner fat? Really how does one achieve that? How does one go about measuring the inner fat? Where does the inner fat reside in the human body ( in sky fans it is in the head obviously)?

Men are known to store visceral fat around organs which is just one of the many reasons why men suffer more with cardiovascular disease and woman tend to store fat on the hips, buttocks etc instead of around the torso, in other words away from essential organs....if (and it's a big if) someone has found a way to mobilize that internal fat then it's possible to further reduce fat on athletes that already look like holocaust victims.
To give skeptics an example that I'm not talking nonsense the fat around your kidneys is known as suet and perfectly edible.

 

[Benotti69]

To lose inner fat? Really how does one achieve that? How does one go about measuring the inner fat? Where does the inner fat reside in the human body ( in sky fans it is in the head obviously)?

Men are known to store visceral fat around organs which is just one of the many reasons why men suffer more with cardiovascular disease and woman tend to store fat on the hips, buttocks etc instead of around the torso, in other words away from essential organs....if (and it's a big if) someone has found a way to mobilize that internal fat then it's possible to further reduce fat on athletes that already look like holocaust victims.
To give skeptics an example that I'm not talking nonsense the fat around your kidneys is known as suet and perfectly edible.

How does one remove that inner fat to get from the grupetto to the 3 TdF wins?

 

[BullsFan22]

Who was the last Austrian to win a stage at a GT? Kohl in 2008 TDF? He had his win taken because he was caught, right? Then it'd have to be Georg Totschnig at the 2003 TDF.

 

[deviant]

How does one remove that inner fat to get from the grupetto to the 3 TdF wins?

That I don't know....but the existence of inner fat around organs has been known about for years and is not disputed.

 

[roundabout]

Who was the last Austrian to win a stage at a GT? Kohl in 2008 TDF? He had his win taken because he was caught, right? Then it'd have to be Georg Totschnig at the 2003 TDF.

Neither of them won a stage in the races you mentioned.

 

[BullsFan22]

Who was the last Austrian to win a stage at a GT? Kohl in 2008 TDF? He had his win taken because he was caught, right? Then it'd have to be Georg Totschnig at the 2003 TDF.

Neither of them won a stage in the races you mentioned.

Ok, my mistake on Totschnig, it was actually 2005 on the Aix 3 Domaines! Don't know why I said 2003, maybe because they visited the same mountain that year as well, though now that I think of it, it was Sastre, coming across the line with a pacifier that won it that year, with a massive GC battle going on behind him. Anyway, Kohl I thought won a stage in 2008, but didn't. I know his results were erased, but for some reason I thought he won prior to the bust.

So yes, my bad.

 

[Squire]

Who was the last Austrian to win a stage at a GT? Kohl in 2008 TDF? He had his win taken because he was caught, right? Then it'd have to be Georg Totschnig at the 2003 TDF.

Kohl never won a stage.

Totschnig's win came in 2005, and what a stage that was. Long and hot day, Totschnig being in the break, dropping Garzelli and courageously holding on across the Port de Pailheres and up to Ax-3 Domaines. T-Mobile going ballistic on the Pailheres, attacking and chasing everybody including Vino, Armstrong's team totally disintegrating, Basso and Ullrich riding away, Armstrong effortlessly sprinting across the gap, the big three coming together for a three-way duel of the greats on the last climb, with Armstrong of course destroying everybody except Totschnig at the end.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yeah, the MTFs of that year's Tour were amazing.

Further down the road you had Mancebo and Rasmussen fighting the best that they had learned (Rasmussen didn't have any more blood bags left, so he was quite a bit weaker than he was in the Alps and in particular on Courchevel) and just grinding their way up the climbs while Basso, Ullrich and Armstrong duelled it out. Same exact story the next day to Soulan. Only thing left was Valverde not crashing and beating them all like he did on Courchevel!

 

[roundabout]

And yet Rasmussen was still about 4th best in the Pyrenees. I should probably look up his blood test results again.

 

[tobydawq]

And yet Rasmussen was still about 4th best in the Pyrenees. I should probably look up his blood test results again.

I attended a lecture held by him just this week where he told about his career. In 2005 he hadn't prepared himself for winning the Tour. His modest goal was to win a stage and the KOM jersey so when he suddenly found himself fighting for GC, he was caught out due to a) not having spent any time training his TT and b) not having made a medical plan that would sustain a proper bid for GC.

He did that the next year but it came to nought when a lot of his blood bags stored in Vienna were flushed into the Danube river when the Austrian skiing team who used the same facility was busted during the Winter Olympics in Turin causing panic in the owners of the blood bank.

Then he bought his own centrifuge together with two other riders (he didn't name them but I think he has done that before and I think they were Bernhard Kohl and perhaps Thomas Dekker, but I'm not sure) and was firing on all cylinders in 2007.

It was very interesting, really. He was quite funny and seems like a cool and no-nonsense kind of guy who clearly sees himself as the best and has no moral scruples with what he has done - as he said, all near-rivals have subsequently been exposed as having taken medical aids as well.

In fact, he argued that doping was less dangerous than anti-doping. He was very close to commiting suicide when he was pulled from the Tour and others have taken that step - not many riders have had negative health effects caused by drugs in the modern era and as he said, we would probably all be better off with a little erythropoietin to increase the oxygen flow to the brain

Now, he advises people to not take drugs but his reasoning is not that it's unfair or against the rules, but that everybody eventually gets caught and the success is not worth the downfall and public shaming. But he was under no illusions that things had bettered significantly in the peloton since his days because everything he did was still possible to do today.

 

[jmdirt]

So Ruffo says it was because of his prostate infection. OK, I'm no Dr. so maybe that could be the reason...except that his teammate also tested hot for the same thing, did he also have a prostate infection?

FYI: the above conversation about body fat:

"Visceral fat is sometimes referred to as 'active fat' because research has shown that this type of fat plays a distinctive and potentially dangerous role affecting how our hormones function."

"Visceral fat is technically excess intra-abdominal adipose tissue accumulation. In other words, it’s known as a “deep” fat that’s stored further underneath the skin than “subcutaneous” belly fat. It’s a form of gel-like fat that’s actually wrapped around major organs, including the liver, pancreas and kidneys.

Visceral fat is especially dangerous because, as you’ll find out, these fat cells do more than just sit there and cause your pants to feel tight — they also change the way your body operates."

 

[Valv.Piti]

And yet Rasmussen was still about 4th best in the Pyrenees. I should probably look up his blood test results again.

I attended a lecture held by him just this week where he told about his career. In 2005 he hadn't prepared himself for winning the Tour. His modest goal was to win a stage and the KOM jersey so when he suddenly found himself fighting for GC, he was caught out due to a) not having spent any time training his TT and b) not having made a medical plan that would sustain a proper bid for GC.

He did that the next year but it came to nought when a lot of his blood bags stored in Vienna were flushed into the Danube river when the Austrian skiing team who used the same facility was busted during the Winter Olympics in Turin causing panic in the owners of the blood bank.

Then he bought his own centrifuge together with two other riders (he didn't name them but I think he has done that before and I think they were Bernhard Kohl and perhaps Thomas Dekker, but I'm not sure) and was firing on all cylinders in 2007.

It was very interesting, really. He was quite funny and seems like a cool and no-nonsense kind of guy who clearly sees himself as the best and has no moral scruples with what he has done - as he said, all near-rivals have subsequently been exposed as having taken medical aids as well.

In fact, he argued that doping was less dangerous than anti-doping. He was very close to commiting suicide when he was pulled from the Tour and others have taken that step - not many riders have had negative health effects caused by drugs in the modern era and as he said, we would probably all be better off with a little erythropoietin to increase the oxygen flow to the brain

Now, he advises people to not take drugs but his reasoning is not that it's unfair or against the rules, but that everybody eventually gets caught and the success is not worth the downfall and public shaming. But he was under no illusions that things had bettered significantly in the peloton since his days because everything he did was still possible to do today.

Good post.

Robbed of TdF 2007. When people say Contador has won two Tours it should be '09 and '10 instead of '07 and '09.
I still have nightmares about that vacation, watching all the Pyreneen stages in a bar with a dutch guy, cheering on our 50-kg man MR, the one and only, watching him winning atop Aubisque after out dueling an incredible Contador in the Maillot Jaune, then the next day taken out. It was all he had dreamt about since he was a kid, all that mattered... Good lord.

 

[Kazistuta]

If Bardiani knew about the positives, then why the **** did they decide to line the two riders up at the team presentation Thursday? Seems beyond strange to me.....

 

[tobydawq]

Good post.

Robbed of TdF 2007. When people say Contador has won two Tours it should be '09 and '10 instead of '07 and '09.
I still have nightmares about that vacation, watching all the Pyreneen stages in a bar with a dutch guy, cheering on our 50-kg man MR, the one and only, watching him winning atop Aubisque after out dueling an incredible Contador in the Maillot Jaune, then the next day taken out. It was all he had dreamt about since he was a kid, all that mattered... Good lord.

To my great dismay I had signed up to go to a four-day summer tournament with my football team and was too young to have the spine to back out of it, so I couldn't watch the Aubisque stage. This was before mobiles with internet were common possessions but I had arranged with my mother that she would keep me updated on the stage (whihc took place while I was in a bus) so that I would know if we could get our second Danish Tour winner. She did that very well even if she disliked Rasmussen deeply but that didn't take away from my enthusiasm when I found out how it had unfolded.

After having settled down in the great city of Lemvig with my team and preparing to go to bed, the rumour started spreading that he had been thrown out of the race. I sincerely hoped people were just trolling (no one in the team other than me really cared about cycling) even though I had figured that it would be touch and go whether he would last the full three weeks. But then the text ticked in from the ultimate truth-saying authority on cycling of that summer (still my mother) and informed that he really was taken out. For a very naïve kid in his early teens that just felt so unfair and to this day I have never really understood why Jesper Worre felt the need to blab publicly about Rasmussen's two warnings which were confidential information. Other than him being a self-righteous moron who wants to lick important people in their behinds.

 

[BullsFan22]

Yeah, no doubt Rasmussen was screwed out of a certain TDF win that year. I know the tour was already under a huge cloud with Sinkewitz positive, the Vinokurov positive-the Astana team being dismissed...so I assume that the organizers really didn't want a repeat of 2006, but it effectively happened, because Rasmussen was going to hold off Contador and Leipheimer for the title that year.

Yes the whereabouts is critical, but look at who the beneficiaries were: Johan Bruyneel, Alberto Contador and Levi Leipheimer. All three of them later busted, in different circumstances, but busted nonetheless.

I can understand Rasmussen's frustration, and after Contador's bust in 2010, and the USPS/Discovery saga that followed, he was probably more irate. Not only that, but wasn't Contador's name mentioned in the Operacion Puerto documents? Should he have even ridden the 2007 tour?

 

[spiritualride]

Great post toby. The Rasmussen incident is one of many that made me very cynical of the governing bodies of the sport.

A big stain on Rasmussen though is he got someone else to unknowingly smuggle drugs for him, which is despicable behavior if true.

 

[thehog]

And yet Rasmussen was still about 4th best in the Pyrenees. I should probably look up his blood test results again.

I attended a lecture held by him just this week where he told about his career. In 2005 he hadn't prepared himself for winning the Tour. His modest goal was to win a stage and the KOM jersey so when he suddenly found himself fighting for GC, he was caught out due to a) not having spent any time training his TT and b) not having made a medical plan that would sustain a proper bid for GC.

He did that the next year but it came to nought when a lot of his blood bags stored in Vienna were flushed into the Danube river when the Austrian skiing team who used the same facility was busted during the Winter Olympics in Turin causing panic in the owners of the blood bank.

Then he bought his own centrifuge together with two other riders (he didn't name them but I think he has done that before and I think they were Bernhard Kohl and perhaps Thomas Dekker, but I'm not sure) and was firing on all cylinders in 2007.

It was very interesting, really. He was quite funny and seems like a cool and no-nonsense kind of guy who clearly sees himself as the best and has no moral scruples with what he has done - as he said, all near-rivals have subsequently been exposed as having taken medical aids as well.

In fact, he argued that doping was less dangerous than anti-doping. He was very close to commiting suicide when he was pulled from the Tour and others have taken that step - not many riders have had negative health effects caused by drugs in the modern era and as he said, we would probably all be better off with a little erythropoietin to increase the oxygen flow to the brain

Now, he advises people to not take drugs but his reasoning is not that it's unfair or against the rules, but that everybody eventually gets caught and the success is not worth the downfall and public shaming. But he was under no illusions that things had bettered significantly in the peloton since his days because everything he did was still possible to do today.

Rass was the meat in the sandwich between the UCI and ASO who were at loggerheads at the time. ASO were tired of Tour winners getting caught by police and not the UCI. So when the rumor came out ASO tossed him and not the UCI. McQuaid being McQuaid would blackball dopers if their ever got caught even though he was well aware of the doping, shucks Zorzoli was helping them! So no wonder Rasmussen was close to taking his own life. The injustice of cycling knows no bounds.....

Back to Giro doping, I'm sure clean G is going to go nuts on Etna.

 

[Random Direction]

So, who 'trained' in the last while on Etna, has good logistics support, dropped a bag, did shiite in the next race, and now has a fresh local refill?

And whose transfusion goes bad, with a mysterious jours says at the start of a GT?

 

[WheelofGear]

Placing a mountain stage just after the rest day should be illegal.

Get ready for some juicy performances.