Giro Stage 20 - De Gendt

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Oct 30, 2011
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hiero2 said:
Sling mud at de Gendt? Not my intention - but it might seem that way, I'll admit. No, it is that his performance - vs that of everyone else's on the stage - reminds me too much of other "marvelous" performances I have seen in the past. Landis, Pantani, Vino - they all seemed to find that little extra to make a performance that is "too good to be true". Listen to Sean Kelly on Eurosport as it happens, if you can find it on youtube. He was thinking it was a "too good to be true" kind of performance.
Landis, Pantani and Vino all did those things while being marked though, that's completely different from having the chase group not bothering for ages. If they were going full gas, how exactly did all their domestiques magically catch up?

If I can find it on Eurosport? I take it you didn't actually bother watching the video where the entire favourites group stops riding, since that was Eurosport on Youtube. Sean Kelly would never make insinuations about doping - he is notorious for falling silent when it is discussed.

Hiero said:
But I am not the only one saying that Basso and Rodriquez had no bullets left - or Basso and Liquigas at least. VdV said the same in an interview
from velonews /2012/06/ vande-velde-we-won-the-giro-with-chip-on-our-shoulders
Basso sucked, yes. That was a theme throughout the three weeks, not just on this stage. Rodríguez attacked Hesjedal late on, in fact the more pulling Hesjedal did, to more effective a Rodríguez attack was going to be.

On the other hand, I find evidence from VdV that de Gendt is indeed a young and promising rider who just happened to still have some juice left and decided to burn it up.


So, like I said, the ride still makes me suspicious. The contention that the pink jersey group was riding negatively after the Motirolo still holds no water with me. According to VdV, Katusha was riding negatively, but at the same time, when VdV was done pulling, NO OTHER lieutenants in that group had anything left to take over. They were cooked. But, the future will tell us true. I am more optimistic now - seeing that VdV noticed that De Gendt "was always there" - that he is a young rider who has juice and a future.
No other lieutenants in that group did take over. That is completely different from not being able to take over. They all knew their best chance was if Hesjedal was cooked, and they were all banking on him tiring himself out by chasing De Gendt. It's hardly surprising that they didn't send men forward to weaken themselves and ease the burden on Hesjedal. Watch the video I posted - they all just stop pedalling and start discussing who's going to take over. I would have been taking time out of them at points in that valley.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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Caruut said:
Landis, Pantani and Vino all did those things while being marked though, that's completely different from having the chase group not bothering for ages. If they were going full gas, how exactly did all their domestiques magically catch up?

If I can find it on Eurosport? I take it you didn't actually bother watching the video where the entire favourites group stops riding, since that was Eurosport on Youtube. Sean Kelly would never make insinuations about doping - he is notorious for falling silent when it is discussed.

Basso sucked, yes. That was a theme throughout the three weeks, not just on this stage. Rodríguez attacked Hesjedal late on, in fact the more pulling Hesjedal did, to more effective a Rodríguez attack was going to be.

No other lieutenants in that group did take over. That is completely different from not being able to take over. They all knew their best chance was if Hesjedal was cooked, and they were all banking on him tiring himself out by chasing De Gendt. It's hardly surprising that they didn't send men forward to weaken themselves and ease the burden on Hesjedal. Watch the video I posted - they all just stop pedalling and start discussing who's going to take over. I would have been taking time out of them at points in that valley.
Dude, afaic, you are supporting my arguments. I did not originally go to your vid, since I was avidly watching the whole stage the 1st time around. Because of your comment, I went to your vid, and it does not change my thinking. We could go through the whole event, minute-by-minute and argue this whole business - but I am not going to. You said it yourself. Basso was cooked and didn't have it. His Liquigas louies had been producing massively FOREVER - and they were cooked. Who else was there? Rodriquez +1, and one Euskatel. It was no bloody miracle some of the lieutenants caught up - these guys were TIRED. True, as VdV validates, and the moment your vid catches - Rodriquez at this point was riding negatively, but Basso couldn't DO anything else!

I will grant that Rodriquez etc seem to have given De Gendt more rope than was wise while riding negatively - but I also see that they realized the error of their ways - and it was highly likely there was nothing they could do. I was not riding with them - so I can not say 100%, but neither can you. As far as any lieutenants having any juice left to assist Rodriquez or Basso - this was their last chance. Both knew it. So did Tiralongo, and Pozzovivo, and all the rest up there. It was their last chance. It was the last chance for them, and for their teams, and for their captains. They knew this. If there was anything they COULD do, then they should have, and for most of them, we can be certain they WOULD have.

No, if you maintain that the pink jersey group was soft-pedaling, and I have not convinced you at all - then I will never convince you, and it is pointless to continue to try. The only thing that would convince me that De Gendt did not turn in a "miraculous" performance would be power meter data for him and the pink jersey group. Then, as I have said several times now, if we finally agree that De Gendt turned in a miraculous performance - there are two choices - either he had help, or he is a star in the making.
 
Oct 30, 2011
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hiero2 said:
Dude, afaic, you are supporting my arguments. I did not originally go to your vid, since I was avidly watching the whole stage the 1st time around. Because of your comment, I went to your vid, and it does not change my thinking. We could go through the whole event, minute-by-minute and argue this whole business - but I am not going to. You said it yourself. Basso was cooked and didn't have it. His Liquigas louies had been producing massively FOREVER - and they were cooked. Who else was there? Rodriquez +1, and one Euskatel. It was no bloody miracle some of the lieutenants caught up - these guys were TIRED. True, as VdV validates, and the moment your vid catches - Rodriquez at this point was riding negatively, but Basso couldn't DO anything else!
Rodríguez had a man up the road, the Astana lads were well out of GC and had a man up the road, Scarponi had a man up the road, the Euskaltel riders had a man up the road, Sky had an incentive (in the points jersey) not to drag Rodríguez up the stage rankings for no good reason. That leaves Basso, Pozzovivo and Gadret. Basso had been outclimbed by Rodríguez and Hesjedal for 3 weeks - he was a shadow of his former self. Pozzovivo and Gadret would both be near useless on the flat and if they wanted to get time back on De Gendt would get it back uphill rather than anywhere else. Hesjedal was the only rider with a real reason to ride, all the others had excuses and wanted to see him tire himself out.

Hiero said:
I will grant that Rodriquez etc seem to have given De Gendt more rope than was wise while riding negatively - but I also see that they realized the error of their ways - and it was highly likely there was nothing they could do. I was not riding with them - so I can not say 100%, but neither can you. As far as any lieutenants having any juice left to assist Rodriquez or Basso - this was their last chance. Both knew it. So did Tiralongo, and Pozzovivo, and all the rest up there. It was their last chance. It was the last chance for them, and for their teams, and for their captains. They knew this. If there was anything they COULD do, then they should have, and for most of them, we can be certain they WOULD have.
What could they have done, as domestiques? If they'd tried to pull, it would only have tired them out and meant Ryder didn't have to pull. The threat of De Gendt up the road and Ryder trying to close him down was possibly the only hope the others had. For everyone in that group, how far De Gendt was up the road was pretty irrelevant unless Ryder was out of the group.

Hiero said:
No, if you maintain that the pink jersey group was soft-pedaling, and I have not convinced you at all - then I will never convince you, and it is pointless to continue to try. The only thing that would convince me that De Gendt did not turn in a "miraculous" performance would be power meter data for him and the pink jersey group. Then, as I have said several times now, if we finally agree that De Gendt turned in a miraculous performance - there are two choices - either he had help, or he is a star in the making.
I think it has got to the point where neither of us will convince the other. I'm not saying that De Gendt isn't doping; he's a cyclist, unfortunately cycling's past casts a shadow over its present. I just think that your reasons for assuming he is doping more than the others in that situation are flawed.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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Caruut said:
. . .

I think it has got to the point where neither of us will convince the other. I'm not saying that De Gendt isn't doping; he's a cyclist, unfortunately cycling's past casts a shadow over its present. I just think that your reasons for assuming he is doping more than the others in that situation are flawed.
Finally we are talking on the same page. Ok, I could be wrong. I have no problem with that. I am only guessing, because De Gendt's performance seems to be more miraculous to me than the others. You, and others, don't see that. No problem. I have no evidence, and barring evidence, I am only bar-talking anyway.

Thanks for the conversation.

The next beer is on me.
 
May 26, 2010
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Dazed and Confused said:
Daniël de Martelaere (worked with PDM as well).

Hired just in time to get max performance out of Ricco at the Giro , but did De Gendt eventually benefit as well.

Story at velonation: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15852/Vacansoleil-DCM-under-scrutiny-after-reports-that-it-employed-an-unqualified-doctor.aspx
you got to love this quote from the Belgian Federation president Tom Van Damme

“I would have expected a bit more honesty and responsibility expected from a WorldTour team,” he stated.
Yeah right!!!!!
 
Why, the kbwb-rlvb seemingly ****ed up as much as vacansoleil but look like trying to shift blame

And the guy should have been publicly outed as a fraud 2 years ago. God knows who else he could have conned during that time.
 
roundabout said:
Why, the kbwb-rlvb seemingly ****ed up as much as vacansoleil but look like trying to shift blame

And the guy should have been publicly outed as a fraud 2 years ago. God knows who else he could have conned during that time.
agree, the rot goes deep all over the place.

The exposure is good however, as it highlights the situation around the doctor problem.
 
Ferminal said:
Umm he got married or something. Don't you know how hard it is for a cyclist to have a family and be successful?
Stayed single long enough to be able to turn pro, married prior to that awful '11 tour 62nd, divorced over the winter in time for a spectacular 3rd in the Giro, then musta got married over the summer and GT performance went straight to hell where it has remained since.

Or maybe he's had a lot of toothaches.
 
That would be your conclusion if you only consider grand tour GC placings
He was injured in the '11 Tour, and still had a great Alpe/TT in that Tour
His 2011 season was far from awful and apart from the Stelvio stage, probably on par with 2012
 
Is this the right place to ask what happened with De Gendt?
A couple of years ago I thought he was the most exciting GT prospect around with that Alpe d'Huez/TT performance in the Tour. He had good TT and climbing skills combined with a great attacking style and a perfect tactical sense. He backed it off with a spectacular performance on the Stelvio. Now he's basically useless when to me he could be the 2nd GT rider in Quickstep right after Uran.
 
The real question is with all the chargers around his current team why he hasn't been able to get a sniff of it (aside from the Ibarguren TT uppers). Maybe a personal choice, he is young after all, I'd expect him to be back soon enough, but it's unrealistic to expect GC performances.

I mean Westra has probably been able to get his bread buttered at Astana but still no Mende 2012.

Poels too.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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the sceptic said:
Pretty spectacular bust after that giro.

Yeah, I have to be wondering, too. Still, it happens. You have a good month - a lucky month - or a year. It happens.
 

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