Greg Lemond from another great racer's point of view

[Roland Rat]

Lemond rode during the 70's (amateur) and 80's (pro). He thus road before the hyper-tech, hyper-PROGRAMS, hyper-corporate age, and robotic- professionalism, got shot during his best years, gave away his first Tour as an American on a French team (just the cultural barriers alone, as the first US champ in Europe were considerable in the beginning on a French team) and still won 3 Tours and two Worlds.

As an American, back then, he also never found it easy being slim throughout the year as say the Italians or French or Belgian riders would do rather naturally, or at least not put on as much weight in the winter as Greg did. I think only Ullrich was a "talented" as he in this.

In any case, had he been French, and not gotten shot, how many Tours would he have won? 5? 6? 7? Because the possibility of a streak from 85-90-91, was there. It think he would have won several classics as well. He had the potential, perhaps, to win just about all of them, if not all from Flanders, to Roubaix, to Liege to Lombardy. Not many riders can claim that and be able to win the grand tours as well. He had exceptional all around abilities.

I know you can't re-write history, but Lemond didn't achieve the palmares that his undoubted class deserved, due to a number of circumstance I have tried to outline.

Amen. And to an 11 yr old watching his first Tours in 89/90/91, Lemond was just so ****ing cool, too.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Very interesting guy and very interesting things.

But come on claiming that LeMond could have won the Tour at age 17 is such a stupid bull****

 

[ultimobici]

Lemond rode during the 70's (amateur) and 80's (pro). He thus road before the hyper-tech, hyper-PROGRAMS, hyper-corporate age, and robotic- professionalism, got shot during his best years, gave away his first Tour as an American on a French team (just the cultural barriers alone, as the first US champ in Europe were considerable in the beginning on a French team) and still won 3 Tours and two Worlds.

As an American, back then, he also never found it easy being slim throughout the year as say the Italians or French or Belgian riders would do rather naturally, or at least not put on as much weight in the winter as Greg did. I think only Ullrich was a "talented" as he in this.

In any case, had he been French, and not gotten shot, how many Tours would he have won? 5? 6? 7? Because the possibility of a streak from 85-90-91, was there. It think he would have won several classics as well. He had the potential, perhaps, to win just about all of them, if not all from Flanders, to Roubaix, to Liege to Lombardy. Not many riders can claim that and be able to win the grand tours as well. He had exceptional all around abilities.

I know you can't re-write history, but Lemond didn't achieve the palmares that his undoubted class deserved, due to a number of circumstance I have tried to outline.

When you look at his classics record it is a wonder he didn't win one or more.

As well as winning the 83 Worlds he was the Super Prestige winner after finishing 2nd to Kelly in Lombardia. That was the race that sticks in my mind as the beginning of my love of cycling.

From 83 to 86, although he was not winning classics, he was competing with specialists like Kelly who he conceded to no less than three times at San Remo, Lombardia & Liege. His 4th in the 85 Roubaix was in one of the muddiest editions in recent memory with barely 30 finishers.

 

[benzwire]

He lost by millimeters to Kelly in the sprint at Lombardia ('83) and outsprinted him in the World Championships ('89). That's like Armstrong matching/beating Cav in a sprint. LeMond was definitely a great all around rider.

 

[movingtarget]

Yes, Lemond was a freak from a young age. Without his health problems and letting Hinault win one Tour on team orders, I am sure he would have won as many TDF's as Hinault. Hinault had the edge as a classics rider but Lemond was a class rider who I would rate slightly behind Hinault but better than Fignon.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Greg by his own admittance was never the same rider himself after his hunting accdient.

Undoubtedly true, but the same could be said of Fignon, he was never as consistent and able to dominate when he came from injury.

Its one of those sad facts of the 80's is that we never really got a full on fair fight when all the riders were in good health.
Imagine if there was a battle between an Fignon of '83, Hinault, LeMond (86) and I would include Roche of 87.

He lost by millimeters to Kelly in the sprint at Lombardia ('83) and outsprinted him in the World Championships ('89). That's like Armstrong matching/beating Cav in a sprint. LeMond was definitely a great all around rider.

That Lombardia, beautiful.

As for the 89 Worlds - Kelly had gone with (IIRC) a 13 sprocket, sacrificing a 12 as it was such a hilly circuit - LeMond had the 12.

 

[Digger]

Undoubtedly true, but the same could be said of Fignon, he was never as consistent and able to dominate when he came from injury.

Its one of those sad facts of the 80's is that we never really got a full on fair fight when all the riders were in good health.
Imagine if there was a battle between an Fignon of '83, Hinault, LeMond (86) and I would include Roche of 87.




That Lombardia, beautiful.

As for the 89 Worlds - Kelly had gone with (IIRC) a 13 sprocket, sacrificing a 12 as it was such a hilly circuit - LeMond had the 12.

Yeah I remember Kelly blaming the sprocket alright - I don't remember exactly what number it was.

If you had all those boys in their prime and fully fit - interesting one to say the least. Would Roche do more than podium, if that?

 

[ricara]

That Lombardia, beautiful.

The thing that struck me about that photo was that you had the front three guys in a straight-up, balls-out sprint.

Today it seems like too many sprints are about riding your competitors into the barriers, and somehow managing to escape relegation...

 

[rhubroma]

When you look at his classics record it is a wonder he didn't win one or more.

As well as winning the 83 Worlds he was the Super Prestige winner after finishing 2nd to Kelly in Lombardia. That was the race that sticks in my mind as the beginning of my love of cycling.

From 83 to 86, although he was not winning classics, he was competing with specialists like Kelly who he conceded to no less than three times at San Remo, Lombardia & Liege. His 4th in the 85 Roubaix was in one of the muddiest editions in recent memory with barely 30 finishers.

Yea, well, Kelly was bad a$$.

 

[Benotti69]

Yea, well, Kelly was bad a$$.

yeap he was a hard man but should have had won more but he never had a great team or a DS during his career. was that because he wasn't a Belgium, Dutch French or Italian, i dont know.

 

[Kennf1]

He lost by millimeters to Kelly in the sprint at Lombardia ('83) and outsprinted him in the World Championships ('89). That's like Armstrong matching/beating Cav in a sprint. LeMond was definitely a great all around rider.

I recall Lemond advocating doing a sprint workout once a week, year round, regardless of what "type" of rider you were.

 

[Topangarider]

Enjoy-

http://www.velominati.com/blog/racing/six-days-of-the-worlds-chambery-france-1989/

Link to video at the bottom of the page

 

[blackcat]

The thing that struck me about that photo was that you had the front three guys in a straight-up, balls-out sprint.

Today it seems like too many sprints are about riding your competitors into the barriers, and somehow managing to escape relegation...

Robbie Mcewen board. Forced Fabrizio Guidi into the barriers in Denmark Rund in 1999, and he had to go off in an ambulance to hospital. Was a million times worse than Matti Breschel at Tour of West Flanders Johan Museeuw Classic in 2006.

 

[hwyrngr]

That Lombardia, beautiful.

You can see Moser right over Kelly's left shoulder in that sprint.

 

[Zweistein]

Robbie Mcewen board. Forced Fabrizio Guidi into the barriers in Denmark Rund in 1999, and he had to go off in an ambulance to hospital. Was a million times worse than Matti Breschel at Tour of West Flanders Johan Museeuw Classic in 2006.

The sprinting I believe was different because there was more of a threat of retaliation. The Tour Day France announcer guy I believe was sort of an enforcer on his team. If the peleton won't let him lead the leader around he would start ****. I have a hard time thinking of anyone recently who was deliberately sent into the ditch for irregular sprinting.

 

[NashbarShorts]

...Its one of those sad facts of the 80's is that we never really got a full on fair fight when all the riders were in good health.
Imagine if there was a battle between an Fignon of '83, Hinault, LeMond (86) and I would include Roche of 87.

Isn't it pretty well-established that the Roche of '87 was geared up w/ Dr. Conconi? I like Roche, but you can't have a fair fight w/o fairness

 

[NashbarShorts]

Agreed. No doubt Lemond fantastic. To my mind a significant amount of time that Lemond made up in the TT (to win) was due to his ability. However also no doubt that the aero (triathlon) bars and helmet were crucial.

Aargh. The Scott bars were not a secret weapon, Fignon's team had them too. The story is that Fignon actually had them on his bike during the warmup for '89 Tour TT #2, but didn't like them and had his mechanic take them off the bike.

Also, I recall reading that in the final TT, Fignon opted not to wear a helmet b/c he figured the distance was so short that any aero diff would be negligible and would not outweigh the cooling factor of riding helmetless.

The fact is Fignon rode a great TT (came in 2nd, right?) and when collapsed to the ground at the finish, was sure he had WON. Didn't know otherwise 'til his soigneur told him so.

I think if you re-watch that TT, Lemond was rocksolid-smooth as balls-no wasted motion, whereas Fignon thrashes around alot. Also Lemond told his chase car to remain silent and not bother him w/ any split times. I think uninterrupted focus and solid position is what made the difference...

 

[Race Radio]

I think if you re-watch that TT, Lemond was rocksolid-smooth as balls-no wasted motion, whereas Fignon thrashes around...

Fignon had a giant saddle sore

 

[Race Radio]

Isn't it pretty well-established that the Roche of '87 was geared up w/ Dr. Conconi? I like Roche, but you can't have a fair fight w/o fairness

I may be wrong but I do not think Roche started working with Conconi until later

 

[Stingray34]

I may be wrong but I do not think Roche started working with Conconi until later

Yes, he started working with Conconi when he returned to Carrera in 92. All of that team was working with Conconi and the U of Ferrara doctors. This was the year he made a 'comeback' of sorts; he was all but washed up with Team Fagor and Tonton Tapis in 89-91.

 

[Hampsten88]

The issue I have with discussions like this is that they always turn into "my time" vs. "now." If you read some of the comments by Tilford and others on here you see a lot of them are saying the same things as have been said in the past ten or so years about today's great riders. Excuses are made why doping was ok back then but not today, etc. Keep in mind that watching Lemond back in 1985 is why I started racing, I loved him, Roche, Delgado, Hinault, Hampsten, etc. so I am not just saying this because I am a newbie rider/fan.

 

[Digger]

The issue I have with discussions like this is that they always turn into "my time" vs. "now." If you read some of the comments by Tilford and others on here you see a lot of them are saying the same things as have been said in the past ten or so years about today's great riders. Excuses are made why doping was ok back then but not today, etc. Keep in mind that watching Lemond back in 1985 is why I started racing, I loved him, Roche, Delgado, Hinault, Hampsten, etc. so I am not just saying this because I am a newbie rider/fan.

You love yourself - so vain.

 

[Hampsten88]

You love yourself - so vain.

What can I say, I win, I love!

 

[lean mean &green]

Enjoy-

http://www.velominati.com/blog/racing/six-days-of-the-worlds-chambery-france-1989/

Link to video at the bottom of the page

i'm surprised no one's commented on this video. the finish to the '89 WC is strong evidence of what tilford talked about. on a good day greg really was unbeatable. at the end of a long, hard, and very nervous rainy day lemond covers every move himself and still wins the sprint having to start it himself from a long way out. even having done all of the work late no one can come around greg. he may have won by no more than a wheel-length but he was far better than the top riders in the world in the closing kilometers that day.

i'm not sure i totally agree with tilford's point and greg certainly had his share of bad days too. i do agree that training harder or smarter won't produce a champion from last year's pack fodder tho.

 

[Hampsten88]

i'm surprised no one's commented on this video. the finish to the '89 WC is strong evidence of what tilford talked about. on a good day greg really was unbeatable. at the end of a long, hard, and very nervous rainy day lemond covers every move himself and still wins the sprint having to start it himself from a long way out. even having done all of the work late no one can come around greg. he may have won by no more than a wheel-length but he was far better than the top riders in the world in the closing kilometers that day.

i'm not sure i totally agree with tilford's point and greg certainly had his share of bad days too. i do agree that training harder or smarter won't produce a champion from last year's pack fodder tho.

Couldn't a doped rider do what Lemond did? Bear in mind I prefer not to say anyone doped unless I have actual, proven evidence, so I am not saying Lemond doped, but merely pointing out that if a rider today did the same thing he would be labeled a doper.