Greg Lemond on Doping

[Race Radio]

Public Strategies talking points

It appears you did not follow the case. Trek screwed Greg because their main gravy train and petulant child, Armstrong, cried to daddy to make him go away.

We agree on the rest. Trek ignored the massive amount of evidence that Armstrong doped because they made money from him and his groupies. This is a tacit approval and enabling of doping

 

[alberto.legstrong]

Susan can we get some troll assistance here please.

Once again, the troll is not the problem, the compulsive feeding of the trolls by members 'in good standing' is the problem.

 

[La Vie Claire]

I see CN has no mention of Lemonds quote in USA about Lance telling him he used EPO...

I am afraid all the Lance Pop-Up-advertisements have gotten in the way of CN reporting the news. Omerta at its best!

What else is new? CN also reiterated that LA never tested positive. Don't bite the hand that feeds you I guess. Surprised they didn't include the paunch quote or the obligatory bad photo.

 

[offbyone]

It appears you did not follow the case. Trek screwed Greg because their main gravy train and petulant child, Armstrong, cried to daddy to make him go away.

We agree on the rest. Trek ignored the massive amount of evidence that Armstrong doped because they made money from him and his groupies. This is a tacit approval and enabling of doping

I do understand that part of the decision that led to Trek pulling sponsorship of Lemond had to do with Armstrong. But Lemond, whether rightfully or not, was causing trouble for Armstrong. He should have expected reprecussions. Trek got put in the middle of this squabble and they reacted by making a smart business decision. Even if you vehemently dislike armstrong, i think it is pretty clear that the smart business decision is to keep him happy as he is a cash cow for trek.

 

[this_is_edie]

Yes, this is yet another problem with the UCI. However Ashenden and Catlin have recently verified (see ESPN Bonnie Ford article) that Landis' claims that IV EPO injection has only a 6 hour test window are correct. So pretty much the EPO test has never worked as 6 hours is going to catch very few riders.

thanks. I forgot about that one.

oh what a tangled web we weave

 

[MacRoadie]

i think it is pretty clear that the smart business decision is to keep him happy as he is a cash cow for trek.

Bingo.

Unfortunately, it was neither the honest nor ethical decision.

 

[oldschoolnik]

let's put aside the recording's existence for a moment.

it would be more than probable that novitzky by now have heard what greg said to the usa today. i cant imagine him not being interested in the brand new fact of armstrong's self-admitted doping in 2001 provided the fda investigation is a reality. now, he jots on his day planner to call greg.

what does greg do when novitzky finally rings him?

he accepts an invitation for an interview, confirms his 100% readiness to take a witness stand if required and by the end of the interview throws a final bit - 'i have proof corroborating my statements'.

we know that greg's wife has corroborated pieces of that telecon. he must have something.

if i were greg, i would offer the recording or whatever the evidence was regardless of the formal legality.

what would be the impediments for greg to hold back the corroborating evidence ?

im not a lawyer but i see none. are there any ?

In your scenario above I would think it would be just Greg's word against LA's - BUT... Greg will be a great conduit of information for Novitzky- that is, he knows who, if anyone, might have some harder evidence, like Emma O'Reily or others who actually shot some of these guys in the **** with stuff - just like in the Balco case... Maybe the person we need to send the list of people for Jeff Novitzky to speak with is to Greg LeMond and he can sit down and go through the list and say "No, yes, no yes he has pictures, etc..."

 

[MacRoadie]

Maybe the person we need to send the list of people for Jeff Novitzky to speak with is to Greg LeMond and he can sit down and go through the list and say "No, yes, no yes he has pictures, etc..."

Don't be so sure he hasn't seen it already...

 

[tifosa]

Once again, the troll is not the problem, the compulsive feeding of the trolls by members 'in good standing' is the problem.

Yes. I remember March 27, 2009 just like it was yesterday:

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=4281#post4281

Responding or reacting to trolls is their oxygen supply. Cut the air supply off. Please.




Now, Go Greg!!!!! (Last shouted in Paris, 1990.)


The truth shall set cycling free.

 

[offbyone]

On your first paragraph - no-one suggested it was 'all sponsors'.

Greg's comments were directed at Trek - and how they pulled his brand, not because of his anti-doping comments, but because they were instructed to by LA.

Yes, most sponsors of most sports are in many ways 'ignoring' what is done to achieve success - but in Treks case it did not just ignore the problem, it chose a side when it did not need to.

See my reply to race radio. Trek is following the money as they should. They are a business, not a doping agency or a sporting organization. If Lance was convicted by the uci/wada of doping then you can judge trek, but he hasn't been.

What I was trying to say in relation to the sponsors is that if you are going to "judge" trek you better judge all the other sponsors that are working with dopers or ex-dopers. Personally, I don't think this is the sponsors duty. It is bad enough that these companies fork over huge dollar amounts only to receive bad publicity when a doping scandal appears on their team. They are in a real tough position and we need them to keep the sport going and I won't burden them with this responsibility.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

Has anyone else noticed BPC's various identities on here always cite personal gain as the sole human motivation for Lance's detractors?

Landis motivated by missing gravy train, Lemond motivated by losing No. 1 spot, etc., whilst LA's is motivation is solely messianic. Yet along with hating cancer he also hates knockers and loves money.

Says something about the world BPC has made for himself.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

See my reply to race radio. Trek is following the money as they should. They are a business, not a doping agency or a sporting organization. If Lance was convicted by the uci/wada of doping then you can judge trek, but he hasn't been.

What I was trying to say in relation to the sponsors is that if you are going to "judge" trek you better judge all the other sponsors that are working with dopers or ex-dopers. Personally, I don't think this is the sponsors duty. It is bad enough that these companies fork over huge dollar amounts only to receive bad publicity when a doping scandal appears on their team. They are in a real tough position and we need them to keep the sport going and I won't burden them with this responsibility.

Yes, Trek are a business and rightly should follow the money. No-one is saying they should have cut tie's with LA. But they did not need to cut Lemonds brand before the end of contract.

All Greg said was:

"I hope all of this sheds light on all the corporate enabling that went on, especially the one that tried to take my brand away from me," LeMond said.

As for other sponsors in cycling - they did not choose one side over another, so it is not the same as the Trek case.

 

[offbyone]

Yes, Trek are a business and rightly should follow the money. No-one is saying they should have cut tie's with LA. But they did not need to cut Lemonds brand before the end of contract.

All Greg said was:


As for other sponsors in cycling - they did not choose one side over another, so it is not the same as the Trek case.

I see what you are saying about choosing one side over another. However, if Trek's choice is to have their biggest most popular athlete happy or keep Lemond's dead end brand then I think the choice is obvious. Again smart business decision. Keep in mind the numbers on Lemond's brand were not impressive.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I see what you are saying about choosing one side over another. However, if Trek's choice is to have their biggest most popular athlete happy or keep Lamond's dead end brand then I think the choice is obvious. Again smart business decision. Keep in mind the numbers on Lemond's brand were not impressive.

Which brings in Greg's point - a sponsor of a rider should not be letting its athletes dictate their (business) strategy.
Also the reason the 'Lemond' line was in decline was because Trek were not pushing the brand (which would have been popular in Europe)

I do agree that once Trek made a decision to choose one rider over another it would choose 'the cash cow'.

But it also shows, when Greg took his case, wasn't bitter or angry- he was right.

 

[Old Gringo Stan]

Proud of Le Mond

I am very proud of Greg......let the chips fall where they may "courage is not simply one of the virtues, it is the main virtue of all others at the testing point" C S Lewis. Lance has always said they look hard for every advantage they can scrounge up. Lots of $$$$$$$ involved. I still admire him greatly for what he has done for cancer.......

 

[BikeCentric]

I see what you are saying about choosing one side over another. However, if Trek's choice is to have their biggest most popular athlete happy or keep Lemond's dead end brand then I think the choice is obvious. Again smart business decision. Keep in mind the numbers on Lemond's brand were not impressive.

FYI the LeMond brand of road bikes was one of the best selling brands in the USA as far back as 2002; I can tell you this as someone who was working as a shop mechanic for a Trek dealer from '99 to '02.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

I see what you are saying about choosing one side over another. However, if Trek's choice is to have their biggest most popular athlete happy or keep Lemond's dead end brand then I think the choice is obvious. Again smart business decision. Keep in mind the numbers on Lemond's brand were not impressive.

You seem to equate profit with morality here. All the good things in the world are made up of more than just 'smart business decisions.' How smart is it to kill a brand you own only to end up in court later for it (and pay through the nose for it, too)?

 

[dickwrench]

I am very proud of Greg......let the chips fall where they may "courage is not simply one of the virtues, it is the main virtue of all others at the testing point" C S Lewis. Lance has always said they look hard for every advantage they can scrounge up. Lots of $$$$$$$ involved. I still admire him greatly for what he has done for cancer.......

Hey man Greg Lemond did not a thing for cancer. Lance has done all of that so why you say he has courage makes no since. It is bad enouhgh that Greg Lemond tries to tarnish the record of Lance after he could only win 3 tours but don't say he fights cancer too. There is enough false stuff in here without you adding to it thank you.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

Hey man Greg Lemond did not a thing for cancer. Lance has done all of that so why you say he has courage makes no since. It is bad enouhgh that Greg Lemond tries to tarnish the record of Lance after he could only win 3 tours but don't say he fights cancer too. There is enough false stuff in here without you adding to it thank you.

I know, only winning three Tours is crap, isn't it.

At least they were three Tours won cleanly. Who else, besides your holy of holies, has the audacity to accuse GL of otherwise without a zygot of evidence?

Again, fanboys always think GL's criticism of LA is motivated by insecurity and personal gain. I wonder what influences Armstrong?

Oh yeah, the hatred of cancer, I forgot. Lance Armstrong is motivated by the human condition. The true existential hero.

 

[dickwrench]

I know, only winning three Tours is crap, isn't it.

At least they were three Tours won cleanly. Who else, besides your holy of holies, has the audacity to accuse GL of otherwise without a zygot of evidence?

Again, fanboys always think GL's criticism of LA is motivated by insecurity and personal gain. I wonder what influences Armstrong?

Oh yeah, the hatred of cancer, I forgot. Lance Armstrong is motivated by the human condition. The true existential hero.

OK dude you don't know how clean Greg Lemond is what you live with the guy in the 80's? I know you people goal in here is to sniff his shorts but c'mon you don't know anything for certain.

Lance won 2.333333333 times as many Tours and Greg Lemond. Scoreboard. Word.

What is zygot?

 

[Oldman]

OK dude you don't know how clean Greg Lemond is what you live with the guy in the 80's? I know you people goal in here is to sniff his shorts but c'mon you don't know anything for certain.

Lance won 2.333333333 times as many Tours and Greg Lemond. Scoreboard. Word.

What is zygot?[/QUOTE]

A measurement equal to your argument. Who gave you a device with a keyboard, anyway?

 

[Mr.DNA]

Heh heh...some jack@$$ named "reddnblu" left this ironic comment below the USA Today article:

Seems to me they are all jealous of Lance, especially Le Mond. Still innocent till proven guilty, and hell they have sure tried. Keep peddling Lance.

 

[CycloErgoSum]

OK dude you don't know how clean Greg Lemond is what you live with the guy in the 80's? I know you people goal in here is to sniff his shorts but c'mon you don't know anything for certain.

Lance won 2.333333333 times as many Tours and Greg Lemond. Scoreboard. Word.

What is zygot?

You're right, I don't know how clean GL was. I also don't invest any emotions in the guy. But I do know that until LA in 2002, who BTW also never lived with him, started accusing him for self-interested reasons. History speaks. It's our past, present and future. History suggests GL was clean. History seems to suggest otherwise for LA.

A zygot is a very small thing. Saying 'shred of evidence' is a cliche I would prefer to avoid.

 

[MacRoadie]

Who gave you a device with a keyboard, anyway?

They're available for all skill levels; he's probably particularly fond of this one:

It's from Texas too...

Sorry, forgot to add: Scoreboard, Word, Out.

 

[dickwrench]

OK dude you don't know how clean Greg Lemond is what you live with the guy in the 80's? I know you people goal in here is to sniff his shorts but c'mon you don't know anything for certain.

Lance won 2.333333333 times as many Tours and Greg Lemond. Scoreboard. Word.

What is zygot?[/QUOTE]

A measurement equal to your argument. Who gave you a device with a keyboard, anyway?

maybe you should learn how to use the quote thing right before you start insulting others about how to use a computer oldman.

Debate the subject, don't attack the debater so I do not wish to reply tit tat with your ad hominum attacks. Word.