Greg was right

[Alpe d'Huez]

Betsy - The vast majority of American journalists bought the Lance lie hook, line and sinker, and either dismissed the truth I spoke or were openly hostile toward me.

I think several of us, myself included desperately need to cowboy up and help start a campaign to reverse this. Writing letters to local media outlets - newspaper editors and writers, TV station sports directors, assignment editors, producers etc.

I can guarantee you that if you hit them with direct facts and quotes, and links, as long as it's succinct, they'll listen. It won't happen over night, but if we can keep at it, it will have an impact so crap like what happened to Betsy doesn't easily continue.

I'll see if I can start a thread in the next few days on educating the mass media.

 

[therhodeo]

Greg needs a new bike line. Small company/production.

Also it needs to be said. F#*@ Trek and the juiced up horse they rode in on.

 

[gregod]

I think several of us, myself included desperately need to cowboy up and help start a campaign to reverse this. Writing letters to local media outlets - newspaper editors and writers, TV station sports directors, assignment editors, producers etc.

I can guarantee you that if you hit them with direct facts and quotes, and links, as long as it's succinct, they'll listen. It won't happen over night, but if we can keep at it, it will have an impact so crap like what happened to Betsy doesn't easily continue.

I'll see if I can start a thread in the next few days on educating the mass media.

hahaha. good one, dude. just like all of those pundits who came around after their folly was exposed about WMD, iraq, afghanistan, etc. it will be many, many friedman units before that happens. if ever.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

hahaha. good one, dude. just like all of those pundits who came around after their folly was exposed about WMD, iraq, afghanistan, etc. it will be many, many friedman units before that happens. if ever.

I work in the media.

Your move.

 

[Topangarider]

That is the real deal in that picture No F-ing Doubt!

side note......Hey Chris do not flame me for being a Greg Lemond Fanboy!

Thanks Greg

Yep, thanks Greg. What a classy rider.

 

[gregod]

I work in the media.

Your move.

what is your point?

 

[gregod]

I think several of us, myself included desperately need to cowboy up and help start a campaign to reverse this. Writing letters to local media outlets - newspaper editors and writers, TV station sports directors, assignment editors, producers etc.

I can guarantee you that if you hit them with direct facts and quotes, and links, as long as it's succinct, they'll listen. It won't happen over night, but if we can keep at it, it will have an impact so crap like what happened to Betsy doesn't easily continue.

I'll see if I can start a thread in the next few days on educating the mass media.

although i have stated my skepticism as to its effectiveness, you are right that we, cycling fans, should be all over the fanboy media for buying the mythology and smearing those who were honest.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I'm telling you from direct experience having sat 10 feet from assignment desks for hours on end days on end, sat in on countless news meetings, answered phones, e-mails, interacted with news directors, executive producers, assignment editors, news anchors, reporters, producers, having worked in the field, in a studio, etc. etc., for several years.

I'm not a reporter, but I have worked as a content producer and photographer (video/ENG). If I, or someone in a more direct media position to mine, knows a small amount about topic X while covering a continuing story, and someone comes along with direct, succinct information that is factual and well researched, and these facts are repeated from several viewer sources, that information will seriously be taken into consideration.

 

[gregod]

I'm telling you from direct experience having sat 10 feet from assignment desks for hours on end days on end, sat in on countless news meetings, answered phones, e-mails, interacted with news directors, executive producers, assignment editors, news anchors, reporters, producers, having worked in the field, in a studio, etc. etc., for several years.

I'm not a reporter, but I have worked as a content producer and photographer (video/ENG). If I, or someone in a more direct media position to mine, knows a small amount about topic X while covering a continuing story, and someone comes along with direct, succinct information that is factual and well researched, and these facts are repeated from several viewer sources, that information will seriously be taken into consideration.

i hope you are right, but as alluded to above, i remain skeptical as to its effectiveness. it should be done. count me in. but media mea culpas are few and far between and seldom of substance.

 

[slowuphill]

LiveLemond....still works for me.

 

[gregod]

LiveLemond....still works for me.

or LemondStrong?

 

[D-Queued]

Also it needs to be said. F#*@ Trek and the juiced up horse they rode in on.

Watch EBay for a flood of used Wreks. Wouldn't be caught dead on one.

Dave.

 

[ricara]

Wanna know the REAL tragedy in all this?

After all is said and done, not one American cyclist who rode in Europe after Lemond retired could say he did it clean, either by strong implication/association or getting caught outright.

Not one.

Andy Hampsten.

He was on the Motorola team with Lance. He quit racing because he wouldn't dope and without it he was pack fodder.

One time 1st in the Giro.
Two times 4th in the TdF.
Winner of L'alpe d'Huez.

But you are right. He didn't "come of age" in the Lance era. He was a real man when Lance was still in diapers.

 

[danjo007]

i would say greg lemond ALSO doped... they all did ffs. its just tards like him who pretend they are clean as a whistle, and start pointing fingers at everyone else.

 

[ultimobici]

i would say greg lemond ALSO doped... they all did ffs. its just tards like him who pretend they are clean as a whistle, and start pointing fingers at everyone else.

This has been argued to death, mate. The result is that while it can never be proven absolutely that he didn't, it is highly unlikely given his more than vocal anti-doping stand. After all he has said in the last 30 years about doping not one solitary shred of an accusation has surfaced, I wonder why..........?

 

[Benotti69]

This has been argued to death, mate. The result is that while it can never be proven absolutely that he didn't, it is highly unlikely given his more than vocal anti-doping stand. After all he has said in the last 30 years about doping not one solitary shred of an accusation has surfaced, I wonder why..........?

Dont quote the troll. Just report him. little icon top righthand of his post

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Are the trolls getting dumber, or is the issue getting clearer?

 

[gregod]

This has been argued to death, mate. The result is that while it can never be proven absolutely that he didn't, it is highly unlikely given his more than vocal anti-doping stand. After all he has said in the last 30 years about doping not one solitary shred of an accusation has surfaced, I wonder why..........?

the bolded part is IMO more likely evidence of having doped than not. "thou dost protest too much" and all that. However, the underlined part is a much stronger indication that he was clean. the part in red is always true for a negative.

 

[gregod]

Dont quote the troll. Just report him. little icon top righthand of his post

it is a bit unfair to say that someone is trolling just because he or she thinks lemond doped, too. it is pretty easy to be cynical about everyone involved in cycling from any era.

That is not to say that i agree with that opinion. but simply saying something controversial or expressing a minority opinion shouldn't be automatically called trolling.

 

[callac]

the bolded part is IMO more likely evidence of having doped than not. "thou dost protest too much" and all that. (...).

Oh, that really completely applies to doping and cycling...

Make a list of DS and former or current pro-riders who advocated for more testing, drastic measures -such as keeping riders in an isolated area a few hours before and after a race-, use of comparison between VO2max and performances/power data, removing testing from the hands of UCI..., all this kind of ideas that constitute an anti-doping stance.

And then make a list of those who would just say "talking about doping is bad for cycling", "never tested positive... ", which may be view by certain persons as being an anti-doping stance, but which is an 'anti-talking-about-doping stance'.

Now see who got later busted or admitted to doping within the former list, and then within the latter...
What you call 'protest' as LeMond did it is actually a very healthy sign.

 

[gregod]

...
What you call 'protest' as LeMond did it is actually a very healthy sign.

i think you are comparing apples and oranges. lemond became very involved in this well after he retired. you are right for the cyclists who would still be subject to the testing they advocate, but to compare that standard to a retired rider is a non sequitur.

that is not to say that lemond is wrong or in any way implicate him in anything nefarious during his cycling career. also, by protest, i mean constantly saying, "i never doped" like a certain soon to be defrocked tour winner.

 

[callac]

i think you are comparing apples and oranges. lemond became very involved in this well after he retired.

Wrong. It's very hard to find internet sources pre-1994, so you don't have to believe it... but he did advocate for more testing while still racing. I think he's always been "very involved". Media just started caring about what he had to say long after he retired.

... also, by protest, i mean constantly saying, "i never doped" like a certain soon to be defrocked tour winner.

And that's something LeMond has been constantly doing?

 

[gregod]

Wrong. It's very hard to find internet sources pre-1994, so you don't have to believe it... but he did advocate for more testing while still racing. I think he's always been "very involved". Media just started caring about what he had to say long after he retired.

you missed the point. all of the post-retirement protestations are not subject to the same kind of scrutiny as pre-retirement because he no longer has any skin in the game. he has something to gain from discrediting a doper (boosting his legacy) with much less of a chance of himself being exposed as a former doper (not that i think he was. i don't). so, it looks to the casual fan and/or fanboy as sour grapes. while consistency is definitely a point in his favor (if in fact he was as vocal during his career) it is still different.

And that's something LeMond has been constantly doing?

no. you are right. it was a poorly worded point on my part. what i meant to say is his working to expose the uniballer looks like he is trying to deflect attention from any past indiscretions on his own part.

 

[ultimobici]

it was a poorly worded point on my part. what i meant to say is his working to expose the uniballer looks like he is trying to deflect attention from any past indiscretions on his own part.

One thing that is plain to see is that Greg Lemond has never set out to expose Armstrong, rather he was forced to defend himself against Armstrong's vitriolic attack.

Lemond was asked a simple question in the wake of the Ferrari affair & the attendant relationship with Armstrong. His response, "If Armstrong's clean, it's the greatest comeback. And if he's not, then it's the greatest fraud." was not offensive in any way, shape or form - unless the subject of the comment had anything to hide. Armstrong has shown time and again that his only method of defence is to attack. Instead of responding in a measured way and merely stating that time would show that the first part of Lemond's comment was the correct one, he chose to take it as an overt attack. More fool him.

What is evident from the ensuing events is that Lemond has his integrity intact despite the battering he has taken over the last decade from Armstrong & his supporters, while Lance is looking more and more pathetic by the day.

I just hope that ASO put big fat asterisks along all of his Tour results.

 

[ChrisE]

perhaps i am naive, but i didn't hear of the serious drugs like EPO until around '95 or '96, but admittedly i was late to the party. even though both hinault and fignon admitted to taking "something", i have to believe that the majority of riders in the pre-postal/festina era were clean. until i see overwhelming evidence like we've had over the last few years about this era, i will continue to think that era wasn't too bad.

DING DING DING HELLO!!!!! Does this post slip by the normally astute posters?

Hampsten rode and thrived in the years of EPO, which began in 90. Don't let that little fact stop the Hampsten clean hero party, though.