Greg was right

[Yeahright]

He doesn't look quite so lean now lol

 

[Yeahright]

DING DING DING HELLO!!!!! Does this post slip by the normally astute posters?

Hampsten rode and thrived in the years of EPO, which began in 90. Don't let that little fact stop the Hampsten clean hero party, though.

So Le Mond rode clean while most if not all of his main rivals doped. Yeah I believe that.....yawn. Just like I believe Lance is innocent.....yawn.

 

[ChrisE]

That is the real deal in that picture No F-ing Doubt!

side note......Hey Chris do not flame me for being a Greg Lemond Fanboy!

No problem. The greatest race I have ever seen is the 89 worlds. Still got it on VHS somewhere....I need to get the DVD.

I was a GL fan for sure, and his exploits is what interested me in the sport originally. I still am a fan of his racing, and I respect and totally support his fight against LA over the business interests.

But I find it a stretch to buy the cleanliness BS when he competed against the like of Hinault, Fignon, Delgado. But that is OK, the playing field was even IMO and he was the best when healthy. I am consistent in my arguments inre to the level playing field, unlike some who toss it aside to suit the prejudices and to keep the battle lines clear. "Thinking" is much easier under those terms.

I also think (know) PED's like roids give a great benefit, expecially in a time where no OOC testing took place, and that little fact is conveniently dismissed in here by GL fanboys that haven't a clue of what they are talking about. I also didn't care to the slag rag CN gave him last year.

I also don't buy the clueless act about LA until coincidentally LA won 3 in a row. I really don't care to get into this very deep because anybody can search my last posts before my 6 month ban, and see Digger and I going on about this. I log back in to post a link about how long LA's physiological numbers have been known (since 96 I believe) that GL just "discovered" in July 2001, and I am banned.

So, I think maybe I was getting a little too close to the myth in that thread and I may be doing it now, so I will stop right about now.

 

[ultimobici]

So Le Mond rode clean while most if not all of his main rivals doped. Yeah I believe that.....yawn. Just like I believe Lance is innocent.....yawn.

Suggest you read up on the differences in doping pre/post-EPO. Absolutely possible to win big prior to EPO as speed, testosterone & cortisone were not even in the same league as EPO in their benefits.

If Lemond had doped, don't you think that there would be at least one person from his era who would be prepared to call him out on his public stance on doping?

 

[ChrisE]

So Le Mond rode clean while most if not all of his main rivals doped. Yeah I believe that.....yawn. Just like I believe Lance is innocent.....yawn.

Is English your 8th language? Does the word "lemond" look like "hampsten" to you? Those two words are not even close. WTH?

I was responding to the guy that said EPO didn't start until 95 or 96, which is completely wrong. EPO use started and was in full swing when Hampsten was still riding, and placing in GT's and winning mountain stages 1 day after 160 miles to Sestriere.

 

[ChrisE]

I guess reading things closely before responding is something I assume everybody does. I have to do that because of my job, else millions of dollars and human issues are at stake. I am frequently disappointed in here.

What we got here is a guy confusing GL with AH, and then another assuming that guy was saying GL was dirty, when he was obviously being sarcastic.

Whose on first? lol.

 

[ultimobici]

No problem. The greatest race I have ever seen is the 89 worlds. Still got it on VHS somewhere....I need to get the DVD.

I was a GL fan for sure, and his exploits is what interested me in the sport originally. I still am a fan of his racing, and I respect and totally support his fight against LA over the business interests.

But I find it a stretch to buy the cleanliness BS when he competed against the like of Hinault, Fignon, Delgado. But that is OK, the playing field was even IMO and he was the best when healthy. I am consistent in my arguments inre to the level playing field, unlike some who toss it aside to suit the prejudices and to keep the battle lines clear. "Thinking" is much easier under those terms.

I also think (know) PED's like roids give a great benefit, expecially in a time where no OOC testing took place, and that little fact is conveniently dismissed in here by GL fanboys that haven't a clue of what they are talking about. I also didn't care to the slag rag CN gave him last year.

I also don't buy the clueless act about LA until coincidentally LA won 3 in a row. I really don't care to get into this very deep because anybody can search my last posts before my 6 month ban, and see Digger and I going on about this. I log back in to post a link about how long LA's physiological numbers have been known (since 96 I believe) that GL just "discovered" in July 2001, and I am banned.

So, I think maybe I was getting a little too close to the myth in that thread and I may be doing it now, so I will stop right about now.

The OOC point is fair, but in the 10 years since GL commented on LA & Ferrari the only person to allege Lemond took PEDs was Armstrong. Not a single solitary soul has come out and said anything even approaching accusing him of being a hypocrite? Very strange indeed.

 

[Yeahright]

I guess reading things closely before responding is something I assume everybody does. I have to do that because of my job, else millions of dollars and human issues are at stake. I am frequently disappointed in here.

What we got here is a guy confusing GL with AH, and then another assuming that guy was saying GL was dirty, when he was obviously being sarcastic.

Whose on first? lol.

"Millions of dollars and human issues" = Hey I think I will 'big note' and let everyone know what an important guy I am, then they will think my opinion has greater gravitas and that i am just pandering to the plebs.

 

[Yeahright]

Suggest you read up on the differences in doping pre/post-EPO. Absolutely possible to win big prior to EPO as speed, testosterone & cortisone were not even in the same league as EPO in their benefits.

If Lemond had doped, don't you think that there would be at least one person from his era who would be prepared to call him out on his public stance on doping?

Tell me, who called Fignon out??

Also I am not debating the relative differences in performance pre and post EPO so why bring that in to the discussion?

 

[ultimobici]

Tell me, who called Fignon out??

Also I am not debating the relative differences in performance pre and post EPO so why bring that in to the discussion?

Read your own post, mate!

So Le Mond rode clean while most if not all of his main rivals doped. Yeah I believe that.

Fignon was nowhere near as vocal in his comments and never publicly & overtly anti-doping. Lemond was, hence my comment.

 

[ChrisE]

The OOC point is fair, but in the 10 years since GL commented on LA & Ferrari the only person to allege Lemond took PEDs was Armstrong. Not a single solitary soul has come out and said anything even approaching accusing him of being a hypocrite? Very strange indeed.

The 80's were a time before the internet blew up, and the information age really took off. I think it was easier for "rumors" or anybody's actions to stay under the radar during that time.

If Delgado hadn't gotten busted for that masking agent in 88 would any "solitary soul" accuse him? What about Hinault?

But, what people say or think they know about firsthand knowledge is of no use to me, and easily dismissed by me. People close to me don't know some of the wild crap I pull in my life, so I guess that means I have lived like an angel, right? Woo-hoooo, nothing to see here unless you actually see it lol.

My reasoning is completely circumstantial because I know the benefits of roids. You toss them aside like they are a no-doz level PED. Yet, they are still a major part of a PED regimen even today. TH and FL admitted use of roids, even accusations of LA taking them in the early/mid 90's AFTER epo arrived is now on record.

The motivations for downplaying the effects of PED's other than EPO in here is as plain to see to me as the back of my hand. What I find ammusing in here is the amount of foolishness you guys go thru to twist yourself out of that spot while dividing up the cowboys and indians in this little game. Keep up the good work.

 

[ChrisE]

"Millions of dollars and human issues" = Hey I think I will 'big note' and let everyone know what an important guy I am, then they will think my opinion has greater gravitas and that i am just pandering to the plebs.

*** edited by mod ***

Apparently you hit your 10% mark with your reply about GL when I was talking about Hampsten. Maybe your next 9 posts will be spot on. Good luck.

 

[skippythepinhead]

'*** edited by mod ***

Apparently you hit your 10% mark with your reply about GL when I was talking about Hampsten. Maybe your next 9 posts will be spot on. Good luck.

Greg was right.

And six months wasn't long enough.

 

[patricknd]

No problem. The greatest race I have ever seen is the 89 worlds. Still got it on VHS somewhere....I need to get the DVD.

I was a GL fan for sure, and his exploits is what interested me in the sport originally. I still am a fan of his racing, and I respect and totally support his fight against LA over the business interests.

But I find it a stretch to buy the cleanliness BS when he competed against the like of Hinault, Fignon, Delgado. But that is OK, the playing field was even IMO and he was the best when healthy. I am consistent in my arguments inre to the level playing field, unlike some who toss it aside to suit the prejudices and to keep the battle lines clear. "Thinking" is much easier under those terms.

I also think (know) PED's like roids give a great benefit, expecially in a time where no OOC testing took place, and that little fact is conveniently dismissed in here by GL fanboys that haven't a clue of what they are talking about. I also didn't care to the slag rag CN gave him last year.

I also don't buy the clueless act about LA until coincidentally LA won 3 in a row. I really don't care to get into this very deep because anybody can search my last posts before my 6 month ban, and see Digger and I going on about this. I log back in to post a link about how long LA's physiological numbers have been known (since 96 I believe) that GL just "discovered" in July 2001, and I am banned.

So, I think maybe I was getting a little too close to the myth in that thread and I may be doing it now, so I will stop right about now.

don't tell me you doubt the magic "iron" shots

 

[ChrisE]

Greg was right.

And six months wasn't long enough.

Yes, Greg was right about LA's drug use. Stop the presses....you are as smart as him. Good for you.

You want me gone because I point out the obvious that makes you squirm and points out your hypocrisy. You cannot address my points so you whine about my posting.

 

[ChrisE]

don't tell me you doubt the magic "iron" shots

Hi Patrick. I'm disappointed you didn't post the stuff Glenn sent you. We figured you had the longest rope here in terms of getting banned. I was willing to buy you all the alcohol you could drink for a 1 month period if you posted those. But, oh well I guess you have your reasons. Maybe you should send them to Susan for clearance before you post them.

No, I believe he was iron deficient. He also got shot, which would screw up anybody's day. His 89 season was an inspiration to me since that is the first year I started racing cat 4. With no internet the only TdF results I could get was the Houston Post blurb at the end of the sports sectione very day. He was, and still is, a hero to me in sporting terms.

 

[andy1234]

The 80's were a time before the internet blew up, and the information age really took off. I think it was easier for "rumors" or anybody's actions to stay under the radar during that time.

If Delgado hadn't gotten busted for that masking agent in 88 would any "solitary soul" accuse him? What about Hinault?

But, what people say or think they know about firsthand knowledge is of no use to me, and easily dismissed by me. People close to me don't know some of the wild crap I pull in my life, so I guess that means I have lived like an angel, right? Woo-hoooo, nothing to see here unless you actually see it lol.

My reasoning is completely circumstantial because I know the benefits of roids. You toss them aside like they are a no-doz level PED. Yet, they are still a major part of a PED regimen even today. TH and FL admitted use of roids, even accusations of LA taking them in the early/mid 90's AFTER epo arrived is now on record.

The motivations for downplaying the effects of PED's other than EPO in here is as plain to see to me as the back of my hand. What I find ammusing in here is the amount of foolishness you guys go thru to twist yourself out of that spot while dividing up the cowboys and indians in this little game. Keep up the good work.

Good post.

Add cortisone into that equation too.
It was THE drug if choice from Merckx onwards, almost undetectable in natural form and extremely effective.

One of the major effects of long term cortisine abuse is soft tissue injuries due to its scavanging nature (lots of knee injuries in the eighties compared to now) and weight gain when stopping its use.

Plenty of riders were plagued by both.

 

[Race Radio]

Always the same, LeMond doped because well, he just had to have doped, no evidence but yeah he definitely doped. Not one teammate, DS, or support staff says he did.

Posters seem to ignore the people in the know like Laurent Fignon who said it was possible to win clean in the 80s even though he doped himself.

Like Willy Voet who said there were clean top riders like Charly Mottet despite naming countless people who did dope.

Like Paul Koechli, who ran a clean team in Helvetia/La Suiise without any needles and said LeMond won the Tour clean. Before people say that was because he was his manager, Koechli never said Hinault won the tour clean and he was his manager too. Bernard Tapie, owner of the team said the only guys he knew that definitely didnt dope were LeMond and Bauer, not Hinault, not Bernard.

Like Peter Winnen who says it was possible to win clean in the 80s but everything changed with EPO. And it was not 1990. Most rider say the big change happened in 1992, 93, 94. Lemond was falling off the back by then., If he was on EPO nobody could hang with him.

Just like the entire Russian national team could not drop him at the Coors classic the trolls have zero evidence he doped.

 

[skippythepinhead]

Yes, Greg was right about LA's drug use. Stop the presses....you are as smart as him. Good for you.
in
You want me gone because I point out the obvious that makes you squirm and points out your hypocrisy. You cannot address my points so you whine about my posting.

I think you're still trying to figure out what your point should be now that there is no room to defend the indefensible. I only think you should be gone because your job is so important and I'm worried that someone may die if you are given the chance to post your insulting nonsense further.

 

[ChrisE]

Always the same, LeMond doped because well, he just had to have doped, no evidence but yeah he definitely doped. Not one teammate, DS, or support staff says he did.

Reread my posts, closely this time, about how I don't give a rat's *** about what people think they know. They don't live with him, just like people don't live with me and know what I am up to.

Posters seem to ignore the people in the know like Laurent Fignon who said it was possible to win clean in the 80s even though he doped himself.

He said that? Well what kind of idiot is Fignon? Why take the chance on getting caught, especially since the PED's at that time offered little or no benefit to world class cyclists?

It's like I can get drunk by looking at this lamp, but I'm gonna go spend $ on a case of bud light and drive around in my car tossing cans out. What an idiotic statement by Fignon, and I express surprise you would post such a thing lol.

Like Willy Voet who said there were clean top riders like Charly Mottet despite naming countless people who did dope.

Like Paul Koechli, who ran a clean team in Helvetia/La Suiise without any needles and said LeMond won the Tour clean. Before people say that was because he was his manager, Koechli never said Hinault won the tour clean and he was his manager too. Bernard Tapie, owner of the team said the only guys he knew that definitely didnt dope were LeMond and Bauer, not Hinault, not Bernard.

Again, see my post about how people know what. I may have had a wild party with barnyard animals in my house last night, but my neighbor doesn't know. This "proof" trotted out by the GL fanboy trolls, based purely upon opinion and what people claim they know, when they really don't know anything, is getting boring. Is this all you have? You sound like a broken record.

Like Peter Winnen who says it was possible to win clean in the 80s but everything changed with EPO. And it was not 1990. Most rider say the big change happened in 1992, 93, 94. Lemond was falling off the back by then., If he was on EPO nobody could hang with him.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Huh....snort....cough. Wake me when you are thru with the "opinions" of others. Thanks.

But, you do prove my point about Hampsten, who was still thriving in 92 and 93, and you prove my point that gregod is clueless about when EPO started. Thank you RR. Prepare to get flamed....not. You provide a valuable resource for knowledge, but that knowledge seems to have a vast pipeline. We can't let the RR fanboys know this, of course.

Just like the entire Russian national team could not drop him at the Coors classic the trolls have zero evidence he doped.

So, you are saying the doped up Russian team couldn't drop the clean GL? Is the russian team a doped up Delgado, Fignon, and Hinault? Maybe there are pix around showing a doped up turtle unable to drop a hare to lend more credence to your point.

 

[skippythepinhead]

*** edited by mod ***

 

[ChrisE]

*** edited by mod ***

 

[Race Radio]

*** edited by mod ***

 

[richwagmn]

Watch EBay for a flood of used Wreks. Wouldn't be caught dead on one.

Dave.

So everyone in cycling was doping. All pro teams are/were sponsored by major bicycle manufacturers. Therefore, all major bicycle manufacturers are to be avoided. That's your logic right? Or are you singling out Trek?

 

[ChrisE]

Sorry to see Chris is not in a good mood....how about a nice picture to cheer you up?

You should be in a bad mood as well. The world is ending today.

I made a point to stand on the champs and take a pic from the same place as that one was taken. I was trying to find it but I can't.

I actually prefer this pic, though.