Hamilton implicates Weltz

[sniper]

Perhaps the thread is premature as I and many other posters haven't yet read Hamilton's actual statements. But still, this is eyebrow-raising stuff and obviously food for Garmin critics.

This is too effing funny... Weltz - who says he left CSC because he suspected something was wrong and didn't like the people hanging around - is being named by Tyler as an EPO courier...

Oh my, dear old hypocrisy. Weltz who have just been after Riis is according to Tylers book not much better himself:

http://www.sporten.dk/cykling/tyler-anklager-ny-dansk-sportsdirektoer
(in danish so use whatever translation tool u prefer)

Increasingly interesting in light of Waltz pro-Pharmstrong tirade a couple of months ago. Recall Farrar after stage four of the Tour of Qatar:

When asked if team tactics played a part in how the stage finished, Farrar was blunt, “You’ll have to ask Weltz that, if he can get his head out of Armstrong’s *** long enough,” in reference to Directeur Sportif Johnny Weltz’ pro-Armstrong rant after the long-running federal investigation was closed by U.S. Attorney André Birotte on Friday.
http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/02/farrar-blasts-garmin-barracuda-signings-and-team-tactics/

Meanwhile, I caught this interesting discussion over at the sherdog(?) discussion board where JV is standing up for Weltz

....
Poster: Personally, I'm worried that this may not be coming across to your riders and staff properly the way you're telling them the story. With things like those tweets by Talansky, the kind of stuff Weltz said or the whole White/Lowe/Del Moral fiasco, you have to wonder, how many at Garmin do not really share your views, and are those views coming across properly?

JV1973:
Lance is a much more intimidating person than I am. If I disagree with you, I say it to you, calmly, and explain my point. Sometimes these guys are more driven by fear than logic. The message is getting through, but they still don't want to publicly say a cross word re Lance. Why? Do you like hate mail? They don't either...

Let me put it to you more simply: Johnny Weltz got demoted at USPS because of Lance. What do you think JOhnny really feels?
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?p=73235937

Can Weltz' former activities as an EPO courier be apologized under the same umbrella ("Lance bullied him into it")?
Should Garmin re-justify its choice to hire Weltz?

 

[roundabout]

1. I wouldn't bet the farm on sporten whatsoever getting it right and will wait for another source to confirm it (RR?)

1.a the byline how Riis was unable to keep up with USPS is hilarious and says it all

2. cyclismas is parody and not serious

 

[Jaskula]

Regarding Weltz' legacy and his selfproclaimed anti-doping stance at CSC, it must be remembered that he - according to his own self laudatory statements - was solely responsible for bringing JaJa to CSC in 2001. That was a big step for the team up the cycling hierarchy and down the slippery slope of dope.

/J

 

[Cimber]

1.a the byline how Riis was unable to keep up with USPS is hilarious and says it all

Guess the translation tool messed it up, cos what it actually says is the other way around: that back then (1997) Hamilton and USP found it hard to keep up with riders like Riis

It also says that the real reason Weltz left USP wasnt cos he wasnt ready for the "full doping package" as has been said earlier, but simply cos he wassed organized enough for Lance's liking and he messed up seom hotel reservation.

All this doesnt mean he didnt clean up his act before join Garmin, but it does make him like like a hipocrite after his comments about Riis and CSC (if this is all true. Maybe the newspaper got it wrong or Hamilton did)

 

[hrotha]

That discussion over at Sherdog was copied/pasted from the Clinic. In fact, *I* am the mysterious Poster.

As for Weltz, I'll wait till I get the book, but I expect many people from US Postal and CSC will have a lot of explaining to do.

 

[roundabout]

Regarding Weltz' legacy and his selfproclaimed anti-doping stance at CSC, it must be remembered that he - according to his own self laudatory statements - was solely responsible for bringing JaJa to CSC in 2001. That was a big step for the team up the cycling hierarchy and down the slippery slope of dope.

/J

I doubt he could have signed Jalabert without the boss giving his final approval. So.

 

[JPM London]

All this doesnt mean he didnt clean up his act before join Garmin, but it does make him like like a hipocrite after his comments about Riis and CSC (if this is all true. Maybe the newspaper got it wrong or Hamilton did)

If he did clean up his act before CSC he would only be partially hypocritical

That discussion over at Sherdog was copied/pasted from the Clinic. In fact, *I* am the mysterious Poster.

Ah, I thought it looked quite recognisable and thought for a short moment that JV was active on several boards using the same posts for convenience...

 

[Jaskula]

I doubt he could have signed Jalabert without the boss giving his final approval. So.

Obviously not ('brought him' = 'convinced him'), but that doesn't really affect my point on JW's past and current hypocrisy.

/J

 

[Fidolix]

All teams did it, everybody did it, what the hell is the news, why start blaming Riis and CSC when everybody else did it, only difference is Riis finally admitted he did, Lance still denies it, Riis is not a bully, he just did what everybody did, and since UCI was in on it, so why not. It was easy, it was easy to hide and EVERYBODY did it, and its years ago.

The real issue here is UCI, no doubt they were actively involved, took bribes, hided evidence, sat on their fat azzes and cheered on so UCI could get the sponsors, the public and the money in own pockets to buy hookers and keep the party going, see that's the real hypocrites.

But no no, lets waste our time on some DS and his team and forget where the real problem is, and STILL is, and it´s incredible to think that the same boss is still sitting in the same chair pulling the strings, and doing the exact same things he and verhooker did then.

But ok, lets waste our time on old news.

 

[Benotti69]

All teams did it, everybody did it, what the hell is the news, why start blaming Riis and CSC when everybody else did it, only difference is Riis finally admitted he did, Lance still denies it, Riis is not a bully, he just did what everybody did, and since UCI was in on it, so why not. It was easy, it was easy to hide and EVERYBODY did it, and its years ago.

The real issue here is UCI, no doubt they were actively involved, took bribes, hided evidence, sat on their fat azzes and cheered on so UCI could get the sponsors, the public and the money in own pockets to buy hookers and keep the party going, see that's the real hypocrites.

But no no, lets waste our time on some DS and his team and forget where the real problem is, and STILL is, and it´s incredible to think that the same boss is still sitting in the same chair pulling the strings, and doing the exact same things he and verhooker did then.

But ok, lets waste our time on old news.

yeah Riis confessed as a rider to doping, before he was outed for doping, but is he now sending riders to doping doctors when he is accused of sending Hamilton and Jaksche?. Is that not relevant. I think so.

There is aUCI thread go rant and rave in that about how to change the UCI.

 

[el chava]

All teams did it, everybody did it, what the hell is the news, why start blaming Riis and CSC when everybody else did it, only difference is Riis finally admitted he did, Lance still denies it, Riis is not a bully, he just did what everybody did, and since UCI was in on it, so why not. It was easy, it was easy to hide and EVERYBODY did it, and its years ago.

The real issue here is UCI, no doubt they were actively involved, took bribes, hided evidence, sat on their fat azzes and cheered on so UCI could get the sponsors, the public and the money in own pockets to buy hookers and keep the party going, see that's the real hypocrites.

But no no, lets waste our time on some DS and his team and forget where the real problem is, and STILL is, and it´s incredible to think that the same boss is still sitting in the same chair pulling the strings, and doing the exact same things he and verhooker did then.

But ok, lets waste our time on old news.

But not everybody (over)did it. See the IM conversation between Andreu and Vaughters, for instance. :

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis/instantmessage.html

 

[hrotha]

All teams did it, everybody did it, what the hell is the news, why start blaming Riis and CSC when everybody else did it, only difference is Riis finally admitted he did, Lance still denies it, Riis is not a bully, he just did what everybody did, and since UCI was in on it, so why not. It was easy, it was easy to hide and EVERYBODY did it, and its years ago.

The real issue here is UCI, no doubt they were actively involved, took bribes, hided evidence, sat on their fat azzes and cheered on so UCI could get the sponsors, the public and the money in own pockets to buy hookers and keep the party going, see that's the real hypocrites.

But no no, lets waste our time on some DS and his team and forget where the real problem is, and STILL is, and it´s incredible to think that the same boss is still sitting in the same chair pulling the strings, and doing the exact same things he and verhooker did then.

But ok, lets waste our time on old news.

Riis and Weltz doing that kind of thing within SOL limits IS current events and should be punished if proven.

 

[Animal]

all teams did it, everybody did it, what the hell is the news, why start blaming riis and csc when everybody else did it, only difference is riis finally admitted he did, lance still denies it, riis is not a bully, he just did what everybody did, and since uci was in on it, so why not. It was easy, it was easy to hide and everybody did it, and its years ago.

The real issue here is uci, no doubt they were actively involved, took bribes, hided evidence, sat on their fat azzes and cheered on so uci could get the sponsors, the public and the money in own pockets to buy hookers and keep the party going, see that's the real hypocrites.

But no no, lets waste our time on some ds and his team and forget where the real problem is, and still is, and it´s incredible to think that the same boss is still sitting in the same chair pulling the strings, and doing the exact same things he and verhooker did then.

But ok, lets waste our time on old news.

ssdd.

67890

 

[Fidolix]

Riis and Weltz doing that kind of thing within SOL limits IS current events and should be punished if proven.

Comon hrotha, then punish the whole circus, every team, every rider, it would only be fair, don´t be so naive and think this was something special at CSC and US postal, it was the same in every team, just look at the evidence at Fuentes, how many bags did they find?

Don´t be a hypocrit just because Tyler writes a book about what was and still is obvious for all, and has been for years, we all knew it, we still know it, Tyler is broke and needs the money, don´t forget how many times he was caught, don´t forget his lame excuses when he was, he got caught, what would have happend if he wasn´t?
You seriously think this book would ever have hit the streets?
No way!!
Stop the hypocrisme, stop seeing this book as the ultimate book of doping, infact he already screewed up with some of his statements, one time he says Riis introduced him doping, in another interview he states it was Armstrong long before his time with Riis.

I have no doubt his info is correct a long way, but don´t mistake his motives, I mean, it´s not like the money goes to charity, and sensations do sell better, much better.

 

[hrotha]

Punish everybody who can be lawfully punished (ie. those whose transgressions fall within the SOL). Hamilton's motives are irrelevant, what matters is whether what he says is true.

The rest of your post is utter BS.

 

[Fidolix]

But not everybody (over)did it. See the IM conversation between Andreu and Vaughters, for instance. :

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/indepth/landis/instantmessage.html

And how could we know that?
I bet this was common for all teams, otherwise there was no need to ride, you would ride in the second leauge, pro continental vs pro team, you would lose every race. And funny, nobody did, they all got their fair share of wins.

 

[Fidolix]

Punish everybody who can be lawfully punished (ie. those whose transgressions fall within the SOL). Hamilton's motives are irrelevant, what matters is whether what he says is true.

The rest of your post is utter BS.

You think his motives is irrelevant?

Oh dear, no wonder this planet is a mess.
And of course you in a positon to judge if what he says is the truth.

BS? Thanks mate, you just gave my faith back that idiots exists everywhere on the internet.

 

[JPM London]

"Weltz refuses, however, that he should have acted as a drug supplier in his time at U.S. Postal.
- It is unbelievable. What should I say? It is absurd, says Weltz to sporten.dk who have spoken with the current Garmin-Sharp team manager before the start of Wednesday's stage of the Vuelta a España."

Obviously either Tyler or Weltz is lying - unless (unlikely) Tyler has simply misunderstood the situation with the white bag.

As they're both form USPS's and the situation is from the good old USPS days and Weltz current boss is - likewise - a former USPS, I'm now quite curious to hear what JV makes of this...

 

[JPM London]

You think his motives is irrelevant?

Oh dear, no wonder this planet is a mess.
And of course you in a positon to judge if what he says is the truth.

BS? Thanks mate, you just gave my faith back that idiots exists everywhere on the internet.

Look, Fido, it's not hrota's fault that Riis is in trouble.
It quite clearly bugs you that this is happening, but - again - it's not hrotha's fault.

I strongly suggest you keep to the topic. For one you're getting aggressive and personal beyond what is acceptable in here. Secondly you sound as silly as any LA apologist...

 

[hrotha]

You think his motives is irrelevant?

Oh dear, no wonder this planet is a mess.
And of course you in a positon to judge if what he says is the truth.

BS? Thanks mate, you just gave my faith back that idiots exists everywhere on the internet.

Yes, his motives are irrelevant. Manzano was being a vindictive ***, but he was telling the truth, and his revelations brought about Puerto.

I'm in no position to judge if what he says is the truth and haven't said anything to make you reach that conclusion, but parts of what he says are consistent with that others have said, and the rest has only been denied by the people directly accused by him. What I've been saying is that this calls for a proper investigation.

 

[sniper]

+1(...)
As they're both form USPS's and the situation is from the good old USPS days and Weltz current boss is - likewise - a former USPS, I'm now quite curious to hear what JV makes of this...

Will JV do a Brailsford and announce an "investigation into his past"?

 

[DominicDecoco]

I have to say I did chuckle a bit reading this today from Weltz interview yesterday.
http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1819811.ece

- These data are so detailed that at some point you will have to go out and explain yourself.

- And here we have an instance, the UCI, that has to go in and look at how all the things that have been published lately stick together and then they must consider the situation, says Johnny Weltz

- I did not like the set around team back then which is why my relationship also distanced, says Johnny Weltz

He thought he could get ahead of things with these statements. Just like Arvesen and Piil who said pretty much the same things - obviously, again, out of own interests only.

 

[Cookster15]

All teams did it, everybody did it, what the hell is the news, why start blaming Riis and CSC when everybody else did it, only difference is Riis finally admitted he did, Lance still denies it, Riis is not a bully, he just did what everybody did, and since UCI was in on it, so why not. It was easy, it was easy to hide and EVERYBODY did it, and its years ago.

Yes everyone did it but not to the same extent. There was no level playing field, not when Riis was riding, not during Lance's reign and not even now (e.g. Sky). Are you saying Riis of 1996 was on the same juice as Riis of 1993? I hope not! In 93 he was making up the GC numbers. In 96 his veins were popping out of his head and he became a TT animal. It was obvious just watching on TV who was the most juiced up. Indurain looked soft by comparison. I know we are talking Riis the manager not Riis the rider but his history tells the story of his character - a leopard does not change its spots.

Fans with your attitude is one good reason this sport is in trouble - not because authorities like USADA or ex riders like Hamilton finally find the gumption to do what is right. To the outside world cycling looks bad no matter what we think goes on in football and other sports. We can't live in a cocoon on the CN forums. Lance was 'years ago' too. You let dopers and their collaborators off just because it was 'years ago' and you encourage more doping it's a simple as that. Zero tolerance of doping and continuous improvement in testing is the only way forward. Otherwise I suggest you might be better off watching WWE.

 

[roundabout]

Nice job pitting Weltz and Hamilton against each other.

Hope it still blows up in Riis face.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Will JV do a Brailsford and announce an "investigation into his past"?

On the other hand, it could be Weltz was part of the Armstrong USADA withness list.

Plot thickens.