Hamilton implicates Weltz

[hrotha]

I have not read JV or Weltz confirm that Weltz talked to USADA/WADA.

Have you?

Nope. I asked him a question about his riders and WADA but he didn't answer.

 

[glassmoon]

there is ONE thing that is SAD about all those "past" dopers and their "book-confessions": the cheaters earn TWICE!!!
1. they earned big money when racing with help of doping
2. they earn money by selling the books/interviews when confessing that they were f*cking cheaters!

they should be sanctioned for all money they've earned by cheating. also, isn't it against the law when you claim profit by cheating/lying?

- i mean, it's good to know truth... but come on, there should be consequences. now you can see the cheaters/liars as a successful team managers, etc. that's just wrong.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

there is ONE thing that is SAD about all those "past" dopers and their "book-confessions": the cheaters earn TWICE!!!
1. they earned big money when racing with help of doping
2. they earn money by selling the books/interviews when confessing that they were f*cking cheaters!

they should be sanctioned for all money they've earned by cheating. also, isn't it against the law when you claim profit by cheating/lying?

- i mean, it's good to know truth... but come on, there should be consequences. now you can see the cheaters/liars as a successful team managers, etc. that's just wrong.

cheating lots, getting away with it and continuing to lie earns a lot more.

Many caught dopers went from riches to rags as a result of being singled out for punishment in a corrupt system, and having no other choice but to lie in the hope of regaining their career.

If their later confessions help us to catch those far richer individuals who were responsible for the corruption and the disease of nigh on compulsory doping I don't begrudge them earning a modest amount from their honesty.

 

[Mongol_Waaijer]

Plus - when evidence suggests the vast majority of riders in a certain era were doping, and some tested positive due to errors or being singled out - is it not hugely unfair to impose financial penalties on those whose lack of means or ability in cheating (or who were made examples of for political reasons) while those more successful at cheating are allowed to enjoy their equally dishonest winnings?

 

[neineinei]

sporten.dk has been talking to Weltz again to ask him about his response after Vaughters sent him an e-mail asking Weltz to explain. Weltz says nothing is changed.

"- Jeg svarede ham, at jeg ikke kan genkende den situation, som bliver beskrevet i bogen. Det ville være uærligt af mig at sige, at det kan jeg godt huske. Det er virkelig ikke sandheden, siger Johnny Weltz."

Google translate
"- I told him that I do not recognize the situation which is described in the book. It would be dishonest of me to say that I remember. It really is not the truth, says Johnny Weltz."

There is also a video clip of an interview in Danish.

http://www.sporten.dk/cykling/tv-weltz-svarer-sin-chef-0

 

[the big ring]

sporten.dk has been talking to Weltz again to ask him about his response after Vaughters sent him an e-mail asking Weltz to explain. Weltz says nothing is changed.

"- Jeg svarede ham, at jeg ikke kan genkende den situation, som bliver beskrevet i bogen. Det ville være uærligt af mig at sige, at det kan jeg godt huske. Det er virkelig ikke sandheden, siger Johnny Weltz."

Google translate
"- I told him that I do not recognize the situation which is described in the book. It would be dishonest of me to say that I remember. It really is not the truth, says Johnny Weltz."

There is also a video clip of an interview in Danish.

http://www.sporten.dk/cykling/tv-weltz-svarer-sin-chef-0

Should be a masterclass in PR handling from JV any day now.

 

[neineinei]

Hamilton: Weltz gave me withe bags with EPO

Hamiltion says Weltz gave him white bags with EPO.

"- Min hvide pose indeholdt epo. Det er alt, hvad jeg kan sige. Jeg husker, at jeg fik en hvid pose med epo fra Johnny Weltz." "- Jeg er ked af det på Johnnys vegne. Men det her er større end Johnny Weltz. Johnny gjorde bare, hvad han blev bedt om at gøre."

"- My white bag contained EPO. This is all I can say. I remember that I got a white bag with EPO from Johnny Weltz." "- I'm sorry on Johnny's behalf. But this is bigger than Johnny Weltz. Johnny only did what he was asked to do." (Google translate)

http://ekstrabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1822190.ece

http://translate.google.no/translat...trabladet.dk/sport/cykling/article1822190.ece (Google translate)

 

[ToreBear]

Either Weltz remembers and is a witness in the postal case, and hence doesn't want to talk now, or he doesn't remember.


Personally I doubt he would lie to protect himself in this case.

I haven't read the book, so I don't know the context. It could well be Hamilton assumes Weltz knew more than he really did.

 

[the asian]

Nope. I asked him a question about his riders and WADA but he didn't answer.

Didn't he say that riders he suspected of doping had to fully confess to WADA/USADA.
He didn't reply whether the support staff had to, though.

 

[JPM London]

I'm thinking it's just down to Weltz being dead-scared of The Boss still...

Whatever he's said or not in the USADA case if he's been interviewed, he's not saying anything in public - even if JV says he should.

 

[hrotha]

Didn't he say that riders he suspected of doping had to fully confess to WADA/USADA.
He didn't reply whether the support staff had to, though.

Yes, but I followed that up with a question about why no Slipstream rider had ever served a reduced suspension. The federal investigation is not a good explanation, since these riders are supposed to have confessed in 2007-2008, and some even later (are we to think the ex-Gerolsteiner guys were always clean?).

 

[the asian]

Yes, but I followed that up with a question about why no Slipstream rider had ever served a reduced suspension. The federal investigation is not a good explanation, since these riders are supposed to have confessed in 2007-2008, and some even later (are we to think the ex-Gerolsteiner guys were always clean?).

Who other than Haussler and Wegmann are ex gero riders? Klier is German but i think he rode for Ulrich's team.
These are the guys I can remember who may be linked to doping, other than the ex USPS guys.

 

[sniper]

http://www.businessweek.com/article...t-s-dot-postal-team-get-charged-with-fraud#p1

Interesting.
In 1996(?) Prentice criticizes the appointment of a reputed drug cheat named Weltz. Yet no problems with Weltz at Garmin? I know, many years have passed, but still.

Steffen complained in faxes to Weisel that he was losing his job because he refused to allow drugs on the team. “What could a Spanish doctor, completely unknown to the organization, offer that I can’t or won’t,” he wrote, referring to his replacement, Ceyala. “Doping is the fairly obvious answer,” he said. He also warned that Johnny Weltz, the newly hired road manager, was a reputed drug cheat

has JV ever given any explanation why he wanted Weltz?

EDIT: On the side: Hamilton implicated Weltz, and he recently deliberately singled out Vaughters as a hypocrit. Is it fair to conclude that Hamilton is not a big Garmin/JV fan?

 

[SundayRider]

Interesting.
In 1996(?) Prentice criticizes the appointment of a reputed drug cheat named Weltz. Yet no problems with Weltz at Garmin? I know, many years have passed, but still.


has JV ever given any explanation why he wanted Weltz?

EDIT: On the side: Hamilton implicated Weltz, and he recently deliberately singled out Vaughters as a hypocrit. Is it fair to conclude that Hamilton is not a big Garmin/JV fan?

I get the feeling there is a mutual dislike between JV and TH.

 

[weeniebeenie]

Interesting.
In 1996(?) Prentice criticizes the appointment of a reputed drug cheat named Weltz. Yet no problems with Weltz at Garmin? I know, many years have passed, but still.


has JV ever given any explanation why he wanted Weltz?

EDIT: On the side: Hamilton implicated Weltz, and he recently deliberately singled out Vaughters as a hypocrit. Is it fair to conclude that Hamilton is not a big Garmin/JV fan?

http://blogs.denverpost.com/sports/...se-jonathan-vaughters-team-garminsharp/23492/

 

[sniper]

http://blogs.denverpost.com/sports/...se-jonathan-vaughters-team-garminsharp/23492/

thanks. I think this speaks volumes about what Hamilton really thinks.

“I think he’s doing a great job,” Hamilton said. “I don’t know anything about the weekly testing but he’s talking the talk and walking the walk. But to be honest, Jonathan Vaughters, it’s not like he has a dormitory with all his riders in it and he has control of all these guys’ lives. He can preach the preach but it’s still up to the rider but I think he’s doing a great job and I totally support him.”

 

[hrotha]

Bolding "talking the talk" as if "walking the walk" didn't go immediately after it.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Bolding "talking the talk" as if "walking the walk" didn't go immediately after it.

Agree, I would have bolded the dormitary part to be fair.

Good reading on Steffen and Weltz. Maybe they have evolved.

 

[sniper]

Bolding "talking the talk" as if "walking the walk" didn't go immediately after it.

the overt message is: "what vaughters says is one story, what his riders do is a completely different story."
the covert message seems: "can't you see through the BS?"

Tyler even managed to state Sky are clean somewhere, but in Garmin's case he's apparently more reserved.

Look, Vaughters is smart, charming, anti-doping, gets along with the media, Walsh likes him, etc. so it's not exactly en vogue to criticize Vaughters. that could be one reason why
Tyler's criticism of Garmin/JV seems mostly covert criticism, implicating Weltz, digging up the 2008 Vuelta story without explicitly naming JV (letting others join the dots).
On the other hand, of course he would probably have implicated Weltz regardless of his sentiments towards Vaughters. And I might be reading too much into it.
And I'm not saying Tyler has someinside intel on Garmin. But it's not farfetched to assume the two don't really like eachother. Tbh, Vaughters 2008 Vuelta action speaks volumes. The acts of a bully and of a hypocrit. If I were Tyler, i'd not be very forgiving either.

 

[131313]

the overt message is: "what vaughters says is one story, what his riders do is a completely different story."
the covert message seems: "can't you see through the BS?"

Your interpretation of that phrase, and the selective bolding of the text show that you simply look objectively at anything related to JV. You can claim to the contrary, but it's pretty obvious to anyone who can read.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

And I might be reading too much into it.

In this case you are sluipschutter.

The only thing Hamilton says is Vaughters has no 24/7 look on his riders and therefore can't be 100% sure his riders are clean. As no one can.

The most interesting thing to me is whether Steffen and Weltz have reconciled,. The big old doper of 1996 versus the anti doping doc.
Perhaps Weltz has seen the light.

 

[coinneach]

the overt message is: "what vaughters says is one story, what his riders do is a completely different story."
the covert message seems: "can't you see through the BS?"

Tyler even managed to state Sky are clean somewhere, but in Garmin's case he's apparently more reserved.

Look, Vaughters is smart, charming, anti-doping, gets along with the media, Walsh likes him, etc. so it's not exactly en vogue to criticize Vaughters. that could be one reason why
Tyler's criticism of Garmin/JV seems mostly covert criticism, implicating Weltz, digging up the 2008 Vuelta story without explicitly naming JV (letting others join the dots).
On the other hand, of course he would probably have implicated Weltz regardless of his sentiments towards Vaughters. And I might be reading too much into it.
And I'm not saying Tyler has someinside intel on Garmin. But it's not farfetched to assume the two don't really like eachother. Tbh, Vaughters 2008 Vuelta action speaks volumes. The acts of a bully and of a hypocrit. If I were Tyler, i'd not be very forgiving either.

What??? Calling Hamilton a client of Fuentes? Whats hypocritical about that

 

[SundayRider]

What??? Calling Hamilton a client of Fuentes? Whats hypocritical about that

The fact that JV doped too.

 

[sniper]

What??? Calling Hamilton a client of Fuentes? Whats hypocritical about that

What JV did is like pulling somebody's pants down in front of an audience.
Typical bully stuff.

If I'm not mistaken, JV hadn't come clean himself yet at the time.
Oh, and half of Garmin consists of ex-dopers. Perhaps JV was just trying to be funny, but I can't blame Tyler for calling it hypocricy.

 

[sniper]

In this case you are sluipschutter.

The most interesting thing to me is wheter Steffen and Weltz have recognciled, or how does that spell. The big old doper of 1996 versus the anti doping doc.
Perhaps Weltz has seen the light.

agreed.
Does anybody know who came first at Garmin, Weltz or Prentice?

Who recommended Weltz to JV? Or did JV himself have good experiences with Weltz? What kind of experiences? etc.
Some transparency would be welcome here.