Has doping harmed YOUR health?

[joe_papp]

I'm not making fun - I think he's a *******.

Joe...I find it interesting that you're making fun of this guy becasue he's a Category 4 racer. It's as if you're saying Pro dopers should be held in higher regard.

I don't think so. I think you and all other dopers, regardless of category, age, ability or goals should be put into the same category. Cheaters.

Maybe the clean Pros consider you a "Fred".

I'm not making fun of him at all.

I think he's an *** for doping himself for a year, and racing his bike during that period, knowing full well that what he was doing was illegal in a sporting context - especially given his familiarity with everything wrong w/ and terrible about doping. That he did it to create content for a book that he's selling for profit...

 

[LastRide]

I could give a rats *** about whether a doper is now unhealthy.. They chose the risk when they assessed the reward to be worth their health years ago.

The sad thing i think is when you see their children effed up. Would love to know the stats of pro cyclists children with health problems and learning difficulties because the "old man" wanted to be a cycling celebrity and have his ego stroked for a few years.

Guess the pain of watching your kids struggle every day of their life wasnt something they thought about in whole decision making process.

Perhaps they need to make that a focus of the fight against doping.

 

[compete_clean]

The sad thing i think is when you see their children effed up. Would love to know the stats of pro cyclists children with health problems and learning difficulties because the "old man" wanted to be a cycling celebrity and have his ego stroked for a few years.

are you thinking of someone specific, is that why you bring this up? back in '98 I saw the kid of someone i used to race with who was known to be a heavy doper and when i looked at his kid that was the first thing that popped into my mind> I thought the kid looked a little odd.

 

[laziali]

I could give a rats *** about whether a doper is now unhealthy.. They chose the risk when they assessed the reward to be worth their health years ago.

The sad thing i think is when you see their children effed up. Would love to know the stats of pro cyclists children with health problems and learning difficulties because the "old man" wanted to be a cycling celebrity and have his ego stroked for a few years.

Guess the pain of watching your kids struggle every day of their life wasnt something they thought about in whole decision making process.

Perhaps they need to make that a focus of the fight against doping.

Bold bit. That's why I put "YOUR health" in the title of my OP

 

[joe_papp]

I could give a rats *** about whether a doper is now unhealthy.. They chose the risk when they assessed the reward to be worth their health years ago....

Isn't the point of the thread to address those whose own health has been harmed by doping?

 

[Darryl Webster]

Isn't the point of the thread to address those whose own health has been harmed by doping?

Im interested in your phrase "jumped the Shark" Joe.
Are you saying, as I think you are, that doping is now more commen in the lower rankings than before?.
Logic would tell thats absalutly the case. The availability of knowledge and substances the internet has brought "pro quality" to the mass`s.
I know far, far more about doping than I ever knew in the 80`s thanks to forums like this and the links I`ve read.
Other forums regulerly have threads about suplements that stray close to the line and its clear that peeps in lower cats with money in there pockets and Ego`s to feed will stop at little to gain an advantage.
When a rider of no higher than club leval is investing upwards of a £1000 in Wind Tunnal time and his bike is worth the price of a small car then its not hard to imagine the nest step isnt so difficult.
My physical health never suffered cus of doping cus I never doped but my mental health took a battering knowing what I knew.

 

[patricknd]

I'm not making fun of him at all.

I think he's an *** for doping himself for a year, and racing his bike during that period, knowing full well that what he was doing was illegal in a sporting context - especially given his familiarity with everything wrong w/ and terrible about doping. That he did it to create content for a book that he's selling for profit...

He should have sold drugs on the web for profit, because that's not so bad.....

 

[mitchman]

It's only bad if your Cat 4.....if your pro its "So Pro" and all is good.

 

[joe_papp]

It's only bad if your Cat 4.....if your pro its "So Pro" and all is good.

Says you...

 

[Granville57]

Im interested in your phrase "jumped the Shark" Joe.
Are you saying, as I think you are, that doping is now more commen in the lower rankings than before?.

I'm not trying to put words into Joe's mouth, but my take on his "jumping the shark" reference was that the author (Andrew Tilin) had taken doping past the point of absurdity by simply doping and racing so that he could talk about doping and racing. It illustrates just how insane the whole issue of doping has become if someone is doing it just to talk (write) about it. He (the author) is adding a doped rider (himself) into a race, then reflecting on doped riders racing (and charging for his 'insight').

I suppose that would be as clear a sign as any that doping has gone off a cliff...so to speak.

Joe, would you concur?

 

[mountaindew]

With all the advertising (articles) about doping that's been going on in the last 10 years it's no wonder that lower cat's are interested in trying it.
When i strarted i didn't know it existed.

 

[compete_clean]

Are you saying, as I think you are, that doping is now more commen in the lower rankings than before?.

Some of my friends who raced with me but are still involved in local racing tell me that is exactly the case. Mostly people who started at Masters level, or that's what i'm told. I find it nearly impossible to believe but they are adamant it's true with personal direct knowledge.

I know far, far more about doping than I ever knew in the 80`s thanks to forums like this and the links I`ve read.

Join the club. I was s foolish to believe that whatever my teammates were taking didn't even work. Easy to be clueless when you hardly know a word of the local language.

My physical health never suffered cus of doping cus I never doped but my mental health took a battering knowing what I knew.

Amen, except I'm finding my mental health is taking more of a battering now because of what i'm learning only today. I was blissfully ignorant when i raced.

 

[joe_papp]

I'm not trying to put words into Joe's mouth, but my take on his "jumping the shark" reference was that the author (Andrew Tilin) had taken doping past the point of absurdity by simply doping and racing so that he could talk about doping and racing. It illustrates just how insane the whole issue of doping has become if someone is doing it just to talk (write) about it. He (the author) is adding a doped rider (himself) into a race, then reflecting on doped riders racing (and charging for his 'insight').

I suppose that would be as clear a sign as any that doping has gone off a cliff...so to speak.

Joe, would you concur?

Yes.

Thank you for that excellent translation of the meaning of the phrase as I used it. Seriously. PM me - we should collaborate!

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

I'm not making fun of him at all.

I think he's an *** for doping himself for a year, and racing his bike during that period, knowing full well that what he was doing was illegal in a sporting context - especially given his familiarity with everything wrong w/ and terrible about doping. That he did it to create content for a book that he's selling for profit...

another Joe Papp classic

 

[mitchman]

It's not the first time a writer has tried PED's to write about it....LINK

 

[For The World]

I had to chuckle when I read that OutsideOnline article that Amgen was responsible for creating synthetic EPO. Not that that implies that if you race in the Amgen Tour of California you are supplied with EPO, but it just made me laugh.

 

[LastRide]

Bold bit. That's why I put "YOUR health" in the title of my OP

So what? I cant make my own point in a thread?

Plus who wants to hear Papp and the rest of the dirtbags chime in?

 

[JPM London]

So what? I cant make my own point in a thread?

Plus who wants to hear Papp and the rest of the dirtbags chime in?

Well, I do.

Never hurts to hear from people who have actually been there.
Doesn't mean you have to idolise them. Doesn't mean you have to kick them while down either. I personally like to take a leaf out of Bassons and not judge the person behind based on their actions in their cycling career...

I might not have the full story, but from what I do know a guy like Papp has put that behind him and I believe helped the authorities. Obviously it's easy to claim it's all to save his own neck, but again, from what I sense there's clearly a moral dimension to it. Please don't tell me you never set a foot wrong in your life, however just slightly. It's always easier to take other people down and it's dead easy venting your frustrations on the interweb of all places. Personally I'd prefer my daily problems a million times over those Mr Papp faces - I don't get any satisfaction out of seeing him left in the dirt. It doesn't make things better - it doesn't revert past actions...

 

[JPM London]

Join the club. I was s foolish to believe that whatever my teammates were taking didn't even work. Easy to be clueless when you hardly know a word of the local language.

---

Amen, except I'm finding my mental health is taking more of a battering now because of what i'm learning only today. I was blissfully ignorant when i raced.

I think it's refreshing to read this - it basically means that although there was a "doping community" and a "shared knowledge" or whatever you want to call it, some of you were completely clueless. Does put a limit to how bad it can have been...

 

[laziali]

So what? I cant make my own point in a thread?

Plus who wants to hear Papp and the rest of the dirtbags chime in?

(a) No, there are plenty of other threads for you to make your point. That is why I started this thread - its about forum posters being able to anonymously (or not, if they choose as Joe does) discuss their real experiences. It makes a nice change from the usual speculation.

(b) Me. And the 67 reply writers. And a fair proportion of the 7,304 thread viewers.

OWNED

 

[mountaindew]

Like someone else said before no harm physically but did my head in and hurt others.

 

[mombus]

Matt had a photocopy of the fax to Tyler's wife and it listed 25 different things .. or something like that.

here, I found one of the pages:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iMcBW_-dQV0/Rk2LB0xLyMI/AAAAAAAAAvQ/LlyV3_tn-BI/s1600-h/haven.jpg

"Homona de la Menopausia".... NICE

 

[compete_clean]

I think it's refreshing to read this - it basically means that although there was a "doping community" and a "shared knowledge" or whatever you want to call it, some of you were completely clueless. Does put a limit to how bad it can have been...

I'm not sure I completely understand your posting, but let me clarify something. I did know that drugs were used in cycling.

I had a coach (whom I will not name) that said to me: ' here is the deal. They work. I don't tell you to take them, that is your choice and if you do, i don't want to know anything about it'. This was my guidance.

I knew at least some (if not most) of my teammates were taking something. I was clueless as to how much of an actual effect the drugs had. I had a conversation with one teammate and asked him once: 'do these drugs really help?' to which he replied, 'see him (referring to one of our best riders), he probably doesn't make it 20 kms in the lead group without taking the ****'. I did not know if he was serious or joking.

My shock has been reading about how much of an effect even stimulants can have. I read "rough ride" and "breaking the chain" and both books describe the first time they doped. Surprising to say the least.

 

[davestoller]

I'm not making fun of him at all.

I think he's an *** for doping himself for a year, and racing his bike during that period, knowing full well that what he was doing was illegal in a sporting context - especially given his familiarity with everything wrong w/ and terrible about doping. That he did it to create content for a book that he's selling for profit...

And how is that any different from what you did?

You cheated the whole time you doped and raced, only you weren't an amateur. Right? You knew full well what you did was illegal, in more than a sporting context, and for sure in a sporting context right?

That you did so for profit on line?

But enough about you, I dont believe I have ever heard you describe the impact your doping and separately yur getting caught had on, I dunno, your teammates, your cycling buddies and friends and coaches-not in Turkey or Italy-but here in the US. What about them?

 

[joe_papp]

I dont believe I have ever heard you describe the impact your doping and separately yur getting caught had on, I dunno, your teammates, your cycling buddies and friends and coaches-not in Turkey or Italy-but here in the US. What about them?

You mean the same teammates who introduced me to my first doping doctor, or the ones who helped me obtain doping products in Brazil, and then instructed me on their specific use (since I don't speak Portuguese)? Or the ones who used to supply me with Aranesp? OR the ones who made space in their refrigerator for my perishable medicines? Etc.

But what does any of that have to do w/ the question posed by the OP as a basis for the thread?