Has doping harmed YOUR health?

[BroDeal]

So the take home message is never quit taking the roids and coke?

What I got from it was: Take steroids and boink 18 year olds when you are 65...then drop dead. Maybe not a bad trade off.

 

[online-rider]

So the take home message is never quit taking the roids and coke?

LOL Thats what he would recommend to you. I think the sterpoid abuse led him on to cocaine once he stopped bodybuilding. The guy was so aggressive like literally abusing and wanting to fight anyone and everyone while he was at work. Hilarious

 

[PotentialPro]

I posted a thread just a few hours ago about HGH and other drugs and how it was very prevalent that other illegal ped's and recreational drugs seemed to go with it. This was a true study, not just some newspaper article.

 

[brianf7]

I know a few masters who ride better now that they have had their nuts cut off but a lot of race horses go well after they are gelded.

maybe its the testosterone replacement that dose it.

Its done now so keep a sence of humour or it will kill you. ounce you start taking steroids its for life.

 

[frenchfry]

After the 1998 scandal, Festina attempted to clean house. One of the measures was to bring in a team doctor that had no previous links to the pro cycling world in order to demonstrate a break from the doping scene. She was totally schocked by the fact that the riders were essentially dope addicts, whether PEDs or other "medecines". If I recall correctly, she didn't stay very long as she wasn't comfortable with this new role as a "doctor".

 

[danjo007]

After the 1998 scandal, Festina attempted to clean house. One of the measures was to bring in a team doctor that had no previous links to the pro cycling world in order to demonstrate a break from the doping scene. She was totally schocked by the fact that the riders were essentially dope addicts, whether PEDs or other "medecines". If I recall correctly, she didn't stay very long as she wasn't comfortable with this new role as a "doctor".

i think it was virenque crying too much, she said :"if you cant stop crying like a little girl, i'll be off then!"

 

[joe_papp]

What's your take on this?

This has developed into a really compelling thread. Good call.
I've been waiting for the appropriate thread to drop this article into. This seems like a good place.

From Outside Magazine 2003


Very interesting read.
http://outsideonline.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html

This is the guy who wrote me up/down in Outside...and he's back w/ a book about his life as a Fred doping to race Cat 4 events...hence why I said a few weeks ago that doping had jumped the shark:

http://www.amazon.com/Doper-Next-Do...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296492853&sr=8-1

 

[compete_clean]

This has developed into a really compelling thread. Good call.
I've been waiting for the appropriate thread to drop this article into. This seems like a good place.

From Outside Magazine 2003


Very interesting read.
http://outsideonline.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html

Where is the rest of that article? The last two page links are repeat of the first.

This is very interesting to me. I have always wondered what the effect is. I had a feeling that it might be significant because I have had teammates who couldn't get there stuff (stimulants) for a race and they were basically out the back almost from the start. Just for reference this was in the 80s in Holland.

 

[mombus]

Where is the rest of that article? The last two page links are repeat of the first.

This is very interesting to me. I have always wondered what the effect is. I had a feeling that it might be significant because I have had teammates who couldn't get there stuff (stimulants) for a race and they were basically out the back almost from the start. Just for reference this was in the 80s in Holland.

I had the same problem... was bummed. Does he die? Go on to conquer the world? Lose control of his bladder?

 

[hrotha]

I had the same problem... was bummed. Does he die? Go on to conquer the world? Lose control of his bladder?

Just change the page number manually in the address bar.

 

[compete_clean]

Great Outside article. I truly appreciate the honesty of the author. The problem is that this kind of stuff messes with my mind. It's pretty clear to me that doping makes a huge difference. I'm sure some of the dopers would be great cyclists if they rode clean but I can't help thinking that there are a lot of guys (at all levels) getting top results who would have trouble finishing races clean based on what I read now, and my own experiences racing. Why was Tyler on 20+ different things? It can't be because it didn't work.

The whole doping culture is completely messed. The message is that doping works, I just hope the stronger message will be that dopers get caught.

 

[mombus]

Just change the page number manually in the address bar.

annnnnd... nope

 

[hrotha]

annnnnd... nope

Try again, it works. I just tried - although the first time I tried it wouldn't load for some reason.

 

[hektoren]

For the last two pages go to:
http://outsideonline.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html?page=10
And
http://outsideonline.com/outside/bodywork/200311/200311_drug_test_1.html?page=11

 

[Benotti69]

snip.


Why was Tyler on 20+ different things? It can't be because it didn't work.

The whole doping culture is completely messed. The message is that doping works, I just hope the stronger message will be that dopers get caught.

because some guys believe it works.

 

[compete_clean]

because some guys believe it works.

You don't think it works?

 

[mountaindew]

Oh it works, but for some it works way better.

 

[hrotha]

You don't think it works?

I think the point was that more is not necessarily better. Dopers in the 90s took more EPO and presumably other substances than dopers in the mid 00s, and yet it would seem the latter got more of a performance boost. Landis alluded to this in his interview with Kimmage, saying in the end he found he only needed the transfusions, the EPO and the HGH (and maybe some other PED I'm forgetting). Jaksche has said similar things. Compare that to Hamilton's program or to the things Manzano mentioned taking.

 

[Granville57]

Why was Tyler on 20+ different things

Do we know that Tyler was on "20+ different things"? What is the source for that? (It would seem that just one "thing" is enough these days but I hadn't heard of any extensive list regarding Tyler)

 

[compete_clean]

I think the point was that more is not necessarily better. Dopers in the 90s took more EPO and presumably other substances than dopers in the mid 00s, and yet it would seem the latter got more of a performance boost. Landis alluded to this in his interview with Kimmage, saying in the end he found he only needed the transfusions, the EPO and the HGH (and maybe some other PED I'm forgetting). Jaksche has said similar things. Compare that to Hamilton's program or to the things Manzano mentioned taking.

I don't want to sound callous but i don't really care what they take, what combination or how much. As a former competitor, the bottom line for me is that it works and you have guys who are putting out sustained efforts at significantly higher power output with fewer bad moments in the race. I thought I had left all of this behind but I am really ****ed off when i read things like, 'and this guy wasn't even at his limit' ... or, 'doper X doesn't even look to be anywhere close to being in a bad spot'.

This is what cycling is about. If you are in a national championship or an amateur classic, or a pro single day race (as I was) you spend a large chunk of that race hurting. Even on a good day, you may only feel good enough to attack or follow serious move for 15-20% of the time of the race. The rest of the time you are suffering like ****. If doping even allowed you to have 33% of the time fresh enough to follow any attacks, then that would completely change the race for you.

It just makes me wonder how much better clean riders like Greg Lemond actually were, and what fantastic talents quit racing because they were bashing their head against the wall training but not able to go any faster than another much less talented rider who was doping.

 

[compete_clean]

Do we know that Tyler was on "20+ different things"? What is the source for that? (It would seem that just one "thing" is enough these days but I hadn't heard of any extensive list regarding Tyler)

Matt had a photocopy of the fax to Tyler's wife and it listed 25 different things .. or something like that.

here, I found one of the pages:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iMcBW_-dQV0/Rk2LB0xLyMI/AAAAAAAAAvQ/LlyV3_tn-BI/s1600-h/haven.jpg

 

[hrotha]

I don't want to sound callous but i don't really care what they take, what combination or how much. As a former competitor, the bottom line for me is that it works and you have guys who are putting out sustained efforts at significantly higher power output with fewer bad moments in the race. I thought I had left all of this behind but I am really ****ed off when i read things like, 'and this guy wasn't even at his limit' ... or, 'doper X doesn't even look to be anywhere close to being in a bad spot'.

This is what cycling is about. If you are in a national championship or an amateur classic, or a pro single day race (as I was) you spend a large chunk of that race hurting. Even on a good day, you may only feel good enough to attack or follow serious move for 15-20% of the time of the race. The rest of the time you are suffering like ****. If doping even allowed you to have 33% of the time fresh enough to follow any attacks, then that would completely change the race for you.

It just makes me wonder how much better clean riders like Greg Lemond actually were, and what fantastic talents quit racing because they were bashing their head against the wall training but not able to go any faster than another much less talented rider who was doping.

Fair enough, but the point is no one was arguing doping doesn't work.

 

[Granville57]

Matt had a photocopy of the fax to Tyler's wife and it listed 25 different things .. or something like that.

here, I found one of the pages:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iMcBW_-dQV0/Rk2LB0xLyMI/AAAAAAAAAvQ/LlyV3_tn-BI/s1600-h/haven.jpg

Ahhh, doping: The universal language.
Thanks for that link.

 

[Juicy McDrip]

I follow a policy of complete disclosure now w/ any medical professionals from whom I seek treatment, and I depend on them to advise me on the value/necessity of testing/monitoring my health independent of that which would already be undertaken, out of concern for possible doping complications.

I think the fact that there isn't a good understanding of what the long-term consequences are of even "controlled" doping or micro-dosing w/ doping products means that it's difficult to make firm conclusions about whether or not a condition now/later is derived from actions taken 10 years ago, for example.

Like...what if I develop cancer next year? After all, in 2010 I had a benign, non-cancerous lump of cells (cyst/tumor/legion) cut out of my chest. If the next one is cancer, is that to say it was caused by doping, when there's a significant family history of cancer? How do you figure that out?

Hmmm. Good point. Like...when you get cancer, we'll assume it was a bad pap-smear that precipitated it.

 

[Juicy McDrip]

This is the guy who wrote me up/down in Outside...and he's back w/ a book about his life as a Fred doping to race Cat 4 events...hence why I said a few weeks ago that doping had jumped the shark:

http://www.amazon.com/Doper-Next-Do...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1296492853&sr=8-1

Joe...I find it interesting that you're making fun of this guy becasue he's a Category 4 racer. It's as if you're saying Pro dopers should be held in higher regard.

I don't think so. I think you and all other dopers, regardless of category, age, ability or goals should be put into the same category. Cheaters.

Maybe the clean Pros consider you a "Fred".