Hero doper anyone?

[Enrico Gimondi]

I assume the film "Accidental Death Of A Cyclist" is the reason for this topic... i havent seen it yet. Is it worth a watch?

 

[kingjr]

My childhood hero, Erik Zabel. I became a fan when I was 5 years old, that wasn't gonna change anymore.

 

[Miburo]

Never cheered for a doper in my life.

That was good for a lol

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

That was good for a lol

Can assure you that I have no idea what you are talking about

 

[Miburo]

Can assure you that I have no idea what you are talking about

Can assure you that I didn't imply anything with my comment

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Can assure you that I didn't imply anything with my comment

you lol'ing at my perfect record of clean cycling heroes are an attack on my honor my good man. retract your "lol", or we have to make things right by a duel at dawn

 

[gooner]

no doper can be a hero. no cheat can be a hero. they are losers.

I agree they're not heroes by any means but l wouldn't go as far to say they're losers. They deserve criticism for crossing the line and I used to see it years back as a totally simple decision between good and bad where the issue could be brushed off easily if I was a pro-rider myself at the height of the doping. What if you were a part of the USPS team? Zabriskie had all sorts of convictions due to his family experiences of not succumbing to the culture but in the end did so. A Dutch report while back had it something like 80%-90% of riders during that era. What if you were a rider with Rabobank?

It was so widespread, my opinion is that no one on this forum can say for 100% certainty that they wouldn't have caved in and been a part of it. Ashenden has even said he may have doped after first listening to Floyd and Tyler's stories and became more understanding of a rider's predicament in the circumstances.

 

[Netserk]

no doper can be a hero. no cheat can be a hero. they are losers.

So Kimmage by that definition is a loser.

 

[42x16ss]

As are Simoni and Manzano

 

[deValtos]

As are Simoni and Manzano

Simeoni, big difference

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

As are Simoni and Manzano

Clearly you are missing what he alluding to.

 

[42x16ss]

Clearly you are missing what he alluding to.

I was putting Simeoni and Manzano in a similar category to Kimmage. If you aren't familiar, Simeoni squealed on Ferrari and Manzano gave evidence that directly led to Op Puerto

 

[42x16ss]

Simeoni, big difference

Whoops! Corrected

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

I was putting Simeoni and Manzano in a similar category to Kimmage. If you aren't familiar, Simeoni squealed on Ferrari and Manzano gave evidence that directly led to Op Puerto

I am familiar with them both albeit you should zip it

 

[gustienordic]

Pantani, Contador 09 & 11 (Giro toying with everyone)
Vino
Gilbert 11

Moser when he could actually win/place in races

 

[Benotti69]

So Kimmage by that definition is a loser.

as a cyclist, yes, he crossed the line and became a loser. as a journalist he is a winner.

 

[Benotti69]

I agree they're not heroes by any means but l wouldn't go as far to say they're losers. They deserve criticism for crossing the line and I used to see it years back as a totally simple decision between good and bad where the issue could be brushed off easily if I was a pro-rider myself at the height of the doping. What if you were a part of the USPS team? Zabriskie had all sorts of convictions due to his family experiences of not succumbing to the culture but in the end did so. A Dutch report while back had it something like 80%-90% of riders during that era. What if you were a rider with Rabobank?

It was so widespread, my opinion is that no one on this forum can say for 100% certainty that they wouldn't have caved in and been a part of it. Ashenden has even said he may have doped after first listening to Floyd and Tyler's stories and became more understanding of a rider's predicament in the circumstances.

plenty walked away rather than dope.

 

[gooner]

as a cyclist, yes, he crossed the line and became a loser. as a journalist he is a winner.

I don't see him as a loser as a cyclist. The whole theme of him exposing that culture was to show how enticing it was around him. I don't believe for a second that guys like Kimmage, Kelly and Roche when they became pro and raced in mainland Europe, that they went with the intention of doping to the gills from the outset. The system got to them, like it did with many.

I don't see that as people being weak when it was widespread and endemic.

plenty walked away rather than dope.

The Scott Mercier's of this world were a big minority. With Darren Baker, how others were like him at USPS over the years?

As much as I love the sport, I would have dread to have been a rider in that environment.

 

[Energy Starr]

plenty walked away rather than dope.

This x10. Why can't/couldn't these guys accept theat they're just not good enough and move on to the average joe life that so many of us live? At least one of these clowns doped for 15k per year....I mean really? Is that 15k salary just so awesome that you would dope to get it?

 

[IzzyStradlin]

Personally, I don't really care if Grand Tour level guys doped. If you go pro on real talent...I guess you might as well get paid.

It's the guys like Levi, Horner and TommyD that drive me nuts. Started doping early, to beat other amateurs. Then act like they earned a pro ride through hard work and talent.

And US domestic dopers. PEDs to beat fields that are 60% amateur??? Or make a few hundred $$$ in crits??? That's the worst. The worst I tell ya.

 

[Energy Starr]

Personally, I don't really care if Grand Tour level guys doped. If you go pro on real talent...I guess you might as well get paid.

It's the guys like Levi, Horner and TommyD that drive me nuts. Started doping early, to beat other amateurs. Then act like they earned a pro ride through hard work and talent.

And US domestic dopers. PEDs to beat fields that are 60% amateur??? Or make a few hundred $$$ in crits??? That's the worst. The worst I tell ya.

Agreed, but who do we know is actually a legit GT rider? Did any of those guys START doping after they were known to be a contender? I'm guessing none or very few.

 

[Tonton]

As much as I love the sport, I would have dread to have been a rider in that environment.

In my days (early 90's), and I bet it is the same today, as a junior you had to make a choice: start doping and contend, or race clean and be second fiddle, or as I did, say goodbye to your dreams, leave your club and ride for fun.

No doper is my hero.

 

[mrhender]

Agreed, but who do we know is actually a legit GT rider? Did any of those guys START doping after they were known to be a contender? I'm guessing none or very few.

Exactly....
And this is why there's a broad spectrum of attributes determing the support for individual riders.. Hero is a strong word, but should I use it in cycling it would be connected to other things then their placing in any given race..
For me it would be determined by other actions -actions of sacrifice/devotion for example...

 

[Berzin]

The OP could have titles the thread "favorite rider who was a doper".

Then maybe we could have a different conversation, because there is a distinction that can be made between the two, hero vs. doper. The term "hero" connotes a level of respect that dopers do not warrant, but you could still enjoy watching a rider ride if you feel he had an appealing style on the bike.

Fondriest, Berzin, Rominger, Frank Vandenbrouke come to mind off the bat. Someone mentioned the whole 1994 Gewiss team, and I agree.

Stylish kit, stylish bikes (DeRosa Titanio, then Bianchi Ti Mgatube in that awesome celeste green) and a dominant team that rode with great panache.

The ONCE team were just as dominant for a longer period of time, especially when the had both Zulle and Jalabert. They always came up with great time trial bikes for the major tours, I wonder what happened to that type of innovation? Thank you, UCI for implementing their stupid rules on bike design.

Some of these guy nowadays look horrible on their bikes. Everyone tries to ride such small frames and compensate with pushed back saddles and long stems. Where's the balance in that?

 

[pastronef]

Think it's a flawed mad genius weakness of mine. Ari Vatenen who drove a rally car like Pantani rode his bike, Diego Maradona and Paul Gascoigne to name just a few more lol.

Vatanen doped?

I'd add Kirvesniemi