I assume the film "Accidental Death Of A Cyclist" is the reason for this topic... i havent seen it yet. Is it worth a watch?
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Vino attacks everyone said:Never cheered for a doper in my life.
Miburo said:That was good for a lol
Vino attacks everyone said:Can assure you that I have no idea what you are talking about
Miburo said:Can assure you that I didn't imply anything with my comment
Benotti69 said:no doper can be a hero. no cheat can be a hero. they are losers.
So Kimmage by that definition is a loser.Benotti69 said:no doper can be a hero. no cheat can be a hero. they are losers.
Clearly you are missing what he alluding to.42x16ss said:As are Simoni and Manzano
I was putting Simeoni and Manzano in a similar category to Kimmage. If you aren't familiar, Simeoni squealed on Ferrari and Manzano gave evidence that directly led to Op PuertoDon't be late Pedro said:Clearly you are missing what he alluding to.
I am familiar with them both albeit you should zip it42x16ss said:I was putting Simeoni and Manzano in a similar category to Kimmage. If you aren't familiar, Simeoni squealed on Ferrari and Manzano gave evidence that directly led to Op Puerto
Netserk said:So Kimmage by that definition is a loser.
gooner said:I agree they're not heroes by any means but l wouldn't go as far to say they're losers. They deserve criticism for crossing the line and I used to see it years back as a totally simple decision between good and bad where the issue could be brushed off easily if I was a pro-rider myself at the height of the doping. What if you were a part of the USPS team? Zabriskie had all sorts of convictions due to his family experiences of not succumbing to the culture but in the end did so. A Dutch report while back had it something like 80%-90% of riders during that era. What if you were a rider with Rabobank?
It was so widespread, my opinion is that no one on this forum can say for 100% certainty that they wouldn't have caved in and been a part of it. Ashenden has even said he may have doped after first listening to Floyd and Tyler's stories and became more understanding of a rider's predicament in the circumstances.
Benotti69 said:as a cyclist, yes, he crossed the line and became a loser. as a journalist he is a winner.
Benotti69 said:plenty walked away rather than dope.
Benotti69 said:plenty walked away rather than dope.
IzzyStradlin said:Personally, I don't really care if Grand Tour level guys doped. If you go pro on real talent...I guess you might as well get paid.
It's the guys like Levi, Horner and TommyD that drive me nuts. Started doping early, to beat other amateurs. Then act like they earned a pro ride through hard work and talent.
And US domestic dopers. PEDs to beat fields that are 60% amateur??? Or make a few hundred $$$ in crits??? That's the worst. The worst I tell ya.
gooner said:As much as I love the sport, I would have dread to have been a rider in that environment.
Energy Starr said:Agreed, but who do we know is actually a legit GT rider? Did any of those guys START doping after they were known to be a contender? I'm guessing none or very few.
Gavandope said:Think it's a flawed mad genius weakness of mine. Ari Vatenen who drove a rally car like Pantani rode his bike, Diego Maradona and Paul Gascoigne to name just a few more lol.