Teams & Riders He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

[The Hitch]

The greatest talent of the last decade sure bonked a lot in the mountains. And has never done a great time trial in the Tour, isn't that telling. He's a great talent all-right, though not the greatest.

He's the best all-rounder of the decade perhaps, but doesn't make him the best talent automatically. I see Freire and I see World Champion in his first year as a pro.

Yes there were times I'm sure you knew
When he bit off more than he could chew

And no it can't, can't be denied,
Hes had his fill, his share of losing

But through it all when there was doubt
He ate it up and spit it out,

he faced it all
And he stood tall

The Greatest ta
lent!!!!

 

[El Pistolero]

Evans did his fair share of bonking, until last july valv. was 1 up in the GT department. While I think Evans is a great all round rider not prepared to commit to him being the better rider. Of course evans is the better ttr overall (sorry just being good on hilly course isn't enough).

Contador is without a doubt the greatest stage racer in the last decade, if not ever. Best climber, up there in regards to TT.
If he showed more in one day racing it would be hard to argue against him.

I actually think Freire is the biggest talent in cycling. I don't want to know how his career would have looked like without injuries or him having a normal training schedule. Talent, so much talent. Not wasted, but perhaps a tiny bit... Plus I actually think he's clean.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I actually think Freire is the biggest talent in cycling. I don't want to know what his career would have looked like without injuries or him having a normal training schedule. Talent, so much talent. Not wasted, but perhaps a tiny bit...

Friere maybe, but one still relies on the whatif' in regards to friere. Still easily one of the best in the last decade or so.

I think Valv. for example has done extreamly well whilst riding. Consistantly up there, not an easy thing to do.

Hard to debate the greatest really.

 

[The Hitch]

+1 - I think Evans and Contador have the wood over him in that respect.

Out of a hundred Evans gets about +3 in mountains, + 6 in tts, and level in descents. Meanwhile Valverde gets like + 3 in hills and about + 20 in sprinting.

Also hes the only rider who is better than Evans and Contador at having a peak all the way through the season.

Significantly better even.

The guys ****ing going for the Tour down under, a season warm up race.

By July he usually has twice as many serious racing days as any other GT contender and thats before his season really kicks off with his 2 big races and then worlds.

And people mock him for failing in some races lol.

It would be like criticizing Mozart for not playing the triangle.

 

[auscyclefan94]

That's a bogus scoring system but you can believe what you want.

 

[The Hitch]

Plus I actually think he's clean.

Sorry but this doesnt count as an argument for Freire being a bigger talent.

Though I agree, Freire is one of the greats, probably in the top 5 jens mentions.

But El Imbatido is El Imbatido.

Its like comparing Hinault to Mercx. You cant say a bad word about Hinault.
But Merckx is Merckx and there is no other.

That's a bogus scoring system but you can believe what you want.

Give me a better one then, one that takes into account the insane difficulty of being great in what are essentially different disciplines.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

the +20 was pretty ridicilious.

Anyway I disagree evans is better in mountains.

 

[El Pistolero]

My top 5

Oscar Freire
Alberto Contador
Alejandro Valverde
Tom Boonen(would have moved him up if he didn't regress since 2009)
Frank Vandenbroucke(yes, I'm going 13 years back just to name him )

^ You can replace VDB with Cancellara though. And while you're at it you can probably place him over Boonen, but I will not commit such blasphemy personally!

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

come on, evans has to be in top 5.

 

[auscyclefan94]

My top 5

Oscar Freire
Alberto Contador
Alejandro Valverde
Tom Boonen(would have moved him up if he didn't regress since 2009)
Frank Vandenbroucke(yes, I'm going 13 years back just to name him )

^ You can replace VDB with Cancellara though. And while you're at it you can probably place him over Boonen, but I will not commit such blasphemy personally!

Freire? Is that some sort of joke? Please explain!

 

[El Pistolero]

come on, evans has to be in top 5.

As you can see from my top 5 I'm biased towards people who were really good from young age.

Hence the lack of Cadel Evans(and Phil) even though it's really impressive to be the oldest Tour winner since WWII. I see Cadel more as a hard worker than as a prodigy. Oscar Freire and Contador are prodigies.

 

[The Hitch]

the +20 was pretty ridicilious.

Why? Valverde is significantly better at sprinting. Maybe its more like +14 but its still a big gap.

My top 5

Oscar Freire
Alberto Contador
Alejandro Valverde
Tom Boonen(would have moved him up if he didn't regress since 2009)
Frank Vandenbroucke(yes, I'm going 13 years back just to name him )

Good list Pistolero. Lots of quality there.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

As you can see from my top 5 I'm biased towards people who were really good from young age.

Hence the lack of Cadel Evans(and Phil) even though it's really impressive to be the oldest Tour winner since WWII. I see Cadel more as a hard worker than as a prodigy. Oscar Freire and Contador are prodigies.

well cuddles was a mt bike world champ at a young age. Not like he was doing nothing.

But I agree that hard work got cuddles his results rather then pure talent. I liked your list anyway, who couldnt like a list with vdb.

---

@ hitch regardless i don't think it is easy as saying

+20 sprinting
+ 3 hills
- 3 mountains
- 6 tting
therefore cuddles is the lesser rider by 14 points etc.

and +20 is a gross over estimation. One might think he is trumping cavendish in sprints.

 

[Ferminal]

Evans would be a 65/65 SPR/ACC, Valverde maybe 74/74.

 

[Ryaguas]

Freire? Is that some sort of joke? Please explain!

3 WC... nuff said

 

[Ryaguas]

Hence the lack of Cadel Evans(and Phil) even though it's really impressive to be the oldest Tour winner since WWII. I see Cadel more as a hard worker than as a prodigy. Oscar Freire and Contador are prodigies.

He is like Basso... training damn hard during the whole season to get results

 

[El Pistolero]

3 WC... nuff said

And 3 San Remo's
Too bad he's riding for Katusha though, I hate them.

You know what would be funny? Oscar Freire becoming WC this year at Valkenburg, he has some history there I wonder why he got so obsessed with the Cauberg lol.

Bala Verde is a hard worker as well though, now I found 2 things where I respect him in. His wheelsucking tendencies in classics still **** me off though.

I don't think I've ever seen someone return at such a good level after a ban. Perhaps I should wait till Willunga hill before judging his form though.

 

[Ryaguas]

And 3 San Remo's
Too bad he's riding for Katusha though, I hate them.

You know what would be funny? Oscar Freire becoming WC this year at Valkenburg, he has some history there I wonder why he got so obsessed with the Cauberg lol.

Come on... You only have to use the 3MSR when you want to humillate someone
about the cauberg... Maybe He knows that He can take it and feels it that way but as He always blows it He wants to keep trying and trying until He gets it

 

[auscyclefan94]

As you can see from my top 5 I'm biased towards people who were really good from young age.

Hence the lack of Cadel Evans(and Phil) even though it's really impressive to be the oldest Tour winner since WWII. I see Cadel more as a hard worker than as a prodigy. Oscar Freire and Contador are prodigies.

I would actually say Evans is one of the most naturally talented. A VO2 max between 88-90 means you are some what naturally talented.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I would actually say Evans is one of the most naturally talented. A VO2 max between 88-90 means you are some what naturally talented.

regardless I don't think he is as talented as these other guys, I certainly think hardwork has got him where he is.

AN andy schleck with evans mentality probably would have cleaned up at the tour last year.

 

[PCutter]

well cuddles was a mt bike world champ at a young age. Not like he was doing nothing.

Cadel was never MTB world champ


And no one has any love for Fabian? Talent at early age...tick. Winning from an early age...tick. Monuments..tick. Stage races...tick. WC's (TT tick). Im no fan of his patron antics, but...Boonen > Fabian??

 

[ultimobici]

Cadel was never MTB world champ

True, but he did win the World Cup in 1998 & 1999 in his early 20's

And no one has any love for Fabian? Talent at early age...tick. Winning from an early age...tick. Monuments..tick. Stage races...tick. WC's (TT tick). Im no fan of his patron antics, but...Boonen > Fabian??

They all have talent at an early age, otherwise they'd not become pros. So he's won multiple WC in the TT - it's a made up championship that never existed until 1994. It is still a poor man's GP des Nations at less than 50km.

His petulant actions re other riders' tactics and his attempt to become the Patron of the peloton are what seal it for me. I'm looking forward to both him and Valverde having fallow seasons. Fingers crossed!

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Cadel was never MTB world champ


And no one has any love for Fabian? Talent at early age...tick. Winning from an early age...tick. Monuments..tick. Stage races...tick. WC's (TT tick). Im no fan of his patron antics, but...Boonen > Fabian??

sorry i meant u-23.

but he was good none the less.

 

[auscyclefan94]

sorry i meant u-23.

but he was good none the less.

He didn't win u23 either but has won medals at both levels.

 

[c&cfan]

Cadel was never MTB world champ


And no one has any love for Fabian? Talent at early age...tick. Winning from an early age...tick. Monuments..tick. Stage races...tick. WC's (TT tick). Im no fan of his patron antics, but...Boonen > Fabian??

i really do "love" fabian, but tom.. damn.

for some reason i am still wondering why he does not have 3 or 4 MSR, 3 worlds, 5 to 6 ronde, 5 to 6 roubaix, 3 greens at le tour, 4 paris tours, etc etc.

the guy was destroying everyone!!!! i miss tornado tom