• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Teams & Riders He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

Page 17 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

What will Valverde's impact be the cycling world in 2012

  • Nuclear Holocoust

    Votes: 27 100.0%

  • Total voters
    27
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
5
0
Visit site
The Hitch said:
Respect of El Pistolero.

Fame fortune and babes.

mmmm.

Tough one ;)

Bettini has them all :p

Don't worry, I'm not forcing Valverde to change his racing style, even if I could. :)

Tell me one classic victory of Bernard Hinault that you know of?

Neige-Bastogne-Neige is the victory most people will remember just because it was so epic. He didn't just win, he carved his name in history a little bit deeper that day.
 
Dec 30, 2011
3,547
0
0
Visit site
El Pistolero said:
It's the goal that is on most people's mind, that's for sure, but it's not the "ultimate" goal, now is it? I cannot think anything higher than achieving the ultimate goal yet I can think of bigger achievements then just win a race. How would you like to win? Like Andy on the Galibier or like Rolland on Alpe?
Well i guess it matters how you define ultimate it can either be defined as fundemental whereas winning would certainly be the "ultimate goal" or as greatest (which i suppose is what you are reffering to) and highest in quality whereas the ultimate goal would according to me still be winning as you can then gain greater achievements by winning such as winning in the sprint in all the ardennes classic (aka ardennes triple) is a greater achievement than obliterating your opponents and would therefore be a greater ultimate goal.
 
To become really famous many years after your retirement 'just winning' won't have been enough to be remembered for years to come. How you win is also important for your legacy.

To be honest, I have no idea how Alfredo Binda won his races. All I know about Hugo Koblet is that other than the cq game he was the first non Italian to win Il Giro.

I hear Coppi attacked 8k from the end on Alpe but dont know how he won all the other monuments and gts. I hear Anquetil was good in tts and Poulidor did attack, I think but what do I know.

etc etc etc.

No you dont need to attack to be remembered. Im pretty sure Cav will be very well remembered despite the fact that he has never attacked in his life.

Though yes winning by attack is better remembered by some.
 
El Pistolero said:
It's easier to win future races if you break the spirit of your competition. Armstrong did it all these years in the Tour.

If you give the rider a choice to win from a sprint or win solo most of them will chose the latter. How can "just win" be the "ultimate" goal then?

Armstrong "mental games" are vastly overrated and I'm surprised you're touting their effectiveness. I'd have to resort all types of clinic related references along with a brief dissertation into the effectiveness of large monetary contributions to a institution that is supposed to remain nonbiased to state why he and his team was so effective for so long. Additionally he was quite the luck streak of virtually no major injuries, crashes or illnesses to interrupt his string of dominance, unlike some of his primary rivals (Ullrich, Beloki, Pantani etc...).

This crap about breaking someone's spirit is belittling to all the riders that fought with Armstrong during his reign. Certainly each year mnay came with the intention of winning and defeating Armstrong or otherwise why show up at all? Even as he was building his string of wins and was constantly mentioned as the obvious favorite, there were riders who had the audacity to still believe that they could topple him from his throne. How dare they with their broken spirits?:rolleyes: Mayo had that belief going into the 2004 Tour. Ullrich still believed it could be done in 2003 as did Beloki before his horrible crash. They hadn't given up hope.
 
El P said:
To become really famous many years after your retirement 'just winning' won't have been enough to be remembered for years to come. How you win is also important for your legacy.

To be honest, I have no idea how Alfredo Binda won his races. All I know about Hugo Koblet is that other than the cq game he was the first non Italian to win Il Giro.

I hear Coppi attacked 8k from the end on Alpe but dont know how he won all the other monuments and gts. I hear Anquetil was good in tts and Poulidor did attack, I think but what do I know.

etc etc etc.

No you dont need to attack to be remembered. Im pretty sure Cav will be very well remembered despite the fact that he has never attacked in his life.

Though yes winning by attack is better remembered by some.

And which of my neighbours do you consider barbaric again?
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
5
0
Visit site
Froome19 said:
Well i guess it matters how you define ultimate it can either be defined as fundemental whereas winning would certainly be the "ultimate goal" or as greatest (which i suppose is what you are reffering to) and highest in quality whereas the ultimate goal would according to me still be winning as you can then gain greater achievements by winning such as winning in the sprint in all the ardennes classic (aka ardennes triple) is a greater achievement than obliterating your opponents and would therefore be a greater ultimate goal.

Yes, different views, but that's indeed how I see it. I'd much rather win like Andy on Galibier than to win like Rolland or from some random breakaway.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
5
0
Visit site
Angliru said:
I can remember them both vividly but then I can remember most of Valverde's big wins as vividly as El Pistolero can likely remember most of Gilbert's.:)

I'm not talking about 4 years after the fact though, more like 30 years after the fact. Only the races won in the most impressive fashion will be rememberd that long. And that doesn't include Gilbert's win in LBL, but does include VDB's win in LBL. In my opinion at least.

If you'd ask me what Gilbert's greatest victory is I'd answer Giro di Lombardia 2010 even if I know Gilbert considers LBL to be his greatest victory to date. I just loved that edition of Lombardia: Gilbert and Scarponi shoulder to shoulder in the rain with a car behind them with the lights turned on. Flashback from the old days of cycling!
 
oh sweet

AjhYw9PCEAA-Mrq.jpg


does anyone know how much weight did valverde lose?it seems to me he hasn't more than 56-57 kg.
 
Jul 16, 2010
17,455
5
0
Visit site
The Hitch said:
Never mind. I thought you said Baltic people crave violence but now I realise you said it about those in the Mediterranean. My bad:D

Which ones though?

All of them(not all at the same extent however). Homicidal rates and violence statistics are higher in Southern European countries bordering the Mediterranean sea and also Turkey and North African countries compared to Northern Europe. After around 1500 there was a gradual process of "spiritualisation of honour" going on in Northern Europe(Low countries, France, England, some Scandinavian countries and to a lesser extent Germany) while the rest of Europe retained an honour(= respect) system that was still closely related to the body till deep in the 19th and 20th century. The divergence between Northern Europe and Southern Europe is of course (a lot) smaller now than a few centuries ago, but there's still a gap. Spiritualisation of honour means that one doesn't react violently anymore when offended and that he can gain/obtain respect/honour by other means than violence like avoiding violence. As for the 21th centurty, murder and violence rates have been going up again in all European countries since 1970. Same trend is visible in the USA, but they always had a higher homicide and violence rate than Europe.

An honour system closely related to the body basically means that if someone disrespected you by means of an insult or another wrongful act the only way you can regain your respect is by returning the insult or by violence. People who always reacted violently to insults were "feared" and thus respected by their neighbours and not considered cowards. That still exists today in these Mediterannean countries, though obviously to a lesser extent than in the past. Best example of a "country" where respect is still closely related to the body(and the face in particular) is Corsica and also Sicily. Just remember that "respect" doesn't have the same meaning in every country. While we for example would consider a Turkish father killing someone who had intercourse with his daughter(before marriage) a trivial cause to kill someone for they'd consider it respectful and the right thing to do. I wouldn't say they crave violence, they merely have a different culture and the difference between North and South is much smaller these days than 70 years ago anyway.

Just saying this because one of your posts was assuming earning someone's respect precludes using violence or instilling fear in someone while that is not true today for every country in the world(and not even every European country) and definitely not true for the past. Sorry for the off-topic rambling :) Besides, I just like using quotes like the one of Caligula. But even in cycling being afraid of a certain cyclist can be advantageous for said cyclist. Frank and Andy feared Gilbert at LBL, so they didn't even bother to attack him after they got away. They started LBL that day knowing they had already lost. They were like sheep destined for slaughter.

To use a quote of someone else this time:

"It's always a little bit scary when Contador attacks" - Thomas Voeckler.

Perhaps that one is a bit more relevant to what I'm talking about, what do you think? :D
 
Mar 11, 2009
1,005
0
0
Visit site
El Pistolero said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdbyv94L6fA

You can see he catches the early breakaway and instead of waiting a little bit, he immediatly attacks them. Boonen never played a role that year anyway. He also won the Omloop in 2006 by the way. Which kinda was the race I was refering to.

Thanks. I first recall Gilbert as being sort of a 5-10th place guy in mass sprints and then he broke out at Het Volk. That's I never thought of him as the guy you don't want to sprint against in a small group. I think a case in point (though I am sure I forget something like a Cancellara attack) but in MSR he attacked in the finale rather doing like Goss and wait for the sprint. Though of course, with all due respect, Goss couldn't have attacked that group and gotten away.
 
May 19, 2011
96
0
0
Visit site
Wow, he looks like an old fart who needs to eat something. Doesn't look like and athlete at all. Greipel looks like a true athlete. Healthy skinny I would say. For his weight..
 

TRENDING THREADS