Teams & Riders He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

Too bad he was off his game today

He wasn't. Just his usual weakness on long climbs that go above 2000m.

I agree today didn't suit him as well as the steeper climbs in the Cantabrian mountains.

But it wasn't even 2000 meters today.

And just because the climbs are longer and at higher altitude, it doesn't automatically mean that Valverde has to crack. It just increases the likelihood of a bad day, which I think was what we saw today. So in a way, he was off his game.

2025m

You are right. In my mind it was 1820 meters for some reason. I must have confused it with Gallina or one of the other Andorran climbs.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Too bad he was off his game today

He wasn't. Just his usual weakness on long climbs that go above 2000m.

I agree today didn't suit him as well as the steeper climbs in the Cantabrian mountains.

But it wasn't even 2000 meters today.

And just because the climbs are longer and at higher altitude, it doesn't automatically mean that Valverde has to crack. It just increases the likelihood of a bad day, which I think was what we saw today. So in a way, he was off his game.

2025m

Yeah at the top, but he begin to rode cowardly already at 1400-1500m!

 

[Blanco]

I counted at least 4 big, rookie mistakes from Bala today:

1. Rode entire day near the front and get much more wind than any other GC contender.
2. Didn't sit on Yates wheel, was way behind to react.
3. Didn't bridge to Quintana immediately when Carapaz stopped, lost at least 20 sec.
4. Waited for Quintana to come back after puncture, lost another 20-30 sec.

That's way too much even for 23-year old Mas, let alone 38-year old veteran who has seen it all, and done it all.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

I counted at least 4 big, rookie mistakes from Bala today:

1. Rode entire day near the front and get much more wind than any other GC contender.
2. Didn't sit on Yates wheel, was way behind to react.
3. Didn't bridge to Quintana immediately when Carapaz stopped, lost at least 20 sec.
4. Waited for Quintana to come back after puncture, lost another 20-30 sec.

That's way too much even for 23-year old Mas, let alone 38-year old veteran who has seen it all, and done it all.

Unfortunately he's always been prone to really stupid mistakes at times. No idea why, and no idea why he keeps making some of these mistakes.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Re:

I counted at least 4 big, rookie mistakes from Bala today:

1. Rode entire day near the front and get much more wind than any other GC contender.
2. Didn't sit on Yates wheel, was way behind to react.
3. Didn't bridge to Quintana immediately when Carapaz stopped, lost at least 20 sec.
4. Waited for Quintana to come back after puncture, lost another 20-30 sec.

That's way too much even for 23-year old Mas, let alone 38-year old veteran who has seen it all, and done it all.

Number 4 was absolutely batshit, as he then rode off and left Nairo behind 75 seconds later. Staggeringly daft.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Agree. If Yates gets into a crisis today and loses 1 or a bit more, Valverde must really kick himself. He rode badly and wasn't great psychically. Cant do nothing about the last one, but he is 38 years old for christ sake. Very bad tactics unfortunately.

 

[Blanco]

I would really like that he has something left in the tank, and I hope he can produce good ride. I would love to see him ride like a champion, something he certainly is, and not to ride like yesterday. By that I'm not strictly thinking about the legs, but the way he rides. I was pretty disappointed by his attitude yesterday, that was not a ride of a big champion. I really hope he could turn things around one more time in his career, like he often did, and produce a ride we could all be proud of.

 

[Koronin]

Thankfully these last 3 stages are on TV. (Due to evacuating, internet companies where we are staying are overloaded and the internet is exceptionally slow, so no streaming anything right now).
That was not a good ride from him yesterday and some very poor decisions. Yes he's 38, but he's not learned how to stop make these really strange poor decisions. Hopefully he's able to turn it around and ride like he's capable of today.

 

[toolittle]

Re: Re:

He is migthily perfect when WT classics and weekly stage race.
He is mysteriously stupid when it came to GT or WC or Olympic.

So, many years, it has been enough. Let see what happen 2weeks later.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Real mt stages.. Nope

 

[Koronin]

Sigh, now no reason to bother watching the final 2 stages. I shall just go cry instead.

 

[Gigs_98]

What a weird Vuelta from him. He was never that much better on steep short walls compared to long climbs but in this race the difference was huge. He dropped Yates three days ago being one of the two strongest gc contenders but yesterday and today he was nowhere and lost minutes. And it's not even like Monte Oiz is the Mur de Huy or a climb where you basically make a one kilometer long uphill sprint. It's a 7 kilometer climb so a proper climbing effort but somehow for Valverde still completely different than the climbs today and yesterday.

 

[Koronin]

What a weird Vuelta from him. He was never that much better on steep short walls compared to long climbs but in this race the difference was huge. He dropped Yates three days ago being one of the two strongest gc contenders but yesterday and today he was nowhere and lost minutes. And it's not even like Monte Oiz is the Mur de Huy or a climb where you basically make a one kilometer long uphill sprint. It's a 7 kilometer climb so a proper climbing effort but somehow for Valverde still completely different than the climbs today and yesterday.

I don't know what the difference this year was. It's really weird. He should not have lost that much time on these two stages.

 

[Gigs_98]

What a weird Vuelta from him. He was never that much better on steep short walls compared to long climbs but in this race the difference was huge. He dropped Yates three days ago being one of the two strongest gc contenders but yesterday and today he was nowhere and lost minutes. And it's not even like Monte Oiz is the Mur de Huy or a climb where you basically make a one kilometer long uphill sprint. It's a 7 kilometer climb so a proper climbing effort but somehow for Valverde still completely different than the climbs today and yesterday.

I don't know what the difference this year was. It's really weird. He should not have lost that much time on these two stages.

But it's not just these two stages. He was already bad on Covatilla and mediocre in Lagos de Covadonga (he finished high but only because Kruijswijk pulled him back to the Yates group and because in front people were looking at each other)

 

[Koronin]

What a weird Vuelta from him. He was never that much better on steep short walls compared to long climbs but in this race the difference was huge. He dropped Yates three days ago being one of the two strongest gc contenders but yesterday and today he was nowhere and lost minutes. And it's not even like Monte Oiz is the Mur de Huy or a climb where you basically make a one kilometer long uphill sprint. It's a 7 kilometer climb so a proper climbing effort but somehow for Valverde still completely different than the climbs today and yesterday.

I don't know what the difference this year was. It's really weird. He should not have lost that much time on these two stages.

But it's not just these two stages. He was already bad on Covatilla and mediocre in Lagos de Covadonga (he finished high but only because Kruijswijk pulled him back to the Yates group and because in front people were looking at each other)

I agree it's been a bunch of stages. I'm not willing to put this on either age or his injury. Something does seem a bit off. Unfortunately this doesn't bode well for the Worlds either. I don't know what is wrong, but something is definitely off. Maybe it goes back to not having had an off season after last year.

 

[lartiste]

Re: Re:

He is migthily perfect when WT classics and weekly stage race.
He is mysteriously stupid when it came to GT or WC or Olympic.

So, many years, it has been enough. Let see what happen 2weeks later.

:sad:

 

[staubsauger]

Gosh, he's 38 and initially wasn't even supposed to lead the team at the Tour of Spain although it was announced like that in spring. If Quintana wasn't a complete failure and unable to fulfill his capabilities, a 6th place from Valverde on the Vuelta gc would be perfectly fine!

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Gosh, he's 38 and initially wasn't even supposed to lead the team at the Tour of Spain although it was announced like that in spring. If Quintana wasn't a complete failure and unable to fulfill his capabilities, a 6th place from Valverde on the Vuelta gc would be perfectly fine!

Actually it's 5th. Strangely enough he still finds history, there are only 3 riders (according to la Vuelta) that have had more GT top 10 GC finishes than he has in cycling history. He now has 17 top 10 GC finishes. Pedro Delgdo, Felice Gimondi, and Gino Bartali are the only ones to have more.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yeah, its pretty weird regarding the steep ramps, they are 15-20 minute efforts so its not like it much of a difference. But he has been significant better on those type of climbs for some reason.

5th overall and two stages wins is nice. I dont care for green jersey at all, but maybe he does. Overall, a very good Vuelta for him and he can be proud.

I dont know regarding Worlds. He seems emptied, but he can recover, but I fear the length and the toughness of the course. If its a relatively conservative up until the last climb he can definitely win, but I must admit Im not super confident.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Yeah, its pretty weird regarding the steep ramps, they are 15-20 minute efforts so its not like it much of a difference. But he has been significant better on those type of climbs for some reason.

5th overall and two stages wins is nice. I dont care for green jersey at all, but maybe he does. Overall, a very good Vuelta for him and he can be proud.

I dont know regarding Worlds. He seems emptied, but he can recover, but I fear the length and the toughness of the course. If its a relatively conservative up until the last climb he can definitely win, but I must admit Im not super confident.

The fact he went after points a couple years ago on the final day to get the green jersey I do think he cares about it and wants to tie Sean Kelly's record, which he'll do.

He's had a great Vuelta. I'm just sad he didn't get the historic podium he was after. Something just seems a bit off for him in this Vuelta, and like you I'm also worried about the Worlds after this. In truth after last year when he were fearing for his career, I guess we shouldn't be that disappointed in his not getting the podium. However, I still am very sad he didn't get it and will not be watching today's stage when it's shown at 1am or whatever it is. Just not worth it to watch him struggle like that.

 

[Red Rick]

Valverde has a long history of performing better on steeper climbs than on really long high tempo climbs.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Valverde has a long history of performing better on steeper climbs than on really long high tempo climbs.

Ofc, but to this extent?

Koronin: I enjoyed the stage regardless. It was the second best GT stage this year IMO, so I recommend you watching it - nice seeing the young guys play.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Valverde has a long history of performing better on steeper climbs than on really long high tempo climbs.

Has he? Maybe he has been slightly better on short and steep climbs but the difference was never huge.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Valverde has a long history of performing better on steeper climbs than on really long high tempo climbs.

Ofc, but to this extent?

Koronin: I enjoyed the stage regardless. It was the second best GT stage this year IMO, so I recommend you watching it - nice seeing the young guys play.

The difference has never been this big.

ValPiti, replay comes on at 1am. I highly doubt we will have power at our house where the DVR is set to record (hopefully t's not flooded either). I just don't think I can stay up that late and watch my boy suffer as badly as he did today. With what I'm dealing with personally (not having a clue if I ever have a home to go back to after the hurricane) I don't think I can handle it.

 

[Forever The Best]

Still a good Vuelta by him. He looks good for WC and Lombardia.