Teams & Riders He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

He should have been at the start in Milan today. Might just have missed a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to win Milan-Sanremo.

Except he was never targeting Milan-San Remo this year. He is however, targeting Catalunya which in the year's he's raced Milan-San Remo has not raced.

I realise that. It's hard to target a race if you're not on the startline, which was my point. But yes, he certainly has a way higher chance of winning Catalunya than Milan-Sanremo so it's hard to blame him.

Then again, nobody gives a damn about Catalunya while winning MSR like Nibali did makes you a legend.

Please. We all know that if Valverde had done what Nibali did today, the victory wouldn't be worth anything in your estimation because of the blatant motorpacing.

 

[Eli]

Re: Re:

He should have been at the start in Milan today. Might just have missed a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to win Milan-Sanremo.

Except he was never targeting Milan-San Remo this year. He is however, targeting Catalunya which in the year's he's raced Milan-San Remo has not raced.

I realise that. It's hard to target a race if you're not on the startline, which was my point. But yes, he certainly has a way higher chance of winning Catalunya than Milan-Sanremo so it's hard to blame him.

I think also that Nibali was inexplicably underestimated and given too much rope by the other favourites, in a way that Valverde probably wouldn't have been.

As great a rider Valverde is, I don't think He is able or should I say willing to take the Risk Nibs took today.

 

[Koronin]

The other thing is that it is highly unlikely Valverde would have been given the same rope that Nibali was given. Valverde always has a target on his back when he enters a race, whereas Nibali does not. That is testament to Valverde's consistency that is just amazing. Nibali like virtually ever other rider does not have that crazy consistency. So no for him I would not regret the decision he made to go to Catalunya instead. In general he does prefer the Spanish races to most other races, the Ardennes and Strade Bianche being the 4 big races outside of Spain that he also loves racing.

 

[toolittle]

Re: Re:

Valverde is a great cyclist for sure.
His killing kicks are ultimate uphill sprint and ultimate finishing speed after hard climbing.
He got a strong endurance and TT ability also.

Somehow, he missed races such as WC, Olympic and an gusty win.
His has a great career achievement. Some people, including me, might believe he could achieve more.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

He should have been at the start in Milan today. Might just have missed a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to win Milan-Sanremo.

Except he was never targeting Milan-San Remo this year. He is however, targeting Catalunya which in the year's he's raced Milan-San Remo has not raced.

I realise that. It's hard to target a race if you're not on the startline, which was my point. But yes, he certainly has a way higher chance of winning Catalunya than Milan-Sanremo so it's hard to blame him.

Then again, nobody gives a damn about Catalunya while winning MSR like Nibali did makes you a legend.

Please. We all know that if Valverde had done what Nibali did today, the victory wouldn't be worth anything in your estimation because of the blatant motorpacing.

Yeah but to balance out the route some motorpacing is needed.

 

[tobydawq]

Sure, I don't complain about that either. I just know Pisti would have, if Valverde had been the benefactor.

I was very angry about it when it cost Valverde the Giro victory in 2016, though.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Sure, I don't complain about that either. I just know Pisti would have, if Valverde had been the benefactor.

I was very angry about it when it cost Valverde the Giro victory in 2016, though.

There are a couple of things that happened at that Giro that cost Valverde the victory that include cars and motobikes.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

He should have been at the start in Milan today. Might just have missed a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to win Milan-Sanremo.

Except he was never targeting Milan-San Remo this year. He is however, targeting Catalunya which in the year's he's raced Milan-San Remo has not raced.

I realise that. It's hard to target a race if you're not on the startline, which was my point. But yes, he certainly has a way higher chance of winning Catalunya than Milan-Sanremo so it's hard to blame him.

Then again, nobody gives a damn about Catalunya while winning MSR like Nibali did makes you a legend.

Please. We all know that if Valverde had done what Nibali did today, the victory wouldn't be worth anything in your estimation because of the blatant motorpacing.

Wheelsuckers can't do with Nibali just did.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

Wheelsuckers can't do with Nibali just did.

You can suck wheels on bikes or on motorbikes - same thing, I would guess.

 

[Nirvana]

If Nibali can drop everyone on the Poggio for sure also Valverde could but he needs to attack early like Nibali to gain an amount of time that will suffice for a solo win, an attack near the top like Sagan last year it's not enough.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

If Nibali can drop everyone on the Poggio for sure also Valverde could but he needs to attack early like Nibali to gain an amount of time that will suffice for a solo win, an attack near the top like Sagan last year it's not enough.

What a dumb way of thinking.

You can't possibly know that. In case you didn't realize: no one could follow Nibali today, not sagan, not Kwiatkowski, not Greg Van Avermaet.

Assuming Valverde can automatically follow every single one of Nibali's attacks is just flat out wrong and stupid.

 

[tobydawq]

Re: Re:

If Nibali can drop everyone on the Poggio for sure also Valverde could but he needs to attack early like Nibali to gain an amount of time that will suffice for a solo win, an attack near the top like Sagan last year it's not enough.

What a dumb way of thinking.

You can't possibly know that. In case you didn't realize: no one could follow Nibali today, not sagan, not Kwiatkowski, not Greg Van Avermaet.

Assuming Valverde can automatically follow every single one of Nibali's attacks is just flat out wrong and stupid.

The fact that they didn't follow doesn't prove that they couldn't.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

If Nibali can drop everyone on the Poggio for sure also Valverde could but he needs to attack early like Nibali to gain an amount of time that will suffice for a solo win, an attack near the top like Sagan last year it's not enough.

What a dumb way of thinking.

You can't possibly know that. In case you didn't realize: no one could follow Nibali today, not sagan, not Kwiatkowski, not Greg Van Avermaet.

Assuming Valverde can automatically follow every single one of Nibali's attacks is just flat out wrong and stupid.

The fact that they didn't follow doesn't prove that they couldn't.

Post-race interviews do.

 

[Nirvana]

Re: Re:

If Nibali can drop everyone on the Poggio for sure also Valverde could but he needs to attack early like Nibali to gain an amount of time that will suffice for a solo win, an attack near the top like Sagan last year it's not enough.

What a dumb way of thinking.

You can't possibly know that. In case you didn't realize: no one could follow Nibali today, not sagan, not Kwiatkowski, not Greg Van Avermaet.

Assuming Valverde can automatically follow every single one of Nibali's attacks is just flat out wrong and stupid.

But I didn't say that Valverde would have automatically follow Nibali today, I said that if Nibali can drop everyone on the Poggio also Valverve could do the same, not today, in general. Valverde has a strong acceleration than Nibali uphill.

 

[ice&fire]

Re: Re:

If Nibali can drop everyone on the Poggio for sure also Valverde could but he needs to attack early like Nibali to gain an amount of time that will suffice for a solo win, an attack near the top like Sagan last year it's not enough.

What a dumb way of thinking.

You can't possibly know that. In case you didn't realize: no one could follow Nibali today, not sagan, not Kwiatkowski, not Greg Van Avermaet.

Assuming Valverde can automatically follow every single one of Nibali's attacks is just flat out wrong and stupid.

The fact that they didn't follow doesn't prove that they couldn't.

Post-race interviews do.

For a start, Sagan's post-race interview proves you can't read.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

If Nibali can drop everyone on the Poggio for sure also Valverde could but he needs to attack early like Nibali to gain an amount of time that will suffice for a solo win, an attack near the top like Sagan last year it's not enough.

What a dumb way of thinking.

You can't possibly know that. In case you didn't realize: no one could follow Nibali today, not sagan, not Kwiatkowski, not Greg Van Avermaet.

Assuming Valverde can automatically follow every single one of Nibali's attacks is just flat out wrong and stupid.

The fact that they didn't follow doesn't prove that they couldn't.

Post-race interviews do.

For a start, Sagan's post-race interview proves you can't read.

Sagan couldn't even close the gap to Trentin, never mind Nibali.

 

[telencefalus]

with all the respect for Valverde and what he is doing at 38 years of age i think Nibali is a bit better tha Valverde could we agree on this?
Of course they are different rider , but Nibali has 3 monuments and 5 grand tours this is something done by just Merckx hinualt and gimondi

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Re:

The other thing is that it is highly unlikely Valverde would have been given the same rope that Nibali was given. Valverde always has a target on his back when he enters a race, whereas Nibali does not. That is testament to Valverde's consistency that is just amazing. Nibali like virtually ever other rider does not have that crazy consistency. So no for him I would not regret the decision he made to go to Catalunya instead. In general he does prefer the Spanish races to most other races, the Ardennes and Strade Bianche being the 4 big races outside of Spain that he also loves racing.

While i agree wioth you that Valverde consistency is incredible (i'm literally in awe of how he is able to be on great form year round and treats every race as a target), to say that they gave Nibali more rope than they would give valverde isn't right IMO, he is a known quantity at MSR, having podiumed before, everyone knew that he is a very strong descender and rouleur after a hard race and that letting him go before the top of the poggio would mean trouble, the other favorites just weren't able to bring him back without completely destroying their own chances in the sprint, it's not giving him rope, it's just him being the strongest and the smartest today.

 

[Blanco]

Re:

with all the respect for Valverde and what he is doing at 38 years of age i think Nibali is a bit better tha Valverde could we agree on this?
Of course they are different rider , but Nibali has 3 monuments and 5 grand tours this is something done by just Merckx hinualt and gimondi

No, we won't agree. Although with this win today I rate them pretty equal.
And Nibali has 4 GT's...

 

[telencefalus]

Re: Re:

with all the respect for Valverde and what he is doing at 38 years of age i think Nibali is a bit better tha Valverde could we agree on this?
Of course they are different rider , but Nibali has 3 monuments and 5 grand tours this is something done by just Merckx hinualt and gimondi

No, we won't agree. Although with this win today I rate them pretty equal.
And Nibali has 4 GT's...

ah ok 5 soon before giro d'italia , so Nibali a bit better come on Valverde fan boys accept it

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

The other thing is that it is highly unlikely Valverde would have been given the same rope that Nibali was given. Valverde always has a target on his back when he enters a race, whereas Nibali does not. That is testament to Valverde's consistency that is just amazing. Nibali like virtually ever other rider does not have that crazy consistency. So no for him I would not regret the decision he made to go to Catalunya instead. In general he does prefer the Spanish races to most other races, the Ardennes and Strade Bianche being the 4 big races outside of Spain that he also loves racing.

While i agree wioth you that Valverde consistency is incredible (i'm literally in awe of how he is able to be on great form year round and treats every race as a target), to say that they gave Nibali more rope than they would give valverde isn't right IMO, he is a known quantity at MSR, having podiumed before, everyone knew that he is a very strong descender and rouleur after a hard race and that letting him go before the top of the poggio would mean trouble, the other favorites just weren't able to bring him back without completely destroying their own chances in the sprint, it's not giving him rope, it's just him being the strongest and the smartest today.

Well, Sagan just said he choose to stay in the group cause he thought they would catch Nibali. I think that's giving him rope...

 

[Koronin]

Re:

with all the respect for Valverde and what he is doing at 38 years of age i think Nibali is a bit better tha Valverde could we agree on this?
Of course they are different rider , but Nibali has 3 monuments and 5 grand tours this is something done by just Merckx hinualt and gimondi

It's also highly unlikely Nibali will come close to 100 wins for a pro career. (He's 33 with just over 50 wins, 4 years younger than Valverde. [well technically 4 and a half years younger]) Yes having won 5 Grand Tours and 3 monuments is impressive. However it's no more impressive than Valverde's 113 (current) wins including a Grand Tour and Liege 4 times. Only Merckx has more wins there. Those 113 wins also include several records including Fleche Wallone and the Ardennes double along the longest time between first and most recent wins at several races include la Vuelta and Volta a Catalunya.
As for which is better I think it depends on what you're looking at and what you value. Nibali targets certain races and uses others for training and doesn't try to win. Valverde tries to win virtually ever race he enters. Valverde also attempted to not only race all 3 GTs in one season, but to get top 10s in all three and came just a little bit short of that. I highly doubt anyone else is going to try that again for a very long time.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Re: Re:

The other thing is that it is highly unlikely Valverde would have been given the same rope that Nibali was given. Valverde always has a target on his back when he enters a race, whereas Nibali does not. That is testament to Valverde's consistency that is just amazing. Nibali like virtually ever other rider does not have that crazy consistency. So no for him I would not regret the decision he made to go to Catalunya instead. In general he does prefer the Spanish races to most other races, the Ardennes and Strade Bianche being the 4 big races outside of Spain that he also loves racing.

While i agree wioth you that Valverde consistency is incredible (i'm literally in awe of how he is able to be on great form year round and treats every race as a target), to say that they gave Nibali more rope than they would give valverde isn't right IMO, he is a known quantity at MSR, having podiumed before, everyone knew that he is a very strong descender and rouleur after a hard race and that letting him go before the top of the poggio would mean trouble, the other favorites just weren't able to bring him back without completely destroying their own chances in the sprint, it's not giving him rope, it's just him being the strongest and the smartest today.

Well, Sagan just said he choose to stay in the group cause he thought they would catch Nibali. I think that's giving him rope...

I would call that a gross miscalculation on his part instead of giving him rope, but that might be playing semantics :lol:

 

[telencefalus]

Re: Re:

with all the respect for Valverde and what he is doing at 38 years of age i think Nibali is a bit better tha Valverde could we agree on this?
Of course they are different rider , but Nibali has 3 monuments and 5 grand tours this is something done by just Merckx hinualt and gimondi

It's also highly unlikely Nibali will come close to 100 wins for a pro career. (He's 33 with just over 50 wins, 4 years younger than Valverde. [well technically 4 and a half years younger]) Yes having won 5 Grand Tours and 3 monuments is impressive. However it's no more impressive than Valverde's 113 (current) wins including a Grand Tour and Liege 4 times. Only Merckx has more wins there. Those 113 wins also include several records including Fleche Wallone and the Ardennes double along the longest time between first and most recent wins at several races include la Vuelta and Volta a Catalunya.
As for which is better I think it depends on what you're looking at and what you value. Nibali targets certain races and uses others for training and doesn't try to win. Valverde tries to win virtually ever race he enters. Valverde also attempted to not only race all 3 GTs in one season, but to get top 10s in all three and came just a little bit short of that. I highly doubt anyone else is going to try that again for a very long time.

Ok let's see how will be the palmares at end of career , of course Valverde has more wins he has the sprint talent that Nibali doesn't have but the latter is more talented in grand tours

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Re: Re:

with all the respect for Valverde and what he is doing at 38 years of age i think Nibali is a bit better tha Valverde could we agree on this?
Of course they are different rider , but Nibali has 3 monuments and 5 grand tours this is something done by just Merckx hinualt and gimondi

It's also highly unlikely Nibali will come close to 100 wins for a pro career. (He's 33 with just over 50 wins, 4 years younger than Valverde. [well technically 4 and a half years younger]) Yes having won 5 Grand Tours and 3 monuments is impressive. However it's no more impressive than Valverde's 113 (current) wins including a Grand Tour and Liege 4 times. Only Merckx has more wins there. Those 113 wins also include several records including Fleche Wallone and the Ardennes double along the longest time between first and most recent wins at several races include la Vuelta and Volta a Catalunya.
As for which is better I think it depends on what you're looking at and what you value. Nibali targets certain races and uses others for training and doesn't try to win. Valverde tries to win virtually ever race he enters. Valverde also attempted to not only race all 3 GTs in one season, but to get top 10s in all three and came just a little bit short of that. I highly doubt anyone else is going to try that again for a very long time.

Yep, they are two very different riders, even if they are able to do well in the same kinds of races, both are the closest thing to legends in the present peloton in my book, and i say that as someone who actually doesn't like Valverde that much as a bike racer because of the way he sometime race (and because if i'm completely honest he regularly barred riders that i like more from winning), but i have a lot of admiration for him nonetheless.