Teams & Riders He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

Yeah, him not competing in Flanders is a huge downer. I really looked forward to it - oh well, maybe next year...

This is not a dig, but what was the attraction of the possibility of Valverde riding Flanders? Just the novelty of it? Do you think he really could've contended for a podium there, or would top-10 have been a more plausible goal? If he struggled to even manage to eat during Wednesday's race, does that mean he was at the limit of his skills/fitness/concentration/blah,blah and would've had an even harder time at Flanders if the weather was same or worse?

All speculation, I know, but I can't say I'm heartbroken he won't ride it. I mean, I know he's not fragile, but...idk

Flanders is my favourite race and I legitimately think he could do well and top-10. Races are generally also more entertaining when your favourite rider takes part, unless he snaps his collarbone!
But yeah, there's something about the novelty also. Its a good story and I also think it could silence some hater had he done well.

If he'd better prepared for it, then he could, but not this year. I think he struggled hard in Dwars and that's why he decided to skip de Ronde.

He attempted to animate the race more than once and finished just outside the top ten in his first attempt at this event and you call that struggling? He was praised by at least one of his competitors so what did you see that they did not?

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Yeah, him not competing in Flanders is a huge downer. I really looked forward to it - oh well, maybe next year...

This is not a dig, but what was the attraction of the possibility of Valverde riding Flanders? Just the novelty of it? Do you think he really could've contended for a podium there, or would top-10 have been a more plausible goal? If he struggled to even manage to eat during Wednesday's race, does that mean he was at the limit of his skills/fitness/concentration/blah,blah and would've had an even harder time at Flanders if the weather was same or worse?

All speculation, I know, but I can't say I'm heartbroken he won't ride it. I mean, I know he's not fragile, but...idk

Flanders is my favourite race and I legitimately think he could do well and top-10. Races are generally also more entertaining when your favourite rider takes part, unless he snaps his collarbone!
But yeah, there's something about the novelty also. Its a good story and I also think it could silence some hater had he done well.

If he'd better prepared for it, then he could, but not this year. I think he struggled hard in Dwars and that's why he decided to skip de Ronde.

He attempted to animate the race more than once and finished just outside the top ten in his first attempt at this event and you call that struggling? He was praised by at least one of his competitors so what did you see that they did not?

Actually it was his 2nd attempt at this race. The first was back in 2014 where he finished around 30th in the lead group. There were several rivals (including at least two Quickstep riders and Quickstep's DS) who were praising him.

He was struggling at the end because by his own admission he had a hard time eating during the race because he was frozen.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

Now to address the Contador/Valverde comparison. Contador [...] did [...] not as well in hilly stage races or one day races. Valverde [...] has done extremely well in one week races of any type and done well in Grand Tours (8 podiums is proof of that along with only two completed GTs that he finished outside the top 10 in GC). They are completely different types of riders.

What (larger) stage races do you consider hilly? What non-hilly stage races has Valverde done well in that Contador hasn't? Anything better than Eneco '12?

Well I'm pretty sure neither of them have raced Eneco unless Contador did at some point. It would be nice to see what Valverde could do there, but he's not going to race it because it's too close to la Vuelta if not overlapping with la Vuelta.

Contador did race Eneco and ended up 4th if I remember correctly. He did fairly well there, that was his first race after ban.
As for both of them in terms of stage racing, I think they're both Hors Category. They both won much, and they both won big. Contador has the edge in races with more TT-ing, while Bala has the advantage in races with bonus seconds.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Contador did race Eneco and ended up 4th if I remember correctly. He did fairly well there, that was his first race after ban.
As for both of them in terms of stage racing, I think they're both Hors Category. They both won much, and they both won big. Contador has the edge in races with more TT-ing, while Bala has the advantage in races with bonus seconds.

Aye, a handful of seconds from the podium. On the Queen stage over the Muur he finished 8th, last of the front group. I actually looked up those results a couple days ago and it's funny to see his name between all those classics specialists.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Contador did race Eneco and ended up 4th if I remember correctly. He did fairly well there, that was his first race after ban.
As for both of them in terms of stage racing, I think they're both Hors Category. They both won much, and they both won big. Contador has the edge in races with more TT-ing, while Bala has the advantage in races with bonus seconds.

Aye, a handful of seconds from the podium. On the Queen stage over the Muur he finished 8th, last of the front group. I actually looked up those results a couple days ago and it's funny to see his name between all those classics specialists.

Coolest thing was Belgian commentators Van Avermeat was leading with Nuyens after the first climb of the Muur and then going 'wait, damn that's Contador'

If anything that was a pretty interesting stage, cause I really got the idea that flying up the Muur once was pretty doable for a climber like Contador but doing it multiple times is a lot harder cause he doesn't have the raw strength.

In any case, it's a total waste they don't use the Flemish hills (or the Ardennes for that matter) when they go through Belgium in the Tour.

 

[Flamin]

Re: Re:

Yeah, him not competing in Flanders is a huge downer. I really looked forward to it - oh well, maybe next year...

This is not a dig, but what was the attraction of the possibility of Valverde riding Flanders? Just the novelty of it? Do you think he really could've contended for a podium there, or would top-10 have been a more plausible goal? If he struggled to even manage to eat during Wednesday's race, does that mean he was at the limit of his skills/fitness/concentration/blah,blah and would've had an even harder time at Flanders if the weather was same or worse?

All speculation, I know, but I can't say I'm heartbroken he won't ride it. I mean, I know he's not fragile, but...idk

Flanders is my favourite race and I legitimately think he could do well and top-10. Races are generally also more entertaining when your favourite rider takes part, unless he snaps his collarbone!
But yeah, there's something about the novelty also. Its a good story and I also think it could silence some hater had he done well.

If he'd better prepared for it, then he could, but not this year. I think he struggled hard in Dwars and that's why he decided to skip de Ronde.

He attempted to animate the race more than once and finished just outside the top ten in his first attempt at this event and you call that struggling? He was praised by at least one of his competitors so what did you see that they did not?

So when someone praised your performance, it means you didn't struggle? I thought it was pretty obvious that he was fading in the last 25-30km. Besides, I don't see much praise in the Velonews article (if that's what you're referring to) from his competitors. Just Lampaert who says Valverde is one of the best riders in the last century, which is just a general compliment in my book. The same Lampaert said in front of the camera that Valverde's attack on Kruisberg was relatively 'easy' to follow, by the way.

 

[Bardamu]

Another victory for Valverde. Solo this time!

 

[hrotha]

Re:

Another victory for Valverde. Solo this time!

Yawn. Valverde destroying the D-list races instead of doing the Ronde. Typical Valverde and typical Friar. It's tragic. As much as he's won during his career, his baffling schedules (especially the last few years) make him waste a lot of his potential.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Yeah, him not competing in Flanders is a huge downer. I really looked forward to it - oh well, maybe next year...

This is not a dig, but what was the attraction of the possibility of Valverde riding Flanders? Just the novelty of it? Do you think he really could've contended for a podium there, or would top-10 have been a more plausible goal? If he struggled to even manage to eat during Wednesday's race, does that mean he was at the limit of his skills/fitness/concentration/blah,blah and would've had an even harder time at Flanders if the weather was same or worse?

All speculation, I know, but I can't say I'm heartbroken he won't ride it. I mean, I know he's not fragile, but...idk

Flanders is my favourite race and I legitimately think he could do well and top-10. Races are generally also more entertaining when your favourite rider takes part, unless he snaps his collarbone!
But yeah, there's something about the novelty also. Its a good story and I also think it could silence some hater had he done well.

If he'd better prepared for it, then he could, but not this year. I think he struggled hard in Dwars and that's why he decided to skip de Ronde.

He attempted to animate the race more than once and finished just outside the top ten in his first attempt at this event and you call that struggling? He was praised by at least one of his competitors so what did you see that they did not?

So when someone praised your performance, it means you didn't struggle? I thought it was pretty obvious that he was fading in the last 25-30km. Besides, I don't see much praise in the Velonews article (if that's what you're referring to) from his competitors. Just Lampaert who says Valverde is one of the best riders in the last century, which is just a general compliment in my book. The same Lampaert said in front of the camera that Valverde's attack on Kruisberg was relatively 'easy' to follow, by the way.[/quote]

There's a Spanish article that also includes comments from Stybar. http://noticiclismo.com/2018/03/28/valverde-sorprende-al-mundo-del-ciclismo-con-su-actuacion-en-dwars-door-vlaanderen/

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Another victory for Valverde. Solo this time!

Yawn. Valverde destroying the D-list races instead of doing the Ronde. Typical Valverde and typical Friar. It's tragic. As much as he's won during his career, his baffling schedules (especially the last few years) make him waste a lot of his potential.

According to what he said after today's race, he wanted to race this one because they were honoring one of his former DS's.

 

[hrotha]

I'm well aware. It's BS.

 

[Moviestar]

To put Valverde's performance in DDV in perspective:

1. Lampaert... 75 kg
2. Teunissen... 73
3. Vanmarcke... 77
4. Boasson-Hagen... 75
5. Pedersen... 70
6. Stybar... 71
7. Benoot... 72
8. Van Avermaet... 74
9. Terpstra... 75
10. Stuyven... 78
11. Valverde... 61

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

To put Valverde's performance in DDV in perspective:

1. Lampaert... 75 kg
2. Teunissen... 73
3. Vanmarcke... 77
4. Boasson-Hagen... 75
5. Pedersen... 70
6. Stybar... 71
7. Benoot... 72
8. Van Avermaet... 74
9. Terpstra... 75
10. Stuyven... 78
11. Valverde... 61

Bogus stats. Riders don't have static weight throughout the season anyway. Van Avermaet was better than Valverde on a mountainous Olympic course... And he didn't finish 11th, he WON.

Nibali won in Milan-San Remo by attacking on the Poggio (an easy climb, even compared to the Flemish hills) and he also weighs a lot less than your typical Milan-San Remo contender.

Hills are hills, cobbles don't make that big of a difference (Boonen said this by the way).

Sagan even won the Tour of California, which included a mountain stage. He also won that very hilly stage in the Tirreno-Adriatico in 2013 (where Froome lost the lead to Nibali).

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

To put Valverde's performance in DDV in perspective:

1. Lampaert... 75 kg
2. Teunissen... 73
3. Vanmarcke... 77
4. Boasson-Hagen... 75
5. Pedersen... 70
6. Stybar... 71
7. Benoot... 72
8. Van Avermaet... 74
9. Terpstra... 75
10. Stuyven... 78
11. Valverde... 61

Bogus stats. Riders don't have static weight throughout the season anyway. Van Avermaet was better than Valverde on a mountainous Olympic course... And he didn't finish 11th, he WON.

Nibali won in Milan-San Remo by attacking on the Poggio (an easy climb, even compared to the Flemish hills) and he also weighs a lot less than your typical Milan-San Remo contender.

Hills are hills, cobbles don't make that big of a difference (Boonen said this by the way).

Sagan even won the Tour of California, which included a mountain stage. He also won that very hilly stage in the Tirreno-Adriatico in 2013 (where Froome lost the lead to Nibali).

An Olympic RR that was demanding that Valverde had just raced both the Giro and Tour for GC as well as a podium at San Sebastian and admitted that he wasn't in the right form for that race. No one else raced those three races all for GC/podiums and then the Olympic RR.

 

[Blanco]

Re:

I'm well aware. It's BS.

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

To put Valverde's performance in DDV in perspective:

1. Lampaert... 75 kg
2. Teunissen... 73
3. Vanmarcke... 77
4. Boasson-Hagen... 75
5. Pedersen... 70
6. Stybar... 71
7. Benoot... 72
8. Van Avermaet... 74
9. Terpstra... 75
10. Stuyven... 78
11. Valverde... 61

Bogus stats. Riders don't have static weight throughout the season anyway. Van Avermaet was better than Valverde on a mountainous Olympic course... And he didn't finish 11th, he WON.

Nibali won in Milan-San Remo by attacking on the Poggio (an easy climb, even compared to the Flemish hills) and he also weighs a lot less than your typical Milan-San Remo contender.

Hills are hills, cobbles don't make that big of a difference (Boonen said this by the way).

Sagan even won the Tour of California, which included a mountain stage. He also won that very hilly stage in the Tirreno-Adriatico in 2013 (where Froome lost the lead to Nibali).

An Olympic RR that was demanding that Valverde had just raced both the Giro and Tour for GC as well as a podium at San Sebastian and admitted that he wasn't in the right form for that race. No one else raced those three races all for GC/podiums and then the Olympic RR.

Valverde has the same shape in every single race he enters, stop looking for excuses.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

To put Valverde's performance in DDV in perspective:

1. Lampaert... 75 kg
2. Teunissen... 73
3. Vanmarcke... 77
4. Boasson-Hagen... 75
5. Pedersen... 70
6. Stybar... 71
7. Benoot... 72
8. Van Avermaet... 74
9. Terpstra... 75
10. Stuyven... 78
11. Valverde... 61

Bogus stats. Riders don't have static weight throughout the season anyway. Van Avermaet was better than Valverde on a mountainous Olympic course... And he didn't finish 11th, he WON.

Nibali won in Milan-San Remo by attacking on the Poggio (an easy climb, even compared to the Flemish hills) and he also weighs a lot less than your typical Milan-San Remo contender.

Hills are hills, cobbles don't make that big of a difference (Boonen said this by the way).

Sagan even won the Tour of California, which included a mountain stage. He also won that very hilly stage in the Tirreno-Adriatico in 2013 (where Froome lost the lead to Nibali).

An Olympic RR that was demanding that Valverde had just raced both the Giro and Tour for GC as well as a podium at San Sebastian and admitted that he wasn't in the right form for that race. No one else raced those three races all for GC/podiums and then the Olympic RR.

Valverde has the same shape in every single race he enters, stop looking for excuses.

According to Valverde he didn't have the legs at the Olympic RR and was apologizing for it. So yeah, he does on occasion have an off day for one reason or another. If anything all it does is prove he's human.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

I'm well aware. It's BS.

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He's not good enough to win the Ronde, he found that out in Dwars door Vlaanderen. Valverde doesn't like a challenge, he only goes for easy to control races.

Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

An Olympic RR that was demanding that Valverde had just raced both the Giro and Tour for GC as well as a podium at San Sebastian and admitted that he wasn't in the right form for that race. No one else raced those three races all for GC/podiums and then the Olympic RR.

El Pisti's point wasn't really about Valverde underperforming in Rio, but about weight not being such a huge deal, but either way, I don't understand the point of including San Sebastian in your argument. It's not like it adds any notable sort of fatigue, not when compared to the Giro-Tour double anyway.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

I'm well aware. It's BS.

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He's not good enough to win the Ronde, he found that out in Dwars door Vlaanderen. Valverde doesn't like a challenge, he only goes for easy to control races.

Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

It's unlikely Nibali is going to win LBL as you have 3 teams who most definitely WANT a sprint finish in that race. It's not just Movistar, but Quickstep and UAE also want the same type of finish and at least Movistar and Quickstep will have strong teams surrounding Valverde and Alaphilippe.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

I'm well aware. It's BS.

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He's not good enough to win the Ronde, he found that out in Dwars door Vlaanderen. Valverde doesn't like a challenge, he only goes for easy to control races.

Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

Of course he's not good enough, he's not a magician. He lacks experience on these roads, that will come with age

Nibali wants to win Liege alright, but if he comes 30th he will not lose any sleep about that. With Valverde situation is little different...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

[
Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

It's unlikely Nibali is going to win LBL as you have 3 teams who most definitely WANT a sprint finish in that race. It's not just Movistar, but Quickstep and UAE also want the same type of finish and at least Movistar and Quickstep will have strong teams surrounding Valverde and Alaphilippe.

Again I think you missed El Pisti's point, in your defense he is sometimes a bit hard to follow.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

I'm well aware. It's BS.

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He's not good enough to win the Ronde, he found that out in Dwars door Vlaanderen. Valverde doesn't like a challenge, he only goes for easy to control races.

Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

Of course he's not good enough, he's not a magician. He lacks experience on these roads, that will come with age

Nibali wants to win Liege alright, but if he comes 30th he will not lose any sleep about that. With Valverde situation is little different...

Agreed. Nibali wants to win at LBL but won't lose sleep if he doesn't. Yes it's a goal, but if he doesn't do well it's also not a big deal. For Valverde, he is expected to win. If he doesn't win it's a failure basically. For Nibali it's not. Huge difference.

As for Flanders, neither one is going to win the first time they go. Movistar doesn't have a team to support anyone in a cobbled race and we're talking a race that you need to prepare for and not just show up last minute esp if you've never raced it before. Strade he could do that because he's raced it multiple times and done very well.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

I'm well aware. It's BS.

He didn't skipped Ronde to ride this race, he skipped it because he wants to be fresh as possible for Ardennes. Also he doesn't want to do Ronde like some kind of adventurist, he wants good preparation and strong, well prepared team to help him. He has neither right now. He wouldn't do anything in that race right now, and he knows it, that's why he didn't want to race it. Simple as that.

He's not good enough to win the Ronde, he found that out in Dwars door Vlaanderen. Valverde doesn't like a challenge, he only goes for easy to control races.

Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

It's unlikely Nibali is going to win LBL as you have 3 teams who most definitely WANT a sprint finish in that race. It's not just Movistar, but Quickstep and UAE also want the same type of finish and at least Movistar and Quickstep will have strong teams surrounding Valverde and Alaphilippe.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

If Alaphilippe and especially Dan Martin don't realize they're riding for second place in such a situation than they truly are braindead.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

[
Nibali also wants to win LBL, yet he's still going to ride the Ronde tomorrow.

It's unlikely Nibali is going to win LBL as you have 3 teams who most definitely WANT a sprint finish in that race. It's not just Movistar, but Quickstep and UAE also want the same type of finish and at least Movistar and Quickstep will have strong teams surrounding Valverde and Alaphilippe.

Again I think you missed El Pisti's point, in your defense he is sometimes a bit hard to follow.

Thanks. I think you're right.