Teams & Riders He's coming home!!!! Alejandro Valverde comeback thread.

[Fantastico]

Did you MISS the fact that he had a huge drop off after 2018? Yes he at best is at his 2019 levels. He is not going to EVER get back to his 2018 level. He had lost some of his explosiveness in 2019 and does NOT have it this year. That is obvious. In 2017 and 2018 he WAS racing against Alaphilippe. Right now Alaphilippe is NOT as good as he was in 2017 and 2018. In 2017 he BEAT Alaphilippe at Fleche Wallone. Yes it is EASY to make those comparisons and to use those years as a benchmark to his current form because it's obvious. If he has the form of 2017 he wins both races, if he has his 2018 form he likely wins at least 1 of the 2 and is on the podium at both. His current form is not anywhere close to the form he had those two years where he was virtually unbeatable. By the way, if he has competent form YES we should expect him to be in that front group, because that is him and that is to be expected. If he wasn't in the front group then his form is NOT even his 2019 form. Most consistent rider in the peloton for virtually 2 full decades, you EXPECT him in the front group if he has good form and you EXPECT him to have that form.

No, he did not have a HUGE drop off right after 2018, at least not as huge as you make it. He was 2nd in Vuelta, 8th in Flanders, 2nd in Lombardia (where he was probably the strongest rider). He was not very good in the Ardennes Classics back then, but that was also because he had initially planned to ride the Giro before his crash.

Moreover, if you resist that he will NEVER get back to his 2018 level, why do you always start making this comparison at all? After every race he is not winning this year, you start claiming, almost sounding derogatory, that he is at most at his form of 2019. Why is this relevant to his performances right now?

And, yes, in 2017 he was nearly unbeatable in Flèche and Liège, but result-wise he was also much worse in Amstel. I also disagree that we should definitely EXPECT him in the front group. Even prime Valverde sometimes lacked in making the right move at the right time tactically. How often has he been really strong in San Sebastian or Lombardia but did somehow manage to not follow the winning move? Even in his best years, there have been days where he would have stayed at Roglic's wheel today and then fought for 5th place in the chasing group.

And by the way. It is false that he beat Alaphilippe in Flèche Wallone in 2017. That was in 2016, when Alaphilippe was still far from his top level. In 2017 Alaphilippe did not contest the Ardennes Classics due to an injury and after 2018 he has always beaten Valverde in Flèche. So your argument that prime Valverde would beat prime Alaphilippe is completely unfounded.

 

[Koronin]

No, he did not have a HUGE drop off right after 2018, at least not as huge as you make it. He was 2nd in Vuelta, 8th in Flanders, 2nd in Lombardia (where he was probably the strongest rider). He was not very good in the Ardennes Classics back then, but that was also because he had initially planned to ride the Giro before his crash.

Moreover, if you resist that he will NEVER get back to his 2018 level, why do you always start making this comparison at all? After every race he is not winning this year, you start claiming, almost sounding derogatory, that he is at most at his form of 2019. Why is this relevant to his performances right now?

And, yes, in 2017 he was nearly unbeatable in Flèche and Liège, but result-wise he was also much worse in Amstel. I also disagree that we should definitely EXPECT him in the front group. Even prime Valverde sometimes lacked in making the right move at the right time tactically. How often has he been really strong in San Sebastian or Lombardia but did somehow manage to not follow the winning move? Even in his best years, there have been days where he would have stayed at Roglic's wheel today and then fought for 5th place in the chasing group.

And by the way. It is false that he beat Alaphilippe in Flèche Wallone in 2017. That was in 2016, when Alaphilippe was still far from his top level. In 2017 Alaphilippe did not contest the Ardennes Classics due to an injury and after 2018 he has always beaten Valverde in Flèche. So your argument that prime Valverde would beat prime Alaphilippe is completely unfounded.

He was very inconsistent in 2019 for the first time ever. He has NOT been consistent this year as he started the season horribly and it looked like it would be a repeat of 2020, which was horrendous. Alaphilippe this year is NOT better than Alaphilippe in 2016 either. Thus proving Valverde is NOT anywhere close to his prime. By the way Valverde's prime should actually be before Alaphilippe even started racing as a pro. Yes he DID have a huge drop after he won the worlds. There were a BUNCH of races that he would have won if he had 2017/2018 form in 2019 where he was on the podium and didn't win. By the way, Valverde PROVED today that he's still HORRIBLE with tactical decisions and has proven that several times already this season.

 

[hfer07]

Gotta love Bala for being so competitive & among the best at 41 y.o. some of us wished to have at least a portion of his talent

 

[Fantastico]

He has NOT been consistent this year as he started the season horribly and it looked like it would be a repeat of 2020, which was horrendous.

Actually, he has been consistent, as his form got consistently better. It's probably just that at a higher age it takes longer to reach peak form compared to some years ago.

Alaphilippe this year is NOT better than Alaphilippe in 2016 either.

Instead of admiting your false claims, you now just changed your argument. Such "moving the goalposts" is a really bad way of discussing.

There were a BUNCH of races that he would have won if he had 2017/2018 form in 2019 where he was on the podium and didn't win.

I think it's a logical fallacy to think that just because he did not win these races, his form must have been worse. Yes, he did not win races that he would have before, but that's also due to some degree of contendedness after the Worlds, slowly decreasing explosiveness and tactical errors.

By the way, Valverde PROVED today that he's still HORRIBLE with tactical decisions and has proven that several times already this season.

Yes, he has proven that he's not the best at tactical decisions. But first of all, you are exaggerating as always, and secondly, I do not see how that supports your claims at all.

Oh and capitalizing does not mean that your arguments become more valid.

 

[CyclistAbi]

He was there with the best. Maybe he could do more, tactically. For example to wait for another 50m, but still it would be hard to win today.

 

[Koronin]

Actually, he has been consistent, as his form got consistently better. It's probably just that at a higher age it takes longer to reach peak form compared to some years ago.


Instead of admiting your false claims, you now just changed your argument. Such "moving the goalposts" is a really bad way of discussing.


I think it's a logical fallacy to think that just because he did not win these races, his form must have been worse. Yes, he did not win races that he would have before, but that's also due to some degree of contendedness after the Worlds, slowly decreasing explosiveness and tactical errors.


Yes, he has proven that he's not the best at tactical decisions. But first of all, you are exaggerating as always, and secondly, I do not see how that supports your claims at all.

Oh and capitalizing does not mean that your arguments become more valid.

You just don't like what I said, so you are saying they are false.

If he had is full consistency he would have started good and did not. Thus he CANNOT be as good consistency wise as before. He was consistent from Jan through Oct PRE 2019. That is NOT possible now.

The bolded part PROVES his form CANNOT be as good as it was before 2019. Not having the sprint he had before means he CANNOT have the form he had before 2019. Not at all complicated.

There are easily 10 races/stages/GC he could have won if not for dumb tactical decisions and if there are easily 10 realistically there are more like 20 to 30 that he could have won without stupid tactical decisions.

 

[Fantastico]

You just don't like what I said, so you are saying they are false.

No, the part about Flèche Wallone 2017 was objectively false. This has nothing to do with me not agreeing with the rest of your post.

 

[Koronin]

No, the part about Flèche Wallone 2017 was objectively false. This has nothing to do with me not agreeing with the rest of your post.

Valverde in 2018 if he wasn't out of position on the Mur likely beats Alaphilippe. The only times Valverde hit the Mur de Huy in correct position he's won.

 

[Eeslliw]

Alaphilippe this year is NOT better than Alaphilippe in 2016 either.

You must be trolling right? That is just ridiculus. Everybody is saying (and times on climbs are not lying) that level is higher this year. That same Alaphilippe, who was by your words better in 2016, just 5 days ago broke record on Mur.

So to sum it up. 2016 Ala, who didn't win anything that year>>>2021 Ala with record and win on Mur de Huy. Okay.

 

[Koronin]

You must be trolling right? That is just ridiculus. Everybody is saying (and times on climbs are not lying) that level is higher this year. That same Alaphilippe, who was by your words better in 2016, just 5 days ago broke record on Mur.

So to sum it up. 2016 Ala, who didn't win anything that year>>>2021 Ala with record and win on Mur de Huy. Okay.

He would have more wins that he currently has. Either that or this discussion on Alaphilippe needs moved to the clinic.

 

[Eeslliw]

He would have more wins that he currently has. Either that or this discussion on Alaphilippe needs moved to the clinic.

2016 Ala would have more wins this year? Based on what? How did you get to that conclusion? So many questions

 

[Velolover2]

Alaphilippe is in his prime age. Should have improved a lot since 2016.

There are a few early peak cases like Andy Schleck and Cunego but Ala is definitely not one of them. I'm sure he will be one of the absolute best riders until at least 35.

 

[Koronin]

Alaphilippe is in his prime age. Should have improved a lot since 2016.

There are a few early peak cases like Andy Schleck and Cunego but Ala is definitely not one of them. I'm sure he will be one of the absolute best riders until at least 35.

That's an excellent reason to NOT watch anymore after Valverde retires. I don't agree with you based on Alaphilippe's temperament. He's arrogant and gets bored easily. He likely won't last that long in the sport just based on those two things.

 

[Bonimenier]

Alaphilippe this year is NOT better than Alaphilippe in 2016 either.

Tobydawq made a special topic for this kind of quotes.

 

[joe_papp]

Simultaneously annoying that Valverde didn't at least podium, but likewise deeply satisfying that he made the final selection and contested the sprint. I honestly haven't read any coverage of the race or your previous posts, so I don't know if AV has explained his suboptimal performance or not. I find it tough to fault the guy, though. To be his age and sprinting (even unsuccessfully!) for victory in L-B-L is non-trivial.

 

[Koronin]

Simultaneously annoying that Valverde didn't at least podium, but likewise deeply satisfying that he made the final selection and contested the sprint. I honestly haven't read any coverage of the race or your previous posts, so I don't know if AV has explained his suboptimal performance or not. I find it tough to fault the guy, though. To be his age and sprinting (even unsuccessfully!) for victory in L-B-L is non-trivial.

He was not happy that he didn't get on the podium and said it's because the others forced him to lead out the sprint.

 

[Fernandez]

His worst result this week was a 5th!!!
Thats some crazy stuff. He was the oldest in the three races.
Still, I think he should retire at the end of the year.

 

[tobydawq]

His worst result this week was a 5th!!!
Thats some crazy stuff. He was the oldest in the three races.
Still, I think he should retire at the end of the year.

I don't know if I agree with that. Sure, if his level was the same as in 2020, there wouldn't be much need to ride around in the races but when he can perform like he has now, I say go for it if he so wishes.

I don't really believe in ending your career at the top, it seems like a waste of opportunity.

 

[joe_papp]

...I don't really believe in ending your career at the top, it seems like a waste of opportunity.

Right! Just look at Froome! Brilliant that he's found someone to pay him presumably a lot of money to continue not winning.

From my selfish perspective, the only thing I wouldn't want to see w/ Valverde is that he do a Vainšteins and continue to race while looking embarrassing on the bike.

 

[Koronin]

Right! Just look at Froome! Brilliant that he's found someone to pay him presumably a lot of money to continue not winning.

From my selfish perspective, the only thing I wouldn't want to see w/ Valverde is that he do a Vainšteins and continue to race while looking embarrassing on the bike.

I don't think we have to worry about that with Valverde. He made up his mind to retire this year because of how badly he was racing last year. The reason he's rethinking that and pushing the door open to one more year is because he's racing better. Although part of it also appears that he wants the fans back on the side of the road for his final season as well. However, if this season was a repeat of last season he wouldn't be rethinking the retire at the end of the year thing.

 

[Blanco]

Really good Ardennes campaigne for Bala, I think nobody expected this couple of moths ago... It left a bittersweet taste though, cause some of his tactical mistakes .Maybe he could've been even better, although to win I still think he's missing a tiny bit. Couple of guys were stronger. Let's hope his second part of the season would be even better, and I really want to see that Olympic medal on his chests, not necessary gold...

 

[Asero831]

He is going to the Tour afterall.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

So the team are gonna drag his ass around France for another top 10, poor lads.

 

[Pinot's goat]

He will be working for Mas and Lopez, it is Tokyo prep for him.

 

[Fantastico]

He is going to the Tour afterall.

Oh no