Hindsight 20/20, where did Andy lose it?

[yourwelcome]

I see this as a massive failure on Leopard Trek management. What idiots for not reconning the course when its the weakness of your primary riders. Probably showed in Cancellara's poor rides too.

I'd love to know whether there's any good reason they didn't recon... because it does look like overconfidence.

But let's face it, it would not have affected the outcome anyway. Evans was too strong, and arguably the BMC team guys came through better than expected.

 

[palmerq]

It looked to me like andy was not in as good condition this year as the last couple(for whatever reason), so I would say he lost it before it started(voted time trial btw) I think he is usually stronger in the mountains and he looked exhausted at the end of most stages, I dont think he recovered too well either. No need for him to panic though he has beaten evans before in my opinion he just needs to prepare a bit better and work on the time trials and he can win a tour in the future.

 

[Jeanne]

It was a total failure that came from arrogance, overconfidence, and stupidity. He did not even recon the ITT. Without the crashes that took out the other contenders, Andy would have struggled to get on the podium.

unfortunately he only seemed to realise that before thursdays stage. No idea whether he did not have the strength or will to do something before, or whether he really was overconfident.

 

[palmerq]

I'd love to know whether there's any good reason they didn't recon... because it does look like overconfidence.

I think they did, in the race thread someone posted a quote from some news guy saying that they did, but I don't think it would have helped them he did not have the strength today and evans was world class.

 

[rides like a girl]

I voted for the first one. I think that first failure made the next failures a bit bigger than they should have been.

Watching Versus, they kept saying Andy knew the race would come down to the Alps...and he did so well in the Alps..Fail Versus Fail...By just trying to win it in the Alps he lost yellow.

They should have gone all out in the Pyrenees. It would have put the nail in AC's casket early. AC was allowed to lurk and take Andy's attention. AC is Andy's obsession. AC was allowed to hang around and cause Andy to chase him needlessly on Friday. By failing to get more time on Cadel in the Pyrenees, Cadel was always within range. Not chasing Tommy V or really doing the one-two to Tommy V made it such that Andy had to do his run across the mountain stage alone.

Leopard Trek should have seen that any opportunity to make diesels work, increases the chances they will fail somewhere. They failed to do anything in the first mountain stages. Wrongly too focused on AC. That caused all the other miscues to magnify.

I agree that Andy seemed to think the race was owed to him. If he cannot win with the situation he was in, favorable course and lack of in form contenders. Not sure when he will win.

 

[Kvinto]

imo Schlecks got a bit carried away after Luz Ardiden stage (where Frankie gain some 20 seconds over Evans), they became too self-confident to think that Alps should be enough to win the Tour

 

[Mellow Velo]

Yes, Cadel won it and was simply miles stronger than the rest.
I can't see any single poll option that could have given Andy a further 2 minutes on the GC.

Doesn't stop one wondering about some of his tactical choices, though.

I was particularly mystified yesterday, when he went haring off after Contador, on the Telegraphe. Why chase a guy who posed little threat, the day after you have solo'd 60kms up two further, huge mountains?
A massive tactical blunder, imo.

Clearly, even after what Cadel had done in the Galibier chase, Andy still hadn't registered the fact that he was watching the pink elephant in the room........instead of the real one.

 

[Granville57]

He obviously tanked his iTT but I think the real game-changer was the unexpected hurt that Contador put on the field yesterday on the way to Alpe d'Huez.

Andy wasn't left with enough in his legs.

Cadel rode smart and strong from day one. The right man won today.

 

[Granville57]

I was particularly mystified yesterday, when he went haring off after Contador, on the Telegraphe. Why chase a guy who posed little threat, the day after you have solo'd 60kms up two further, huge mountains? A massive tactical blunder, imo.
...
Andy still hadn't registered the fact that he was watching the pink elephant in the room........instead of the real one.

Add to that how closely Frank was marking Contador throughout the Galibier stage, and it shows just how much the brothers feared Contador, even in his slightly weakened condition.

 

[erader]

no time trial. AS isn't a complete rider. cadel put the wood to him in the final TT.

erader

 

[Tank Engine]

In all, I think that Cadel was just that bit better than him. For Andy to have ridden a perfect tour, he should have put in a couple of decent attacks on the road to the Plateau (although Cadel also looked strong maybe he wouldn't have gained much more on Evans than two seconds, but he probably would have put time on Bertie which is always a good thing) and improve his descending (although when you are built like a preying mantis that is always going to be a weak spot). After that he was playing catch up, so I went for 1 and 2.

 

[BillytheKid]

He never got any real time in the Pyrenees. Lost time going into Gap. Took a huge gamble and a great win at the top of the Galibier, but fail to mass the time needed over Evans. Or simply, can't TT. That's always a must.

 

[rzombie1988]

It's the TT. He just doesn't have the skills and doesn't seem to be focusing on them seriously enough. Say what you will, but he's now lost two tours on TT's. This tour was absolutely perfect for him and he still couldn't do it, so without improving on his TT skills, I don't see how he ever will. I'd like to say there's next year, but, I could see someone else(maybe Menchov) doing it to him if Contador isn't there. I think that Andy is also missing that killer instinct to go take the win.

Tactically, I think it was smart to mark Contador early on, but it should not have continued to Huez. I think

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Andy lost time in the hills. Andy didn't use the pyrenees. Andy descended like an old lady into gap.

And above all, Andy wasn't strong enough to drop Evans on the climbs anyway. In the Galibier he was strong and due to a stronger team he could escape (evans thought it was too far and thought his team was stronger than it was). If Andy didn't have his team he probably wouldn't gain a second on Evans in the mountains at all.
So..Evans was the strongest.

I think Andy won't get a better chance in years. He had the best team, the course fitted to him, no 100% Contador, and still came up short..

 

[etymology]

first and foremost, cadel *won*. period. full stop. end of story.

hindsight is 20/20, as in "could have gained 20 seconds here, could have gained 20 seconds there.

his attack from 60km out and subsequent stage win on galibier was awesome - he rode like a champion that day. unfortunately for andy, racing like a champion for one day on one stage does not a champion make.

i thought and still think it curious that on the stage to galibier, there was no organized chase in the valley leading to the final climb. the chase did not happen until the climb of galibier. when the chase did happen, it was all evans, all the time.

that is quite a stark contrast to contador's audacious attack in the alp d huez stage. *why* andy chose to go with him is beyond me, particularly given his spectacular performance/energy spent in the previous day's stage.

the way i saw it, there was a real urgency in the chase to reel in contador before the start of the final climb, then for whatever reason, no reaction when contador attacked at the 12k mark. if nothing else, andy had to have known that at some point of the alp, he had to attack to gain more time over evans...or he is so delusional, so full of false bravado, that he actually believed that if he finished the stage with evans, the time he had over evans was enough going intotoday's time trial.

then again....it is easy for me to spout all of these conjectures because all i needed to do was sit at home and watch things unfold.

in my bloated *opinion*, andy will never win a tour unless or until he develops the heart and mind of a champion.

 

[uphillstruggle]

AS isn't a complete rider.
erader

AS is one of the most one dimensional riders in the peloton. He is a amazing climber but he can't descend, can't handle a bike well, can't sprint, can't TT. Thinking about it he isn't very good on short sharp hills either. Just big mountains.

 

[turtlesoup]

He should have tested the other riders more in the Pyrenees. He should have forced the tempo and dropped the yellow jersey onto cadel and made him defend it. Andy is too concerned about Frank making it as well. If Frank would just ride as a super domestique instead of coleader Andy would win the tour.

 

[thehog]

Agreed. The stage win he and Leopard talked of it being a race winning move. That's what I never understood about the boy. There didn't appear to be a gameplan. It was all based around what Alberto did. When Contador lost time on stage 1 it was the worst possible scenario for Andy. He needed Contador close so he could distance the field following him. That was his thinking. It appears he never thought about anyone else or that Cadel could actually win it.

first and foremost, cadel *won*. period. full stop. end of story.

hindsight is 20/20, as in "could have gained 20 seconds here, could have gained 20 seconds there.

his attack from 60km out and subsequent stage win on galibier was awesome - he rode like a champion that day. unfortunately for andy, racing like a champion for one day on one stage does not a champion make.

i thought and still think it curious that on the stage to galibier, there was no organized chase in the valley leading to the final climb. the chase did not happen until the climb of galibier. when the chase did happen, it was all evans, all the time.

that is quite a stark contrast to contador's audacious attack in the alp d huez stage. *why* andy chose to go with him is beyond me, particularly given his spectacular performance/energy spent in the previous day's stage.

the way i saw it, there was a real urgency in the chase to reel in contador before the start of the final climb, then for whatever reason, no reaction when contador attacked at the 12k mark. if nothing else, andy had to have known that at some point of the alp, he had to attack to gain more time over evans...or he is so delusional, so full of false bravado, that he actually believed that if he finished the stage with evans, the time he had over evans was enough going intotoday's time trial.

then again....it is easy for me to spout all of these conjectures because all i needed to do was sit at home and watch things unfold.

in my bloated *opinion*, andy will never win a tour unless or until he develops the heart and mind of a champion.

 

[The Hitch]

He didnt lose it into Gap because without Gap he wouldnt have been let go on Iozard.

AS is one of the most one dimensional riders in the peloton. He is a amazing climber but he can't descend, can't handle a bike well, can't sprint, can't TT. Thinking about it he isn't very good on short sharp hills either. Just big mountains.

Well hes good in Liege.

 

[Frank Tuesday]

I voted ITT, but I think he lost it last year. The reason is that he appeared to think that he didn't need much of a gap going into the ITT. Andy mistook Contador's relatively poor performance last year in the final ITT as himself being good enough in the ITT. If he was as good in the ITT as he seemed to think he was, he would have won. He didn't bother to take time out in the Pyrenees. He didn't put in to much effort on the Alpe. He really only took time on the Galibier. Many opportunities and he only took one because he thought is was enough. What cost Andy the Tour? Hubris.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

AS is one of the most one dimensional riders in the peloton. He is a amazing climber but he can't descend, can't handle a bike well, can't sprint, can't TT. Thinking about it he isn't very good on short sharp hills either. Just big mountains.

Still better at hills and ITT than for instance Basso. And even Basso managed to win a few Giri.

Andy Schleck has 4 second places in a GT now. As much as I dislike him, being one-dimensional doesn't mean you can't win a GT or the Tour.

 

[thehog]

Still better at hills and ITT than for instance Basso. And even Basso managed to win a few Giri.

Andy Schleck has 4 second places in a GT now. As much as I dislike him, being one-dimensional doesn't mean you can't win a GT or the Tour.

Andy can with a GT for sure. That why everyone wants to kick him. Because he's so darn talented but doesn't use his head. Even us armchair critics can see where he's going wrong. The guy was set up so well in week 1 by Cancellera but he didn't capitalise. Those nervous stop start attacks are telling. Losing 8 seconds to Cadel in week one and another minute on the downhill into Gap could have been erased by racing smart. Couple that with one serious attack in the Pyrenees and he would have come close to winning.

 

[Carols]

It was a total failure that came from arrogance, overconfidence, and stupidity. He did not even recon the ITT. Without the crashes that took out the other contenders, Andy would have struggled to get on the podium.

I vote for this one.

Andy loses it in the pub when he should be out training.....

 

[hrotha]

Pff, don't be so anal retentive. Of course Cadel won fair and square. This poll is about what Schleck did wrong not to win, considering he was arguably the top favourite.

I'd say, 66% Pyrenees, 33% Gap. In hindsight he might have made a tactical mistake on the Galibier by following Contador, or maybe by not cooperating 100% in that break, but it was not a blunder either way, and on Alpe I think he simply couldn't do better. As for the ITT, well, look at his placing - he didn't do bad for his skills. That's why he should have been more aggressive in the Pyrenees. It's basically the same mistake he made last year (trying to do everything in a single stage, with a single attack, instead of gaining time where he can when the occasion arises), and the worst thing he learned from Riis. Fortunately for Contador, he's had other DS's and he has a stronger personality to know better.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

The Frank and Contador problems.

AS wants to cross the line holding hands with his brother. All their post race statements are about how great it is that they are both on the podium etc etc

Until AS realises that Frank isn't that good and rides for himself then he is never going to wear yellow.

Second problem is that he spent too much time watching Contador like a deer in the headlights.

Both of these issues are mental.