Hindsight 20/20, where did Andy lose it?

[rgmerk]

Why isn't Andy's TT better?

If Andy was 52 kg and 160 cm tall, I could understand why he can climb with the best but can't TT with the best.

I gather he is a tad lighter than Evans (who actually has a pretty high BMI for a GT GC rider) but is marginally heavier than Contador. So he must be putting out very close to the same wattage as those two on the climbs to match them.

And I don't think Andy lacks the capacity to suffer by himself, either, given his efforts on the Galibier in stage 18.

I don't see how the clinic can explain the differences either.

So if he can match his rivals watt-for-watt on the climbs, why can't he do so on the flat?

Is he just fundamentally less flexible than Evans and Contador, and thus forced to adopt an inferior ITT position? Or does he have (in relative terms) breathing difficulties in a TT tuck?

 

[yourwelcome]

Is there a possiblitiy that it is because Andy has had things happen too easily? He's a great hill climbing talent, but he has been praised to the hilt (people's champion blah blah). Has he believed the back slappers?

Yes - I think you could argue that Andy's incredibly climbing talents gave him so much success at a young age that it perhaps understandably blinded him to the need to work on becoming a more 'complete' rider.

Let's not forget he's virtually a kid still. He'll grow older stronger and wiser, but I'm not sure if running his own team will provide him with the mentoring he probably needs.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He didn't lose it, he simply never had it.

 

[Rouetheday]

Evidently, he lost it by not inviting Moser to the race a week earlier. He should have attacked hard on the Tourmalet as there's no flat between it and the start to Luz Ardiden to lose any gains. And I don't understand people who say the last climb wasn't tough enough to make a difference; just look at Armstrong in '03 and Lemond and Indurain in '90.

 

[greenedge]

All of them except for the Galibier. ( Though he might have blown Cadel if he attacked a few times instead of turning it into a chase ) Same with Alpe D Huez except that he gained no time then. Andy will definetly win at least once.

I think the main point was in the Pyrennes where he could not gain much time. That must have dented some confidence. Still he rode magnifecently to finish 2nd if we consider all these flaws.

 

[ProfTournesol]

Andy lost it well before the Tour even started by taking on the burden of running his own team, and his Xmas excesses. He was 'behind the 8 ball' all season trying to catch up. Doing the Tour de Suisse in preference to the Dauphine made no sense at all and he paid the price. Trying the same old double act of the Frandy show had reached it's use by date as they really couldn't use it to good effect on Evans, Contador and Voeckler.

His tactics in the Alps and S1's tactics on Tourmalet played to Cadel's strengths rather than his weaknesses, solo attacks look good on TV but they allowed Cadel to respond with a steady tempo ride over the climb, just what he is very good at, rather than riding with him and asking Cadel to respond to frequent changes of pace. Bizarre tactics really.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I read somewhere that Andy actuall didn't even ride the whole course in the morning. He only did part of the course and did the rest in the car.

He never actually rode over the course before the ITT.

 

[Jeanne]

I read somewhere that Andy actuall didn't even ride the whole course in the morning. He only did part of the course and did the rest in the car.

He never actually rode over the course before the ITT.

I heard that too. It was even said they had no time to check out the course at all. Dunno what's true. This was also used as explanation why Cance did not do as good as expected.

 

[Punter]

He didn't lose it, Cadel won it. He descent in the Gap was woeful but without it he still would've finished second. Maybe he didn't make the most of the Pyrenees but Evans looked just as strong there.

So I'm not voting. Evans was just too strong.

Agree given he was weaker in the ITT he had to ride Evans off his wheel at some point - he could not do this (credit to him for his attack on stage 18 though, was part of what made this a great Tour to watch - in my opinion of course)

 

[Special_oz_ed]

Schleck lost it during the ITT. As others have mentioned, the lack of a recon of the course was cavalier, bordering on plain nuts.

Plus, Schleck simply needs more work in this discipline. He's getting better, but still not good enough. He needs to be in the upper parts of the Top 10 to win a Tour. Alternatively, he needs at least 3 mins lead from the mountains stages.

 

[simoni]

1) Too passive in the Pyrenees
2) The descent into Gap?
3) Burnt too many matches to win on the Galibier?
4) The Alpe d'Huez stage?
5) The ITT?

Discuss

And I added a poll.

What about "too obsessed with Contador?"

 

[Roninho]

What about "too obsessed with Contador?"

Imo that was part of option 1: to passive in the pyrenees.

As for the people who voted that he lost it in the ITT, imo even the people who expected Andy to not lose much time in the ITT knew that if he didn't had a great day he could easily lose more then a minute, because Andy simply isn't the TT-er that Evans (or Contador for that matter) is.

When you know you can only win time in the mountains imo you shouldn't ride passive in 2 mountain stages, gambling you can do it all in one or two mountain stages. It's like Cadel doing a ITT at 85% because there is still another one at the end of the TDF (yeah i know there was only one this year).

 

[Contre la montre]

Andy must be really really good; to fault in so many ways and still finish runner up...

 

[Catty69]

It's a simple answer. He lost it in the ITT. He was leading before it started and he wasn't at the finish. That's where he lost it. Easy.

 

[fatsprintking]

Surely it was his dads lack of faith that did him in the end?

I couldnt believe Andy and Frank in LBL. I kept thinking waiting for them to 1 - 2 Gilbert but they never did. They just rode in. I thought they would have learned a lot from this, but clearly they did not.

It was clear when Andy tried to get Evans to do the chasing on the Galibier that he had both underestimated Evans and in reality he had lost the tour.

Trying to intimidate Evans into doing the work??? You just realized that he had not read the play at all. He was trying to work on what he believd was Evans' mental fragility, when it was clear that Evans was in no way fragile.

I am sure Andy is not a bad guy, but it almost appears like he needs more life experience. Not riding the complete course for the time trial at all!!!! Come on Andy maybe it is time to grow up a bit.

 

[mickkk]

Tour de California, a race for pussies.

 

[greenedge]

Maybe it was his fathers distrust in him. He looked distraught before the start. Who was it that posted that list of DSs' posting who they thought would win the TDF and Nyggard/ Anderson did not choose Andy and Lelangue chose Evans??? That would have been a blow to Andy as well.

 

[cprior]

I am really curious: Does anybody know if they do live at their parents place? Or are there three "Schleck-addresses" in Letzebourg?

 

[uphillstruggle]

Still better at hills and ITT than for instance Basso. And even Basso managed to win a few Giri.

Andy Schleck has 4 second places in a GT now. As much as I dislike him, being one-dimensional doesn't mean you can't win a GT or the Tour.

Agreed but it does make it very difficult if you only have one weapon. Andy, to win the tour, must out climb all the other big guns consistently for three weeks. Not easy to do against the best riders in he world. A pure climber would find it much easier to win the Giro or Vuelta as the competition is generally of less quality. Basso won the giro by tempo riding every one off his wheel at some point over the three weeks, he just couldn't do that at the tour, which is why I think he will leave cycling never having won the big one (I would have said that about Evans three weeks ago so that shows how much I know).

Andy is not that much better of a climber than the other riders to win the tour. If AC is cleared I genuinely think Andy will never win the tour.

@ Hitch: Andy's performances at the Ardennes have always made me wonder why he struggles so much on climbs like the Mur de bretagne and Mende.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Andy lost it well before the Tour even started by taking on the burden of running his own team, and his Xmas excesses. He was 'behind the 8 ball' all season trying to catch up. Doing the Tour de Suisse in preference to the Dauphine made no sense at all and he paid the price. Trying the same old double act of the Frandy show had reached it's use by date as they really couldn't use it to good effect on Evans, Contador and Voeckler.

Andy never shows in many events other than the Ardennes and the Tour, so it was business as usual. He also always does the Tour de Suisse, instead of the Dauphiné. What's wrong with doing the Tour de Suisse as Tour prep? It's seen as one of the main Tour prep races, alongside the Dauphiné. It didn't do Cunego, Danielson or Rojas any harm to be racing in Switzerland, and both he and his brother ended up on the podium. Gesink and Rodríguez did it last year en route to the top 10.

 

[ManInFull]

He didn't lose it, Cadel won it. He descent in the Gap was woeful but without it he still would've finished second. Maybe he didn't make the most of the Pyrenees but Evans looked just as strong there.

So I'm not voting. Evans was just too strong.

Yes, Evans' winning move was his performance up Galibier. Andy had 4 minutes at the base and only won by 2 or so. That kept Evans in contention.

 

[Paco_P]

He has two technical deficiencies, at least relative to riders who win big tours - he's a bad descender and he's not a top tier time trialer. Evans and Contador, for example, are quite good at every aspect. That Schleck beat Contador anyway just shows that he's very good.

 

[El Pistolero]

He has two technical deficiencies, at least relative to riders who win big tours - he's a bad descender and he's not a top tier time trialer. Evans and Contador, for example, are quite good at every aspect. That Schleck beat Contador anyway just shows that he's very good.

After doing a hard Giro

And he still only won with a minute advantage if you don't count the TTT and the crash on stage 1.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Going slightly off topic for a moment. While Andy S may not actually have lost the Tour, Thomas Voeckler certainly lost a podium spot, by fighting on in the unequal fight to keep in yellow.
27 seconds lost on his Kamikaze descent into Pinerolo and then 2-25" lost to Frank, on the final ascent up the Alpe.
Without Pinerolo and with his 27 second gain in yesterday's ITT, he could have finished 1-46" down on the Alpe and still finished 3rd.

Killing himself on the Telegraphe/Galibier chase was the nail in his podium coffin.

If he had dropped back to the peloton and set Europcar to work alongside BMC.........


.......ah, the benefit of hindsight!

 

[El Pistolero]

Going slightly off topic for a moment. While Andy S may not actually have lost the Tour, Thomas Voeckler certainly lost a podium spot, by fighting on in the unequal fight to keep in yellow.
27 seconds lost on his Kamikaze descent into Pinerolo and then 2-25" lost to Frank, on the final ascent up the Alpe.
Without Pinerolo and with his 27 second gain in yesterday's ITT, he could have finished 1-46" down on the Alpe and still finished 3rd.

Killing himself on the Telegraphe/Galibier chase was the nail in his podium coffin.

If he had dropped back to the peloton and set Europcar to work alongside BMC.........


.......ah, the benefit of hindsight!

And the pleasure of Contador destroying everyone's hope except Cuddles

But Voeckler could definitely have podiumed. Why not even second place?