Horner Vents!

[Sophistic]

Contador did something along the lines of 6.8w/kg on the Etna for 7km.

Thats what he averaged for 3(!)km according to Dr.Ferrari.

 

[Angliru]

Rather than truly unappreciated, which I agree he was for ToC, isn't this evidence that Horner has been somewhat of a slacker for most of his career, only taking advantage of minor percentage of his true potential? I recall seeing him in the T-Mobile race that they used have in San Francisco years ago and his performance made the rest of the peloton look like Cat 5's, such was his superiority. I know that he made no efforts to hide his love for junk food as a regular part of his diet. I've always enjoyed watching him race but he has to be thinking that he wasted a large portion of his career racing domestically, not making the sacrifices necessary to be at his best so that he could have raced more in Europe and showing what he really could do.

I'd love to see what he can do as the protected rider for Radioshack at a grand tour, especially the Tour but I don't think it is likely to happen with Bruyneel who has already slotted Brajkovic as his next stage racing star.

 

[Angliru]

Yes.



Ten characters and all that.

Thanks for posting that Publicus. Good to see you back!

 

[zigmeister]

I like his comments. I mean, come on, Leipheimer is supposed to be in top form for this race, and he got dropped like a bad habit by Horner.

Then Schleck and the rest, not a chance.

Baldy should be real interesting.

Levi got dropped in all the climbs in last year's TDF. When Schleck and Contador would go, Levi would just end up in the 2nd/3rd group of riders. Still impressive, but he had no chance. Horner has been dragging Levi around on his wheel for awhile now. He finally said, screw it, I'm going, with Levi or not...and the answer was not. Enjoy the victory, the guy was just on fire yesterday.

By the way, how is Horner's TT skills? I'm not familiar. The TT and Baldy climb will really be the determining factor for the GC.

 

[Jancouver]

During the winter Chris is frequent on some of my local training rides here in San Diego and I can assure you that he is the most humble, no ego guy that you can find in the peloton. It is honor and privilege for me to sit on his wheel whenever I can. Go Chris!

 

[profff]

poulidor podiumed in the TdF at 40.
but he was winning at the top level even when he was very young.

horner went to france when he was 26 and he did really less than nothing.
very strange career, improving after 38.....

to easy to say that he was on junk food...
yesterday he spent 4 km on pedals, en danseuse, not even breathing one single second with open mouth, the face completely relaxed.
he looked to me like berzin or some guy from the glorious gewiss team..

first time i see him dropping everybody without even making an effort: astonishing, at 39 years.
obviously i should consider that the field at ToC is very weak and that all the top contenders ( like andy) are climbing keeping theyr eyes on the cardio...
but , since he was 36, the top climber of the world (AC) wasn't needed to drop horner...it was enough a 30 men peloton, like last year on the colma lombardia ...

better i go have a look at the clinic....oh, i forgot only the latins, italians , spanish, south americans cannot have an improvement like that at 39...

 

[cineteq]

I'd love to see what he can do as the protected rider for Radioshack at a grand tour, especially the Tour but I don't think it is likely to happen with Bruyneel who has already slotted Brajkovic as his next stage racing star.

Levi was supposed to be RS' protected rider for ToC. Hmm..maybe's that will be Bruyneel's hidden tactic.

 

[zigmeister]

Levi was supposed to be RS' protected rider for ToC. Hmm..maybe's that will be Bruyneel's hidden tactic.

Exactly. Levi is supposed to be peaked and top form for this race. But apparently Horner is clearly the better rider/climbing on the team.

I would like to be a fly on the wall in the team meetings/bus today and the next few days.

 

[Anonymous]

So Horner is the second best climber in the world, and according to the commentators last night Hesjedal considers himself the third best climber in the world.

so whos fourth

 

[Mambo95]

So Horner is the second best climber in the world, and according to the commentators last night Hesjedal considers himself the third best climber in the world.

so whos fourth

But Rujano thinks he's the third best (with Rodriguez in second)

 

[pmcg76]

Yeah, I really dont get this. I remember him in Europe first time around, seen him race in the US where he killed everyone, comes back to Europe where he proves to be quite good with Saunier Duval/Lotto but is now the 2nd best climber in the world at 39. Something dont add up here and thats not jealousy or whatever people like to sling for the doubters.

 

[*G*K*S*]

I like his comments. I mean, come on, Leipheimer is supposed to be in top form for this race, and he got dropped like a bad habit by Horner.

Then Schleck and the rest, not a chance.

Baldy should be real interesting.

Levi got dropped in all the climbs in last year's TDF. When Schleck and Contador would go, Levi would just end up in the 2nd/3rd group of riders. Still impressive, but he had no chance. Horner has been dragging Levi around on his wheel for awhile now. He finally said, screw it, I'm going, with Levi or not...and the answer was not. Enjoy the victory, the guy was just on fire yesterday.

By the way, how is Horner's TT skills? I'm not familiar. The TT and Baldy climb will really be the determining factor for the GC.

Good enough to finish in the top ten in Solvang. Last year he won a 22 km ITT at the Vuelta al Pais Vasco against the likes of Rogers, Sanchez, Wiggins, Kloden, and Pinotti.

 

[will10]

But Rujano thinks he's the third best (with Rodriguez in second)

But Rujano beat Rodriguez on Etna which catagorically makes Rujano the second best

 

[jaylew]

Pretty sure he's talking about with his current form. Anyway, if that's actually the case he should be at a different race right now.

 

[UpTheRoad]

Pretty sure he's talking about with his current form. Anyway, if that's actually the case he should be at a different race right now.

True. If his claims of being underappreciated, etc. are valid, the person underestimating him is Bruyneel. He is the one who is holding CH back, not the journalists, not the ATOC race organizers who didn't invite him as a featured rider in the presentation, etc.

If he is the climber he showed yesterday and has been that way for a while, the RS DSs and team management are to blame.

 

[Oldman]

C'mon, this has nothing to do with Lance.

I'm just looking at the hard cold facts.
Science and numbers.
Chris puts out more power.
Especially when adjusted for age.

Except now that Lance is off the stage he's not neutralizing more talented climbers. Considering Chris' prior charge of sheparding Contador through several stage races he has a better idea of capabilities than you or I. Would a prudent contender say this? No. Dumb pronounement and he should continue to ride like he has something to prove because Schleck in Cali is not the litmus test.

 

[Hitchey]

Chris was one of those guys that you knew was going to do great things on a bike from the first early days as a teenager, coming out to the local group rides and putting the hurt on much more experienced riders. There is a lot of natural talent there.

Chris came back from Europe and FDJ in the last 90's and was getting dropped at the bottom of climbs. That was during a time when epo use was perhaps at a peak with regards to such a large % of the peloton using it. The words out of his mouth at the time, right after coming back from Europe after FDJ, were that he was racing clean and that there was no way he could have kept up without being on the sauce-that and a little bit of a difficult adjustment to life in France.

Fast forward to racing in the US where he was the dominant rider for many years. The opportunity to ride for Saunier Duval came up due to contact with a staff member from the FDJ days, and off he went. His words upon returning to europe at the time was that it was a different scene and the pace was different. He thought he had a chance to get some results. The mountain finish he won at the TDS was a big break. His weight, body composition, as well as endurance has changed slowly but surely throughout the years, and that has contributed greatly to his progression in strength relative to the rest of the pro tour field.

But I believe that the major change that has had more of an effect on his results, as well as the results of many other riders the last few years more than anything else has been the reduced use of sauce in the rest of the peloton, at least with regards to the same "club" that has seemed to dominate the grand tours. Look at Popo getting dropped from the break a couple of days ago in the Giro. Look at Hincapie's results the last few years post discovery-among other ex postal/discovery riders. That crew used to ride the entire peloton almost off their wheels while sitting on the front of the pack almost the entire day and setting vicious tempo on the climbs. When you are supposed to be that good, at least on wheaties, you don't go from being that good to hammered in just a couple of years unless you stop riding. They were touted as potential TDF winners. Betsy Andreu, and one of her very interesting quotes was her question to Frankie about how in the world he paced LA up sestriere when he clearly was not capable of that based on past performance. It's just not the same anymore.

My impression is that the breakfast and dinner cocktails of years past has been forced to become merely quick swigs of a mini flask while in the maintenance closet, to force a metaphor. And my belief is that is the reason guys such as Ryder, who at many times a handful of years ago, looked as if he stood no chance of finishing within 10 min of the front pack on hard hilly days, seems to be getting better and better.
Yes, you might say that Horner is also in the same club, at least a continuation of the good ole boys, but he has not been in the inner circle of "that" club/team despite riding for the same structure for the last few years. There is a reason that despite his clearly better results than many other riders for many years who ended up on the cycling equivalent of the yankees, he didn't end up on postal and discovery. He beats to a different tune. If there's anyone who could be the real poster child for Lance's quotes of "I train harder", it's Chris. The guy loves to ride his bike and puts in big hours of training.

What's my point with all of this?

I'm just trying to put a little bit of perspective into the naysayers and doubters' minds about how those who have not done as well the past several years and might be riding quite well now, regardless of age, and why that may be the case without the instant suspicion of getting the special breakfast and vitamins. I'm a little tired of the instant suspicion cast on every rider who wins a race or does well.

"I don't believe it, yeah right, at 39 years old" blah blah blah

To get back onto the OP's venting topic, I'm a little disappointed that he went on and on about Levi being the team leader. That's clearly not the case. You don't ride away from your team leader. I guess he has learned a little bit more about how not to brutally tell it like it is, which is one of the qualities I've liked most about him.

 

[benpounder]

I'd love to see what he can do as the protected rider for Radioshack at a grand tour, especially the Tour but I don't think it is likely to happen with Bruyneel who has already slotted Brajkovic as his next stage racing star.

But without Lance, Bruyneel is far less constrained. Without Lance, Radio Shack wants exposure irrespective of who the rider(s) is/are. Janez may be the initial protected rider, but if Horner, Kloden or Leipheimer shines, then they will be the leader. I suspect TRS will be much more relaxed without the super-inflated egos of both Lance and Alberto.

 

[cineteq]

To get back onto the OP's venting topic, I'm a little disappointed that he went on and on about Levi being the team leader. That's clearly not the case. You don't ride away from your team leader. I guess he has learned a little bit more about how not to brutally tell it like it is, which is one of the qualities I've liked most about him.

It's just strategy...I want to see him riding away from Janez in TdF...Maybe that the way Brunyeel wants it to be...who knows...

PS: Great post, thanks

 

[Boeing]

and Kareem Abdul Jabar wants a statue

 

[avantage]

Don't forget he scored a dead ZERO on the UCI suspicion list last year before the Tour.

At the same time please note that Armstrong's layers always like to point out that their client was never tested positive and he is the most tested athlete in the world.


I hope he fails a test sooner than later.

 

[Oldman]

Chris was one of those guys that you knew was going to do great things on a bike from the first early days as a teenager, coming out to the local group rides and putting the hurt on much more experienced riders. There is a lot of natural talent there.

Chris came back from Europe and FDJ in the last 90's and was getting dropped at the bottom of climbs. That was during a time when epo use was perhaps at a peak with regards to such a large % of the peloton using it. The words out of his mouth at the time, right after coming back from Europe after FDJ, were that he was racing clean and that there was no way he could have kept up without being on the sauce-that and a little bit of a difficult adjustment to life in France.

Fast forward to racing in the US where he was the dominant rider for many years. The opportunity to ride for Saunier Duval came up due to contact with a staff member from the FDJ days, and off he went. His words upon returning to europe at the time was that it was a different scene and the pace was different. He thought he had a chance to get some results. The mountain finish he won at the TDS was a big break. His weight, body composition, as well as endurance has changed slowly but surely throughout the years, and that has contributed greatly to his progression in strength relative to the rest of the pro tour field.

But I believe that the major change that has had more of an effect on his results, as well as the results of many other riders the last few years more than anything else has been the reduced use of sauce in the rest of the peloton, at least with regards to the same "club" that has seemed to dominate the grand tours. Look at Popo getting dropped from the break a couple of days ago in the Giro. Look at Hincapie's results the last few years post discovery-among other ex postal/discovery riders. That crew used to ride the entire peloton almost off their wheels while sitting on the front of the pack almost the entire day and setting vicious tempo on the climbs. When you are supposed to be that good, at least on wheaties, you don't go from being that good to hammered in just a couple of years unless you stop riding. They were touted as potential TDF winners. Betsy Andreu, and one of her very interesting quotes was her question to Frankie about how in the world he paced LA up sestriere when he clearly was not capable of that based on past performance. It's just not the same anymore.

My impression is that the breakfast and dinner cocktails of years past has been forced to become merely quick swigs of a mini flask while in the maintenance closet, to force a metaphor. And my belief is that is the reason guys such as Ryder, who at many times a handful of years ago, looked as if he stood no chance of finishing within 10 min of the front pack on hard hilly days, seems to be getting better and better.
Yes, you might say that Horner is also in the same club, at least a continuation of the good ole boys, but he has not been in the inner circle of "that" club/team despite riding for the same structure for the last few years. There is a reason that despite his clearly better results than many other riders for many years who ended up on the cycling equivalent of the yankees, he didn't end up on postal and discovery. He beats to a different tune. If there's anyone who could be the real poster child for Lance's quotes of "I train harder", it's Chris. The guy loves to ride his bike and puts in big hours of training.

What's my point with all of this?

I'm just trying to put a little bit of perspective into the naysayers and doubters' minds about how those who have not done as well the past several years and might be riding quite well now, regardless of age, and why that may be the case without the instant suspicion of getting the special breakfast and vitamins. I'm a little tired of the instant suspicion cast on every rider who wins a race or does well.

"I don't believe it, yeah right, at 39 years old" blah blah blah

To get back onto the OP's venting topic, I'm a little disappointed that he went on and on about Levi being the team leader. That's clearly not the case. You don't ride away from your team leader. I guess he has learned a little bit more about how not to brutally tell it like it is, which is one of the qualities I've liked most about him.

You have hit the nail on the head. And the reason he wasn't allowed into that inner circle is that Lance and Chris Carmichael knew as far back as the first Olympic trials Chris competed in that he was naturally better. Much better as were several other riders. They manipulated the Continental pro scene to keep Chris in the back seat as much as possible and that's why he was left to struggle with FdJ.
As for your estimation of his current status and club participation; you are spot on. It is a more equalized circumstance and you are seeing the results of that parity. Note I said parity, not to be confused with purity. It is gratifying seeing him drop Levi and the other historic lesser lights of US Cycling. Hopefully he'll enjoy a good year and retire quietly rather than get drawn deeper into the drama whirlpool Lance has created because he deserves a better historic treatment than most.

 

[Boeing]

You have hit the nail on the head. And the reason he wasn't allowed into that inner circle is that Lance and Chris Carmichael knew as far back as the first Olympic trials Chris competed in that he was naturally better. Much better as were several other riders. They manipulated the Continental pro scene to keep Chris in the back seat as much as possible and that's why he was left to struggle with FdJ.
As for your estimation of his current status and club participation; you are spot on. It is a more equalized circumstance and you are seeing the results of that parity. Note I said parity, not to be confused with purity. It is gratifying seeing him drop Levi and the other historic lesser lights of US Cycling. Hopefully he'll enjoy a good year and retire quietly rather than get drawn deeper into the drama whirlpool Lance has created because he deserves a better historic treatment than most.

I am glad you guys are running with this. no one want to say it now still. pure fing politics

good work

 

[movingtarget]

Horner's comments about the non invitation to the press conference, I agree with. He deserved better. The way he climbed and put over a minute into some very good riders and made it look easy was very impressive. Let him brag a liitle, he must be sick of playing second or third fiddle. On the day, only someone like Contador would have kept up. I hope he can do a good time trial and win the overall. Good for him.

 

[Reverend_T_Preedy]

I shall reserve my comments on Horner to another part of this forum I think....................