Hot racing coming up in Australia

[Escarabajo]

Huh?

I exaggerated with half mark of course, that's why I put the laughing face. But I still prefer this race with warm weather at the beginning of the year to other races. In Australia they have enough cycling fan base and good cyclists to start building this race for the future. It is not a bad idea. You cannot just compare it with other ones with historic significance. It is just unfair. To me a significance of having a WT race now, besides its historic significance, is the fan base of the country. That is probably one of the biggest reasons why they created the WT in the first place. And of course so that they can make some money in the process. Otherwise why get out of Europe.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Outside of the classics and the three GT's this is one of the WT races that actually works - The race has been around for 19 years with the last 9 as a WT race - Financial stability, suitable parcours, full on media coverage and massive crowds - It's the template for a successful WT race.

This is a pretty depressing take on the race. It may well work as a commercial operation - which is probably what the UCI and the organisers are most interested in. But as a cycling fan i don't care about all the finances and the sideshow stuff - I care about it being a great sporting competition. And in that respect it is pretty awful. A glorified training ride. As a sporting competition it is worst of the World Tour races by a distance imo.

But I guess it just has to be bracketed alongside Abu Dhabi and the World Championships in Qatar as another example of the UCIs priorities nowdays.

No, this race doesn't come under the same bracket as Abu Dhabi or the Qatar Worlds. Why? Because there are fans here, and there is a very strong Aussie base for this race. Australia should have an inportant race, but because of how the world works, it has to be at the start of the season, effectively ruining it, as only Aussies really care about it. Perhaps if this race was shunted to the back end of the season, rather than the opener, then it may get a bigger, and better, field.

No I disagree. I think it should remain in the same spot on the calendar because all of the Australian races that matter fall into the same period and at the end of the season you have the Vuelta, The Worlds, Lombardy and the US and Canadian races. Some riders even finish their season before the Vuelta and the Worlds. It is in the right place on the calendar and there would be less motivation to do this type of race late in the season. This race leads into the European racing season and the races in the desert like the Tour of Dubai.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Outside of the classics and the three GT's this is one of the WT races that actually works - The race has been around for 19 years with the last 9 as a WT race - Financial stability, suitable parcours, full on media coverage and massive crowds - It's the template for a successful WT race.

This is a pretty depressing take on the race. It may well work as a commercial operation - which is probably what the UCI and the organisers are most interested in. But as a cycling fan i don't care about all the finances and the sideshow stuff - I care about it being a great sporting competition. And in that respect it is pretty awful. A glorified training ride. As a sporting competition it is worst of the World Tour races by a distance imo.

But I guess it just has to be bracketed alongside Abu Dhabi and the World Championships in Qatar as another example of the UCIs priorities nowdays.

No, this race doesn't come under the same bracket as Abu Dhabi or the Qatar Worlds. Why? Because there are fans here, and there is a very strong Aussie base for this race. Australia should have an inportant race, but because of how the world works, it has to be at the start of the season, effectively ruining it, as only Aussies really care about it. Perhaps if this race was shunted to the back end of the season, rather than the opener, then it may get a bigger, and better, field.

No I disagree. I think it should remain in the same spot on the calendar because all of the Australian races that matter fall into the same period and at the end of the season you have the Vuelta, The Worlds, Lombardy and the US and Canadian races. Some riders even finish their season before the Vuelta and the Worlds. It is in the right place on the calendar and there would be less motivation to do this type of race late in the season. This race leads into the European racing season and the races in the desert like the Tour of Dubai.

This. There's Bay Crits, Aus/NZ nationals, TDU, NZ Cycle Classic, Cuddles RR and the Herald-Sun Tour all within 5-6 weeks. This is all of the Australian and NZ UCI classified races in one block.

If South America had a long term, viable race and Langkawi and the Middle Eastern races were moved closer to the Aus/NZ races that would be a very handy mini - season, and possibly encourage more Asian teams to push for Pro Continental status, along with teams like IsoWhey. A calendar like that may have saved Drapac as well.

 

[The Hegelian]

I reckon the right analogy/comparison is with the new'ish Canadian one day races ~ there's little history (there was something in Montreal in the '90's right? Can't quite recall)....no one seriously equivocates them with the monuments or older one day races.....but in a short time they've made it interesting and valuable, there's good crowds and there's already a high class list of winners. It works. TDU is definitely going in the right direction. I used to agree with the critiques - it just looked like a backwater of a race - but it seems to be really genuinely evolving into something interesting.

In the end, true value comes only in time, and is especially connected to the quality of great names on the winners list. To get there, the parcours have to change to shift the balance more to GC riders. Or it could be pushed back a month or so - and made a harder test for classics riders like 3 days of Da Panne. if it was closer to MSR, it would be less about training and more about who's on form for that.

 

[Jancouver]

Re:

I reckon the right analogy/comparison is with the new'ish Canadian one day races ~ there's little history (there was something in Montreal in the '90's right? Can't quite recall)....no one seriously equivocates them with the monuments or older one day races.....but in a short time they've made it interesting and valuable, there's good crowds and there's already a high class list of winners. It works. TDU is definitely going in the right direction. I used to agree with the critiques - it just looked like a backwater of a race - but it seems to be really genuinely evolving into something interesting.

In the end, true value comes only in time, and is especially connected to the quality of great names on the winners list. To get there, the parcours have to change to shift the balance more to GC riders. Or it could be pushed back a month or so - and made a harder test for classics riders like 3 days of Da Panne. if it was closer to MSR, it would be less about training and more about who's on form for that.

Genuinely evolving? Are you kidding me?

It used to be a flat race. Then, they figured out that they have to add a bump otherwise those like Greipel will keep wining so they made it more suitable for Gerrans etc.

Now they felt sorry for the little midget as he was 2nd on two occasions, so they added one more bump to give Richie a better chance. Hurray!

Overall, the event organizers succeeded, and the Aussies won 7/9 last editions.

What a joke ...

 

[Pricey_sky]

Re: Re:

I reckon the right analogy/comparison is with the new'ish Canadian one day races ~ there's little history (there was something in Montreal in the '90's right? Can't quite recall)....no one seriously equivocates them with the monuments or older one day races.....but in a short time they've made it interesting and valuable, there's good crowds and there's already a high class list of winners. It works. TDU is definitely going in the right direction. I used to agree with the critiques - it just looked like a backwater of a race - but it seems to be really genuinely evolving into something interesting.

In the end, true value comes only in time, and is especially connected to the quality of great names on the winners list. To get there, the parcours have to change to shift the balance more to GC riders. Or it could be pushed back a month or so - and made a harder test for classics riders like 3 days of Da Panne. if it was closer to MSR, it would be less about training and more about who's on form for that.

Genuinely evolving? Are you kidding me?

It used to be a flat race. Then, they figured out that they have to add a bump otherwise those like Greipel will keep wining so they made it more suitable for Gerrans etc.

Now they felt sorry for the little midget as he was 2nd on two occasions, so they added one more bump to give Richie a better chance. Hurray!

Overall, the event organizers succeeded, and the Aussies won 7/9 last editions.

What a joke ...

Well the race is evolving, and it is more interesting now than it was years ago when just a sprint fest. Also just to add they didn't add the 2nd hill just for this year, they also raced it in 2015 I believe. So it's not like they've just plucked it from anywhere to give Porte the best chance. Porte was just in much better form this year than before.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

I reckon the right analogy/comparison is with the new'ish Canadian one day races ~ there's little history (there was something in Montreal in the '90's right? Can't quite recall)....no one seriously equivocates them with the monuments or older one day races.....but in a short time they've made it interesting and valuable, there's good crowds and there's already a high class list of winners. It works. TDU is definitely going in the right direction. I used to agree with the critiques - it just looked like a backwater of a race - but it seems to be really genuinely evolving into something interesting.

In the end, true value comes only in time, and is especially connected to the quality of great names on the winners list. To get there, the parcours have to change to shift the balance more to GC riders. Or it could be pushed back a month or so - and made a harder test for classics riders like 3 days of Da Panne. if it was closer to MSR, it would be less about training and more about who's on form for that.

Agreed. TdU works. And I appreciate that they've tweaked the parcours and will likely continue to do so. I really don't understand the complainers. It's well attended and riders like going there. I don't give a rats a$$ if most of the winners are Australian. Hell, some of the biggest races on the calendar have been dominated even more heavily by riders from the host country at times. Besides, it's not like scrubs are winning it - Porte is probably one of the top 5 non-GT stage race riders in the world. I'm glad it's solidified its place on the calendar, I'm glad its earned WT status and selfishly, I appreciate that we've got a WT race to watch in early January, whether all the riders are in top form or not.

And no, I'm not Australian.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

I reckon the right analogy/comparison is with the new'ish Canadian one day races ~ there's little history (there was something in Montreal in the '90's right? Can't quite recall)....no one seriously equivocates them with the monuments or older one day races.....but in a short time they've made it interesting and valuable, there's good crowds and there's already a high class list of winners. It works. TDU is definitely going in the right direction. I used to agree with the critiques - it just looked like a backwater of a race - but it seems to be really genuinely evolving into something interesting.

In the end, true value comes only in time, and is especially connected to the quality of great names on the winners list. To get there, the parcours have to change to shift the balance more to GC riders. Or it could be pushed back a month or so - and made a harder test for classics riders like 3 days of Da Panne. if it was closer to MSR, it would be less about training and more about who's on form for that.

Genuinely evolving? Are you kidding me?

It used to be a flat race. Then, they figured out that they have to add a bump otherwise those like Greipel will keep wining so they made it more suitable for Gerrans etc.

Now they felt sorry for the little midget as he was 2nd on two occasions, so they added one more bump to give Richie a better chance. Hurray!

So, you're denying it's evolved by citing examples of it's evolution. Ok...
Even if I bought your reasoning (which I don't) that that evolution was just so select Aussies could win, much more prestigious races have been catering parcours to home country riders for years.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I reckon the right analogy/comparison is with the new'ish Canadian one day races ~ there's little history (there was something in Montreal in the '90's right? Can't quite recall)....no one seriously equivocates them with the monuments or older one day races.....but in a short time they've made it interesting and valuable, there's good crowds and there's already a high class list of winners. It works. TDU is definitely going in the right direction. I used to agree with the critiques - it just looked like a backwater of a race - but it seems to be really genuinely evolving into something interesting.

In the end, true value comes only in time, and is especially connected to the quality of great names on the winners list. To get there, the parcours have to change to shift the balance more to GC riders. Or it could be pushed back a month or so - and made a harder test for classics riders like 3 days of Da Panne. if it was closer to MSR, it would be less about training and more about who's on form for that.

Genuinely evolving? Are you kidding me?

It used to be a flat race. Then, they figured out that they have to add a bump otherwise those like Greipel will keep wining so they made it more suitable for Gerrans etc.

Now they felt sorry for the little midget as he was 2nd on two occasions, so they added one more bump to give Richie a better chance. Hurray!

Overall, the event organizers succeeded, and the Aussies won 7/9 last editions.

What a joke ...

USA Pro Cycling Challenge : staged five times and won by American riders four times. The Tour of Utah : staged twelve times and won by Americans nine times. The Tour of California : staged eleven times and and won by Americans five times.

 

[CTQ]

Sam Bennett won the Criterium today, (Race Melbourne) 2nd, Danny Van Poppel, 3rd, Scott Sunderland.

 

[The Hegelian]

Australian cycling has also - simultaneously - evolved quite dramatically.

From virtually non-existent in Europe through much of the 20th century, to one champion in the 80's, to a few high quality sprinters/classics riders in the 90's, to a pretty solid mix of talent + Cadel in the 00's...to now where Australia has how many WT riders?? There's a lot, and a reasonable amount of talent.

Columbia is the only other place outside of Europe that can make genuine claims of being a powerhouse at WT level, alongside the historical powerhouses like Italy, Spain etc.

On that basis alone, seems justified to build up some good events and dish out some WT points there.

 

[StryderHells]

Re: Re:

I reckon the right analogy/comparison is with the new'ish Canadian one day races ~ there's little history (there was something in Montreal in the '90's right? Can't quite recall)....no one seriously equivocates them with the monuments or older one day races.....but in a short time they've made it interesting and valuable, there's good crowds and there's already a high class list of winners. It works. TDU is definitely going in the right direction. I used to agree with the critiques - it just looked like a backwater of a race - but it seems to be really genuinely evolving into something interesting.

In the end, true value comes only in time, and is especially connected to the quality of great names on the winners list. To get there, the parcours have to change to shift the balance more to GC riders. Or it could be pushed back a month or so - and made a harder test for classics riders like 3 days of Da Panne. if it was closer to MSR, it would be less about training and more about who's on form for that.

Genuinely evolving? Are you kidding me?

It used to be a flat race. Then, they figured out that they have to add a bump otherwise those like Greipel will keep wining so they made it more suitable for Gerrans etc.

Now they felt sorry for the little midget as he was 2nd on two occasions, so they added one more bump to give Richie a better chance. Hurray!

Overall, the event organizers succeeded, and the Aussies won 7/9 last editions.

What a joke ...

USA Pro Cycling Challenge : staged five times and won by American riders four times. The Tour of Utah : staged twelve times and won by Americans nine times. The Tour of California : staged eleven times and and won by Americans five times.

How about Pais Vasco, Spanish race and Spanish riders have won 8 of the 11 editions, the Giro has been won by Italian riders 15 out of the last 20 editions, these must be some of those joke races like the TDU

 

[CTQ]

While you discuss whether races in Australia should exist or not, there was a criterium today. Complete results here.http://www.cadelevansgreatoceanroadrace.com.au/race-melbourne/2017-results/

 

[claude cat]

1. 21 Sam BENNETT (BOH)
2. 116 Danny VAN POPPEL (SKY)
3. 181 Scott SUNDERLAND (IWS)
4. 127 Edward THEUNS (TFS)
5. 91 Caleb EWAN (ORS)
6. 47 Tyler FARRAR (DDD)
7. 101 Nikias ARNDT (SUN)
8. 35 Tom VAN ASBROECK (CDT)
9. 3 Matto MONTAGUTI (ALM)
10. 165 Travis MCCABE (UHC)

https://twitter.com/CadelRoadRace/status/824465733673451520

 

[claude cat]

Re:

Australian cycling has also - simultaneously - evolved quite dramatically.

From virtually non-existent in Europe through much of the 20th century, to one champion in the 80's, to a few high quality sprinters/classics riders in the 90's, to a pretty solid mix of talent + Cadel in the 00's...to now where Australia has how many WT riders?? There's a lot, and a reasonable amount of talent.

Columbia is the only other place outside of Europe that can make genuine claims of being a powerhouse at WT level, alongside the historical powerhouses like Italy, Spain etc.

On that basis alone, seems justified to build up some good events and dish out some WT points there.

Some people would be happy if WT events were held only in Europe (perhaps with a couple of Canadian events). They forget that cycling is a world wide sport.

 

[Jancouver]

Re:

While you discuss whether races in Australia should exist or not, there was a criterium today. Complete results here.http://www.cadelevansgreatoceanroadrace.com.au/race-melbourne/2017-results/

All the kidding aside, what is the purpose of these crits and why are WT teams participating since those are not UCI sanctioned races? As far as I know, the pro racers are not allowed in non-sanctioned "fun rides".

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

While you discuss whether races in Australia should exist or not, there was a criterium today. Complete results here.http://www.cadelevansgreatoceanroadrace.com.au/race-melbourne/2017-results/

All the kidding aside, what is the purpose of these crits and why are WT teams participating since those are not UCI sanctioned races? As far as I know, the pro racers are not allowed in non-sanctioned "fun rides".

Crits are fun. This one is attached to the Evans RR like the Cancer Council Classic is to the TDU.

Why does this annoy you so much?

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

1. 21 Sam BENNETT (BOH)
2. 116 Danny VAN POPPEL (SKY)
3. 181 Scott SUNDERLAND (IWS)
4. 127 Edward THEUNS (TFS)
5. 91 Caleb EWAN (ORS)
6. 47 Tyler FARRAR (DDD)
7. 101 Nikias ARNDT (SUN)
8. 35 Tom VAN ASBROECK (CDT)
9. 3 Matto MONTAGUTI (ALM)
10. 165 Travis MCCABE (UHC)

https://twitter.com/CadelRoadRace/status/824465733673451520

Oh thank God an Australian didn't win.................

 

[RedheadDane]

Re: Re:

1. 21 Sam BENNETT (BOH)
2. 116 Danny VAN POPPEL (SKY)
3. 181 Scott SUNDERLAND (IWS)
4. 127 Edward THEUNS (TFS)
5. 91 Caleb EWAN (ORS)
6. 47 Tyler FARRAR (DDD)
7. 101 Nikias ARNDT (SUN)
8. 35 Tom VAN ASBROECK (CDT)
9. 3 Matto MONTAGUTI (ALM)
10. 165 Travis MCCABE (UHC)

https://twitter.com/CadelRoadRace/status/824465733673451520

Oh thank God an Australian didn't win.................

In fact only two Aussies in the top-10.

 

[yaco]

And the 2016 Cadel Evans RR and Sun Tour were won by Non-Australians, and most likely the same in 2017.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Now it's supposed to be a bad thing somehow that the two bigger Australian races have linked city centre crits with good crowds and good fields? I really don't understand some of you guys at all.

The complaining about the Australian mini season at the start of the year is just bizarre. No they aren't the most prestigious races in the world and yes the riders form is very uneven, but it's January for God's sake. The Australians turn out in big numbers and it's a good thing that a country where it's harder for fans to see most of the big races either in person or live on TV gets to see the WT pros.

It's not as if there's anything more important going on at this time of the year that the riders are being distracted from. And it certainly isn't as if the other start of season races offer something better. I'd rather watch Ewan, Sagan, Bennet, Van Poppel etc do their thing than see Quick Step dunking on nobodies like they are the Harlem Globetrotters, or Greipel club a field of non sprinters like baby seals.

 

[johnymax]

Re: Re:

Now it's supposed to be a bad thing somehow that the two bigger Australian races have linked city centre crits with good crowds and good fields? I really don't understand some of you guys at all.

The complaining about the Australian mini season at the start of the year is just bizarre. No they aren't the most prestigious races in the world and yes the riders form is very uneven, but it's January for God's sake. The Australians turn out in big numbers and it's a good thing that a country where it's harder for fans to see most of the big races either in person or live on TV gets to see the WT pros.

It's not as if there's anything more important going on at this time of the year that the riders are being distracted from. And it certainly isn't as if the other start of season races offer something better. I'd rather watch Ewan, Sagan, Bennet, Van Poppel etc do their thing than see Quick Step dunking on nobodies like they are the Harlem Globetrotters, or Greipel club a field of non sprinters like baby seals.

Good post. I agree with you.

 

[movingtarget]

Another take on the TDU

http://www.velonews.com/2017/01/news/5-reasons-pros-love-tour_429492

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Re: Re:

While you discuss whether races in Australia should exist or not, there was a criterium today. Complete results here.http://www.cadelevansgreatoceanroadrace.com.au/race-melbourne/2017-results/

All the kidding aside, what is the purpose of these crits and why are WT teams participating since those are not UCI sanctioned races? As far as I know, the pro racers are not allowed in non-sanctioned "fun rides".

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/12/cadels-race-gets-curtain-raiser-crit-on-melbournes-albert-park-f1-circuit/

 

[Jancouver]

"Just as the People’s Choice Classic criterium serves as a non-UCI-classified curtain-raiser to the Santos Tour Down Under, so Race Melbourne will be a non-UCI-classified curtain-raiser for Cadel’s Race. And just as the same teams that race the Tour Down Under are obliged to take part in the People’s Choice Classic, so the teams of Cadel’s Race will take part in Race Melbourne."

Again, the teams are OBLIGATED to participate. What a pure BS! Riders risking their health for some fu..ing parade ride that does not count for anything.

How are the Aussies even able to get this accomplished when by the UCI rules, the WT riders are not allowed to do any unsanctioned races?

The UCI is the most corrupt organization and way worst than all the Russian organized doping etc.